Pros and Cons to California seceding from the USA?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Perjury
let them go on their own! see how far they get

CA is not seceding - - any time soon.

However, CA does have many natural resources of its own.

And Desalination plants are on the menu.

Question is: could your own state be able to stand alone?

Other states are not the topic.

Yes California has plentiful resources, and a bunch of loony enviro-hippies that squawk at the thought of using them.

Do you live here? Have you lived here?

If other states are not the topic - - - then those in other states, who have no clue, should keep their mouths shut.

An emotional reaction on Twitter - - - is an emotional reaction on Twitter.

There is no serious move for CA to secede.

I see you responding to plenty of topics that I'm sure you have no real expertise in or with, so let's stop with the appeal to authority.

Other people from other states can respond to this because if CA decides they want out, it will impact all the rest of us and CA. In that sense, we are all entitled to an opinion on it.

But other states and whether or not they could make it as independent nations are irrelevant to the topic because no one is discussing that. Only really Cali is pondering this move in any serious manner due to drive by tech billionaires.

originally posted by: Annee
Do you live here? Have you lived here?

No, and God willing I never will have to entertain the thought.

If other states are not the topic - - - then those in other states, who have no clue, should keep their mouths shut.

An emotional reaction on Twitter - - - is an emotional reaction on Twitter.

There is no serious move for CA to secede.

If you don't like the topic, you don't have to participate.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Perjury
let them go on their own! see how far they get

CA is not seceding - - any time soon.

However, CA does have many natural resources of its own.

And Desalination plants are on the menu.

Question is: could your own state be able to stand alone?

Other states are not the topic.

Yes California has plentiful resources, and a bunch of loony enviro-hippies that squawk at the thought of using them.

Do you live here? Have you lived here?

If other states are not the topic - - - then those in other states, who have no clue, should keep their mouths shut.

An emotional reaction on Twitter - - - is an emotional reaction on Twitter.

There is no serious move for CA to secede.

I see you responding to plenty of topics that I'm sure you have no real expertise in or with, so let's stop with the appeal to authority.

Why bother trying to make a post to increase conversation,.

Won't make that mistake again.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: ketsuko

Unless it passes unanimously there will be American citizens in California being deprived of their privledges and immunities.

Edit to add that I don't agree with the amendment, just pointing out what it says

Y aknow... if a ruling is ruled unjust the amendment it based on has no power and does not need repealing does it? lets ask Donald to get a new decision on it when he gets his supreme court.

Anyone seriously considering alternative configurations of nationhood where the USA currently exists should revisit the short-lived television series "Jericho". In short, (1) nuke the major cities, (2) explode EMP bombs over the nation, (3) then carve up the carcass of the USA into portions that could function "post-USA".

Short of such a nearly apocalyptic scenario I find it impossible to consider the secession of California because once a state decides to secede then cities and counties decide to secede from said state.

Of course, the whole game changes if a new amendment to the USA's Constitution is ratified that allows for a mechanism permitting the peaceful secession of a state and the handing over of federal institutions and bases in such a state to the new nation. Such an amendment can certainly be crafted, and by its ratification could nullify claims regarding provisions of the 14th Amendment.

a reply to: Annee

Is that why you told people that if they didn't live in Cali they should have no opinion?

I fail to see how that increases conversation on the topic. It is an attempt to deflect from it though.

a reply to: Kapriti

By the same token, a rural/urban civil war that wasn't won very quickly by the urbanites would be short-lived.

Rural folks have the resources and can choke the urban centers very easily if they can withstand the first onslaught by the urbanites.

That is, of course, dependent on which side and how many the armed services fall out on.

First if calif left people on veteran benefits would lose there VA hospitals and in some cases the disability checks.

People nearing 65 may lose part or all of there social security benefits.

People in calif would lose there constitutional rights and only have the right the new government gives them.
The calif lefties don't believe in the rights of the constitution.
Forget guns there would be a complete gun ban because the new county of calif would not have a military and have a budding insurection on there hands as the republicians tried to take back there parts of the state into the US.

2/3s of the counties in calif vote republician and would break away from the new county of calif.
and they control 95+% of the water and electric sources in the state.

Taxes will skyrocket in the new country of calif as the US government leaves with there employees and many people leave calif.
Manufacturing will drop as companies leave and head to cheaper tax havens in the US.
Cars will almost Double in price because of regulations.
Most people will be forced to use public transportation because they can no longer afford car.
And you will likely over about 10to 20 years end up with no middle class.
You will end up with poor working class and a elite class.

Then you will have passport control to enter or leave calif to visit friends in the US.
And calif will become a third world country after the first major earthquake.

Anyone with a different view is welcome to prove me wrong but have good Evidence why i am wrong.

originally posted by: ANNED
First if calif left people on veteran benefits would lose there VA hospitals and in some cases the disability checks.

People nearing 65 may lose part or all of there social security benefits.

People in calif would lose there constitutional rights and only have the right the new government gives them.
The calif lefties don't believe in the rights of the constitution.
Forget guns there would be a complete gun ban because the new county of calif would not have a military and have a budding insurection on there hands as the republicians tried to take back there parts of the state into the US.

2/3s of the counties in calif vote republician and would break away from the new county of calif.
and they control 95+% of the water and electric sources in the state.

Taxes will skyrocket in the new country of calif as the US government leaves with there employees and many people leave calif.
Manufacturing will drop as companies leave and head to cheaper tax havens in the US.
Cars will almost Double in price because of regulations.
Most people will be forced to use public transportation because they can no longer afford car.
And you will likely over about 10to 20 years end up with no middle class.
You will end up with poor working class and a elite class.

Then you will have passport control to enter or leave calif to visit friends in the US.
And calif will become a third world country after the first major earthquake.

Anyone with a different view is welcome to prove me wrong but have good Evidence why i am wrong.

No, I think you made some good points. I think there would be a mass exodus of citizens seeking other places to live, as well as a mass migration of people seeking to get away from the USA.

You guys are funny regarding California leaving the union.

California has oil, it has farming, it has commodities of all kinds, it has 2 universities in the top 10 and about 5 other universities in the top 30. Sillicon Valley and Sillicon Beach are the biggest job creators of high tech-cutting edge jobs in the world. CA will always get its cream of the crop globally to work for its corporations.

While states have to revert to tax gimmicks (such as Texas) to draw people to that sh it hole (except for Austin) of a state, Califronia stands on it own in terms of drawing corporations (despite our taxes) into our beautiful state.

Let's face it, the rust belt and the south are consummate dead weight. The highest percentage of people on welfare live in these states, especially the south. CA will not have to pay for these folks anymore and focus their taxes on improving CA.

There are a 1000 other reasons why CA would thrive on its own and leaving would cripple the country; but the most important asset that CA has is its employment force.

CA draws the best from all over the world and also attracts immigrants who are hungry to work and create a better life for themselves. The rust belt and the south are the way they are for a reason. Not only is weather horrible for most of the year in these states, the work force is terrible there too. People generally are not motivated in these states (there are always exceptions, but the general population is garbage in these states). There are too many from these states that are too entitled and not willing to do the dirty work to improve their situations. Most just simply do not want to work and not willing to start from the bottom and work themselves up the food chain.

Not that it would happen, but if CA ever left the union, trust me, CA would be fine.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Texas V White has got to be the most scary ruling in the history of the USA. What basically occured is that the idea of a indisolvable and perpetual union was created out of thin air by 5 SCOTUS Justices, even though nothing in the Constitution or any writings of the Founders said anything of the sort. It was a 5-3 decision. The 5 in favor? All appointed by King Lincoln, including a former member of his cabinet. It was the true definition of a Kangaroo Court.

But it is the Law of the Land Now . The Union Must Survive .

I'm sure the U.S. Economy would feel no effects whatsoever by letting the world's 6th largest economy just secede from the union.

a reply to: SeekingAlpha

You guys are funny regarding California leaving the union.

California has oil, it has farming, it has commodities of all kinds, it has 2 universities in the top 10 and about 5 other universities in the top 30. Sillicon Valley and Sillicon Beach are the biggest job creators of high tech-cutting edge jobs in the world. CA will always get its cream of the crop globally to work for its corporations.


It does Lack One Certain Vital Resource that it cannot Survive Without , Enough Fresh Water to Support it's People . It would Wither and Die Without the Support of the Federal Government , and the Colorado River Flowing through it .

originally posted by: SeekingAlpha
You guys are funny regarding California leaving the union.

California has oil, it has farming, it has commodities of all kinds, it has 2 universities in the top 10 and about 5 other universities in the top 30. Sillicon Valley and Sillicon Beach are the biggest job creators of high tech-cutting edge jobs in the world. CA will always get its cream of the crop globally to work for its corporations.

While states have to revert to tax gimmicks (such as Texas) to draw people to that sh it hole (except for Austin) of a state, Califronia stands on it own in terms of drawing corporations (despite our taxes) into our beautiful state.

Let's face it, the rust belt and the south are consummate dead weight. The highest percentage of people on welfare live in these states, especially the south. CA will not have to pay for these folks anymore and focus their taxes on improving CA.

There are a 1000 other reasons why CA would thrive on its own and leaving would cripple the country; but the most important asset that CA has is its employment force.

CA draws the best from all over the world and also attracts immigrants who are hungry to work and create a better life for themselves. The rust belt and the south are the way they are for a reason. Not only is weather horrible for most of the year in these states, the work force is terrible there too. People generally are not motivated in these states (there are always exceptions, but the general population is garbage in these states). There are too many from these states that are too entitled and not willing to do the dirty work to improve their situations. Most just simply do not want to work and not willing to start from the bottom and work themselves up the food chain.

Not that it would happen, but if CA ever left the union, trust me, CA would be fine.

Just imagine how much better off the U.S. would be if we just got rid of the leeches that are called the rust belt and the south too.

a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Thanks.

Water:

The Claude "Bud" Lewis Carlsbad Desalination Plant is a 50 million gallon per day (56,000 acre-feet per year (AFY)) seawater desalination plant located adjacent to the Encina Power Station in Carlsbad, California. Desalination has evolved into a desirable water supply alternative by tapping the largest reservoir in the world - the Pacific Ocean. The technology, available for decades, is at work in many arid areas of the world including the Middle East, the Mediterranean and the Caribbean. A 30-year Water Purchase Agreement is in place between the San Diego County Water Authority and Poseidon Water for the entire output of the plant. The plant has been delivering water to the businesses and residents of San Diego County since December 2015. carlsbaddesal.com...

DBIA Announces 2016 Design-Build Project of the Year FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Contact: Louis J. Jenny, Design-Build Institute of America (202) 454-7507 Carlsbad Desalination Plant Honored as Project of the Year Las Vegas, Nevada, 2016 – The Design-Build Institute of America (DBIA), the only organization that defines, teaches and promotes design-build best practices, announced the 2016 Project of theYear and National Award of Excellence winners at the Design-Build Conference & Expo Awards Dinner. The Claude"Bud" Lewis Carlsbad Desalination Plant was recognized as the 2016 Design-Build Project of the Year. The Gateway Plaza office building, the SR-520 Evergreen Point Floating Bridge and Landings Design-Build Project, Champion Pet foods Kentucky DogStar® Kitchens and the Spokane Central Service Center were also recognized for excellence. carlsbaddesal.com...

Meh, we would just recycle our water and build desal plants.

We are in the process of addressing this issue as these projects are currently in the books. Can you imagine if CA was a right wing state. There would be news clips coming out from the state saying that 1. it is illegal to say "drought" in official state documents and 2. the drought is not real.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: SeekingAlpha

You guys are funny regarding California leaving the union.

California has oil, it has farming, it has commodities of all kinds, it has 2 universities in the top 10 and about 5 other universities in the top 30. Sillicon Valley and Sillicon Beach are the biggest job creators of high tech-cutting edge jobs in the world. CA will always get its cream of the crop globally to work for its corporations.


It does Lack One Certain Vital Resource that it cannot Survive Without , Enough Fresh Water to Support it's People . It would Wither and Die Without the Support of the Federal Government , and the Colorado River Flowing through it .

Thoughts..
Well for one...
I return the podium to the original poster And ask them how they feel about California's inland empire's 70% production of US produce, and how those trade deals would work out for them....
a reply to: Teikiatsu

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Get them the hell out of our country. When they fail as a country we can DENY them membership to the US.

Really though, the union must not be broken. What does happen when it is threatened is that those who want to leave are killed by soldiers they try to fight.

I think we have gone down this road before.

The good news is that they can LEAVE the country. They cant take a state with them.

I think they want to die. Yes, I can hear it, "kill us, burn this bitch down for us".....

a reply to: SeekingAlpha
California has about one year of water stored. Will you ration now?




Right now the state has only about one year of water supply left in its reservoirs, and our strategic backup supply, groundwater, is rapidly disappearing. California has no contingency plan for a persistent drought like this one (let alone a 20-plus-year mega-drought), except, apparently, staying in emergency mode and praying for rain.

In short, we have no paddle to navigate this crisis.

Several steps need be taken .


There are no Present Solutions . The State could try and Cut Back on Water use in Agriculture and Livestock Raising , but without Rain , Ground Water Levels will continue to be Dangerously Lowered to the Point where they will no longer be able to be Pumped .






www.latimes.com...

a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Great post. Seriously. You saved me the trouble of explaining this. California would not only be fine, it would probably do a lot better without the the south and rust belt holding it back. Seeing how those states are the biggest federal welfare queens. Without federal regulations and statutes in place, California would also be free to fix a lot of it's problems on its own.

But more than that, if California went, Oregon and Washington would likely follow, which would change the game considerably, making a separate country not only more likely, but much stronger.

I don't see this happening soon, but within the next few decades, because this has been a trend since the 90's. If the U.S. continues in it's current direction, I see secession as easier and easier.