Interview with a 10 year old who talks about being gender non-binary

originally posted by: ANNED
I do not understand why people think gender is binary.

There are 3 genders and always have been. female, male, and intersex.
en.wikipedia.org...

No. That's talking about physical characteristics.

Which gender you identify with comes from the brain. In most cases it matches the physical packaging, but not always.

* parent who wanted a boy instead of a girl: check
* liberal mother who's nuttier than a squirrel sandwich at Christmas: check
* easily influenced child: check
* gender identity bandwagon: check

Well, that was predictable.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
IMHO, the characterization and description of the Mom says everything about this kid's path.

I believe the mother could have *Munchausen syndrome by proxy*


en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: NthOther
I'm losing track of all the labels people come up with for mental disorders pertaining to sexual identity.

I suppose we'll need to add another couple of letters (for "non-binary") to our favorite acronym:

LGBTQPNB

Pretty soon we'll have the entire alphabet rearranged. The Big Gay Alphabet.

Wait. "B" is in there twice. Now I'm really confused.

You mean LGBTDRUJNVAWUKMBSAAYOL,MHFDDWADGH@#$/%÷×TJ BF

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: queenofswords

1. Human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: “XY” and “XX” are genetic markers of male and female, respectively – not genetic markers of a disorder.

You do understand that there is more than XX and XY?

Yeah its called down syndrome and turners syndrome.

Oh goddammit! Have some in your face TL;DR

It's some of the same old people posting with the same old ignorant and uninformed argument and simplistic attitudes that just don't jive with today's sociological, medical and scientific understanding of sex and gender. Jesus effing Christ on a stick people! (for the sensitive, that was a vulgarity, not a comment on religion)

I was originally drawn to this site over nine years ago because it made me think. It made me learn about things and different perspectives and my knowledge grew as I tried to follow the site's motto to deny ignorance. I continue to learn and expand and grow and it makes me wonder why those so rigidly brain locked and close-minded even come to a site like this except to regurgitate their own canned dogma and response and knowledge that doesn't seem to have progressed beyond what they learned in 7th grade health class. Let's try to raise the bar around here and get back to that site that was full of interesting, inquisitive and thinking people with minds receptive to learning and understanding new things. What's that motto again? Deny ignorance - not perpetuate and spread it.

Open your eyes folks. Gender non-conforming people are all around you, always have been and always will be. The language and terminology may have progressed a bit and society's awareness of the diversity of the human condition has broadened as has acceptance of the fact that not all people fit neatly into black and white little boxes but when it comes to people that are queer, trans or don't quite fit the gender stereotypical mold, that hasn't changed. Not one bit. Some new labels may have been devised to describe these things that don't quite fit the either/or binary but being gender variant is as old as humankind.

I've spent the last year and half here talking about all things transgender and in particular, children and have tried to bring research, information and knowledge to my fellow members to help with their understanding of these things. This is somewhat my area of study and expertise because it also my perspective and experience in life. While being transgender and gender non-conforming is not the same thing, both are relevant to a thread such as this.

If you believe that non-typical gender expression is something that can be caused or promoted or that this is something foisted on children by their misguided parents or follow-the-leader pressure from peers or the media or something in the water, in most cases you would be completely wrong.

People are born male, female or with a multitude of various anatomical or genetic intersex conditions. Although predisposed by our wiring and prenatal chemical influences toward certain gendered behaviors, as we establish our own individual personalities and identities from infancy, our understanding of ourselves as boys or girls is at the central core of that development. Any book will tell you this. What sex we are and how we express that by displays and performance of expected gendered behaviors is at the heart and soul of everyone regardless of who or what you are although most are likely oblivious to this fact. These things are innate and built into who we are a people.

Because I've slept about six hours since Friday morning and it is now nearly 3:30 AM on Tuesday morning, let me just rant about this in my altered state... Let me get some wine too because I plan to sleep all day tomorrow.

Once again, I'll put myself out there as an example so that others may learn from my perspective. I was born with a male body but there's never been a time in my life that the gendered behaviors and roles and parts that went along with all of that ever fit in with who I was as a person or with my heart and soul. To myself, I was just a girl with some odd complications and in a weird situation.

From an outward point of view, as a boy child I was what today would be labeled as gender non-conforming, gender variant, gender expansive or non-binary, etc. Take your pick, they're all different PC terms describing the same thing. There were no words to describe these things in the 1950's, polite ones anyway, nor was there a whole lot of social acceptance for those that were different in these ways. A lot of things were misunderstood and hidden away back then but here's another point of view to consider in all this: Mine.

Had I been born with a female body, my non-conforming behaviors, personality and emotional and psychological makeup and my own sense of who I was WOULD have been conforming and typical. This gross dichotomy between the mind/spirit and the physical reality brought awareness and perspective of this fundamental problem to me as a very young child. As far back as I can remember things anyhow. I've never known anything different or felt myself to be the gender that went along with the parts I came out of the womb with.

As a kid, even a 4 or 5 year old kid, you know things aren't right even if you can't put your finger on it and it forces you to gain a certain awareness of these things at a depth of understanding far exceeding chronological years and in ways that even most adults can't comprehend. People often say kids are too young to know what they are but they do. Didn't you? Weren't most of you pretty sure you were boys or girls at a young age? Could anyone ever have changed your mind about that? Gender is completely entrenched in who we are.

Who I am and who I know myself to be has never changed, wavered or been questioned. For others, sometimes these things aren't so clearly defined so they do question, they do experiment, they do break some of the rules trying to find themselves. After all, isn't growing up supposed to be about finding out who we are and defining ourselves as people or at least something we hope we can all do one day?

As I got older and gained a little agency in life the more able I was to show the rest of the world who I was and the less I became willing to even attempt to meet the expectations of the gender roles, behaviors and appearance typically associated with my sex at birth. This isn't something I "did" or decided. It all happened normally and organically.

It started earlier but by 16 and 17 you would have had a hard time figuring out if I was a boy or a girl unless you got to know me then it was pretty obvious but hella weird and confusing to people. Outwardly, I was neither or both but inwardly, I was only one - the same one I'd always been and the same one I still am. From 18 onward, I was socially and legally known only as a girl and now at nearly 62, I've lived my entire adult life as just a regular woman. There was the whole sex change thing in there too but let's not turn that into part of this discussion.

Another thing that gets my goat and especially here at ATS. So many of you fuss that the educational system, society or the government is churning out mindless monochromatic drones and that there is some evil social agenda or programming at work to turn our kids all into sheep conditioned to obey but when someone does express their diversity or individuality by existing somewhere in-between the masculine/feminine - male/female binary, then they get shunned, mocked or ridiculed rather than celebrated and honored. I find that rather ironic.

--Continued below--

--Continued from above-

I can't speak for non-binary or people somewhere along the spectrum of gender because I myself do fit into the binary and into the traditional but I certainly don't put it upon myself to attempt to define other people. That's not my job. That right is reserved for the individual as I'm sure everyone would protest if someone tried to tell you who you are.

Not that I haven't already written tens of thousands of words about this in other threads but if someone is seriously interested in knowing more about kids like I was or has legitimate and considerate questions or desires a more in-depth discussion, I'm game as long as you're respectful. I'm kind of unique around here and present the opportunity for others to get things straight from the horse's mouth as it were. 82% of people have never knowingly met someone transgender. (which isn't a word I use to describe myself) Fewer have ever spoken to someone that has actually changed sex. Even fewer than that have ever have ever spoken with someone that was a trans child (former member JadeStar excluded - she was the only one I have ever known personally.)

If you are going to comment, I also ask that you be original. Check my post history - I've heard all the negativity and detractions imaginable and find them tiresome and redundant. Surprise me ATS! Turn this into a chance to learn, grow and expand your understanding and not just another thread ragging on trans and gender non-conforming folk with ill-informed rhetoric.

Beyond dead tired and finally headed horizontal but my intent was to open up an actual thoughtful discussion to maybe help ATS get back to its roots and for this not just be another thread of one or two-liners of people showing how poorly informed or how opinionated they are.

Let's make ATS great again!

Why does this website wind up with so many threads full of people hating on LGBTQ people?

Why do so many of you get your panties in such a twist about how other people you don't know feel about their sexual identity?

Why on earth does it matter to you so much?

I don't care how anybody else cares to define their own existence. It doesn't hurt me. It's none of my business.

I'm genuinely baffled as to why so many people on this website feel threatened by it. It's bizarre.

Non-binary? Oh boy, how long before parents start turning their children into plants? A 10y old child has not developed an own identity yet so why not stop plaguing their mind with the extra bull#. Enough of it is already there.

The fact, that the mother went public with this, baffles me and I seriously question sanity in this case.

Who cares live and let live eh?.

Yeah... His mom likes all the attention just as much as him.
As for kids not being sexually developed at that age.. Boy you, wouldn't have wanted to see me between the ages of 2 and 6.
Trust me, kids have 'impure' feelings to, they just have no idea what the hell is going on.

The world needs to stop shouting lgbt pc nonsense from everywhere... Why can't the media just report on facts, as unbiased observers. Why is there so much opinion to a job that's supposed to be all about facts and reporting the facts as they happened.

The world got caught up in a craze caring to much about everyone's feelings.
Kids are still dying Africa from hunger, yet these kids get all the attention. What is wrong with everyone?

a reply to: Painterz

Not threatened, but uncomfortable.
We don't want to know about these things, but the media wants us to know, heck, every lgbt member wants us to know.
They have parades, they must be 'proud', they must shove it in your face at every opportunity.

If they din't tell us, we wouldn't complain.
I'm not basing this off nonsense..
The media is just putting ideas into people's heads.. And obviously kids heads intern.

10 is too young.
10 year olds do not even know what it is to be a man or woman.
They are CHILDREN.
Some young boys are very feminine, some young girls are tom-boyish.
No need to convince them that they are some special exotic hybrid, because most likely, they are not.
just a confused kid with improper guidance.

Well good for him. Doesn't affect me any way the cards are laid. While I don't fully understand gender fluidity, I feel that I understand it to an extent. Although I identify as a female, and was born a female, and will likely always refer to myself as a woman, with female pronouns...... I enjoy the ambiguous appearance most days. I like looking very masculine some days, no makeup, hair clipped up under a fitted hat, fresh kicks, sweats, and a tshirt...... and other days I enjoy doing my hair and makeup and putting on a pair of stilettos.

SO I'm not really sure if any of that is similar to being gender fluid, but I feel like it helps me be more compassionate towards others in this regard, because I understand it's natural to not conform to societies gender laws, even if its the minority that experience this. You are who you are in body and in soul regardless of what any language labels you as.

Non gender conforming seems closest to how I roll, but then maybe not because I am ok with only being referred to as a female. I actually don't care what anyone refers to me as now that I think about it. I am who I am, a label doesn't dictate that.

-Alee

Non-binary + ten year old = parents.

How much of this is the parents leading the kid, rather than the kid making self-developed judgements.

I am all for non-binary adults.

originally posted by: paraphi
Non-binary + ten year old = parents.

How much of this is the parents leading the kid, rather than the kid making self-developed judgements.

I am all for non-binary adults.

Gender is in the brain.

It's how you were born.

It doesn't wait until you are an adult.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
10 is too young.
10 year olds do not even know what it is to be a man or woman.
They are CHILDREN.
Some young boys are very feminine, some young girls are tom-boyish.
No need to convince them that they are some special exotic hybrid, because most likely, they are not.
just a confused kid with improper guidance.

This is wrong.

The child does know.

originally posted by: GreenGunther

They have parades, they must be 'proud', they must shove it in your face at every opportunity.

Straight is shoved in their face every waking moment.

If they din't tell us, we wouldn't complain.

Speaking up is the only way to educate.

a reply to: Annee

Obviously not, seeing how the child has switched more than once.

a reply to: Morrad

If he can't clone himself/herself he/she is binary sex. Wishing, hoping, identifying is irrelevant. Born female, then biologically female despite the rhetoric.