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RFB vs. M1A. Thoughts?
page: 4share:
a reply to: roguetechie
SKS in a CBRS is sitting RIGHT there,cheap ass Vector scope and all,I'll have what THEY have anyway, if the fight continues.
SKS in a CBRS is sitting RIGHT there,cheap ass Vector scope and all,I'll have what THEY have anyway, if the fight continues.
Personally I'm considering buying / building my own RDB like bullpup with several mods to bring it closer to "military grade". This would include a
dust cover type mod for the bottom ejection port.
But that's balanced against other projects i'm contemplating and working up designs for. Including one potential project codenamed WarthAUG... hopefully THAT design pans out because the only thing better than a SAW nutsack....
TWO SAW NUTSACKS
however before any of these I'll be doing either one or both of the combat pistol projects I have on the drawing board. One of which I already had on the drawing board before you posted your shansei detachable magazine .45 acp Mauser thread.
The other though is actually directly inspired by your thread and our conversation in it. Basically what I'll wind up with is a really trick pistol with a forward magazine like a C96 but MUCH smaller and chambered in 7.62 tokarev / 7.63 Mauser at first. The goal is to make it short recoil locked but if this doesn't work it will just be a more or less straight blowback gun with a very clever buffer arrangement. Either way it'll sport 32 round double stack stick mags and take advantage of A very trick mechanism I've worked out to make the whole package shockingly concealable. That includes a holster design that can be used in two separate positions and should make it very fast on the draw!
Once I get the prototype working I'll build it in some other caliber options that I think could make it a very nice little pdw option.
But that's balanced against other projects i'm contemplating and working up designs for. Including one potential project codenamed WarthAUG... hopefully THAT design pans out because the only thing better than a SAW nutsack....
TWO SAW NUTSACKS
however before any of these I'll be doing either one or both of the combat pistol projects I have on the drawing board. One of which I already had on the drawing board before you posted your shansei detachable magazine .45 acp Mauser thread.
The other though is actually directly inspired by your thread and our conversation in it. Basically what I'll wind up with is a really trick pistol with a forward magazine like a C96 but MUCH smaller and chambered in 7.62 tokarev / 7.63 Mauser at first. The goal is to make it short recoil locked but if this doesn't work it will just be a more or less straight blowback gun with a very clever buffer arrangement. Either way it'll sport 32 round double stack stick mags and take advantage of A very trick mechanism I've worked out to make the whole package shockingly concealable. That includes a holster design that can be used in two separate positions and should make it very fast on the draw!
Once I get the prototype working I'll build it in some other caliber options that I think could make it a very nice little pdw option.
a reply to: SprocketUK
You're not alone in that. I know several folks who swear by theirs. I've never had the opportunity to shoot one...yet.
I've shot a wwI vintage Springfield 1903, that my grandfather brought back from the trenches of France. A cousin has it now, and won't part with it, the bastard...
You're not alone in that. I know several folks who swear by theirs. I've never had the opportunity to shoot one...yet.
I've shot a wwI vintage Springfield 1903, that my grandfather brought back from the trenches of France. A cousin has it now, and won't part with it, the bastard...
originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: SprocketUK
You're not alone in that. I know several folks who swear by theirs. I've never had the opportunity to shoot one...yet.
I've shot a wwI vintage Springfield 1903, that my grandfather brought back from the trenches of France. A cousin has it now, and won't part with it, the bastard...
There's something to be said for an older rifle.
I'm always of the opinion that I'm not going to need to squeeze of a million rounds a minute, nor hit someone 2 miles away. I think for home defence and hunting, a LE would be pretty neat. (Not as good as having a shotty behind the door or a pistol on your hip at close quarters, but you could always stick a bayonet on the thing, right?)
a reply to: roguetechie
Let me know when you want advanced project ideas..
Damned if I know how to make it work but I KNOW what the parts should do...
editby]edit on 13-9-2016 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)
Let me know when you want advanced project ideas..
Damned if I know how to make it work but I KNOW what the parts should do...
editby]edit on 13-9-2016 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-9-2016 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason
given)
edit on 13-9-2016 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: SprocketUK
Absolutely.
Shoot those zombies from long range, and stick 'em with the bayonet if they get too close. Something to be said for wooden stocks, too...not sure how well the modern light weight stocks would hold up to butt-stroking those same zombies...
Like my T-shirt says... Toughest thing about a coming zombie apocalypse is hiding my excitement
Absolutely.
Shoot those zombies from long range, and stick 'em with the bayonet if they get too close. Something to be said for wooden stocks, too...not sure how well the modern light weight stocks would hold up to butt-stroking those same zombies...
Like my T-shirt says... Toughest thing about a coming zombie apocalypse is hiding my excitement
a reply to: cavtrooper7
Dude cav, I've literally got a stack of advanced weapons concepts in my list of stuff to eventually work on. This includes bullpup pistol like objects designed to provide viable options smaller than sub carbines. It also includes my 5.56 & 7.62/7.92 minimum concepts which I almost certainly want to put into bullpups.
The 5.56 minimum and it's larger brother are about several things at once.
First: it's about providing performance on par with decent 5.56 & 7.62 NATO ammunition at 40%-50% of the weight per round but similar cartridge OAL and reduced case diameter. These would essentially drop into current weapons and drastically increase their lifespans will actually GAINING real world performance at long range! By performance I mean, not only will they hit just as hard but they'll get there faster with less drift etc making extended range snap shots in fire fights much more likely to score hits. As a pleasant side effect you'd gain mag and belt box capacity while also being able to almost double the ammo load if you want. Or, more likely, you'd add 25-50% to your 5.56 ammo loads and still be able to step up to a more powerful second caliber for LMG and DMR use. Weapons specifically designed for these rounds from the outset would be lighter and more durable, making them good platforms for mounting better optics, designators etc to.
Speaking of enabling technologies that will essentially help every guy shoot like a squad designated marksman or scout sniper... Yeah I've got a 2 tiered multiple item development cycle going for that too...
Those items also tie into a bunch of stuff we're looking into specifically to give soldiers back their ability, endurance, and general ability to run jump climb while protecting them from injuries caused by the weight they carry.
We're also looking into some vehicle level stuff, but that's still really speculative and theoretical because it hinges on how our weapon accessories and soldier systems development stuff goes.
Suffice it to say though that we're looking at stuff that we hope may fundamentally change or erase many of the limitations and hazards of ground combat in a way that lets soldiers train harder and more realistically, function better in the field, and serve longer with less destructive effect on their physical wellbeing.
The hope is that providing this stuff will serve as the basis by which a truly professional and more effective ground combat element can be created which will be able to create new tactics and ways of doing things and hopefully even make these organizations better at determining what they truly need to be more effective.
Dude cav, I've literally got a stack of advanced weapons concepts in my list of stuff to eventually work on. This includes bullpup pistol like objects designed to provide viable options smaller than sub carbines. It also includes my 5.56 & 7.62/7.92 minimum concepts which I almost certainly want to put into bullpups.
The 5.56 minimum and it's larger brother are about several things at once.
First: it's about providing performance on par with decent 5.56 & 7.62 NATO ammunition at 40%-50% of the weight per round but similar cartridge OAL and reduced case diameter. These would essentially drop into current weapons and drastically increase their lifespans will actually GAINING real world performance at long range! By performance I mean, not only will they hit just as hard but they'll get there faster with less drift etc making extended range snap shots in fire fights much more likely to score hits. As a pleasant side effect you'd gain mag and belt box capacity while also being able to almost double the ammo load if you want. Or, more likely, you'd add 25-50% to your 5.56 ammo loads and still be able to step up to a more powerful second caliber for LMG and DMR use. Weapons specifically designed for these rounds from the outset would be lighter and more durable, making them good platforms for mounting better optics, designators etc to.
Speaking of enabling technologies that will essentially help every guy shoot like a squad designated marksman or scout sniper... Yeah I've got a 2 tiered multiple item development cycle going for that too...
Those items also tie into a bunch of stuff we're looking into specifically to give soldiers back their ability, endurance, and general ability to run jump climb while protecting them from injuries caused by the weight they carry.
We're also looking into some vehicle level stuff, but that's still really speculative and theoretical because it hinges on how our weapon accessories and soldier systems development stuff goes.
Suffice it to say though that we're looking at stuff that we hope may fundamentally change or erase many of the limitations and hazards of ground combat in a way that lets soldiers train harder and more realistically, function better in the field, and serve longer with less destructive effect on their physical wellbeing.
The hope is that providing this stuff will serve as the basis by which a truly professional and more effective ground combat element can be created which will be able to create new tactics and ways of doing things and hopefully even make these organizations better at determining what they truly need to be more effective.
a reply to: roguetechie
Want a unique idea?
Put an SPAS 12 type of hook system on an Ar/Hk and BOOM a metal folding stabilizer that is hard to shoulder but works well and fast yet aids with a curving fore grip for aiming if at an angle.
People LIKE the hook a surplus SPAS12 folding stock is worth 300.00
The trick would be the locking system and for ME can you work a door like a Galil stock?
I have Gerstman's dyscalculia or I would have made one myself.
I HATE .223 gimmie something that takes out meat with great cavitation.
I CAN aim.
Want a unique idea?
Put an SPAS 12 type of hook system on an Ar/Hk and BOOM a metal folding stabilizer that is hard to shoulder but works well and fast yet aids with a curving fore grip for aiming if at an angle.
People LIKE the hook a surplus SPAS12 folding stock is worth 300.00
The trick would be the locking system and for ME can you work a door like a Galil stock?
I have Gerstman's dyscalculia or I would have made one myself.
I HATE .223 gimmie something that takes out meat with great cavitation.
I CAN aim.
edit on 14-9-2016 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: SprocketUK
Absolutely.
Shoot those zombies from long range, and stick 'em with the bayonet if they get too close. Something to be said for wooden stocks, too...not sure how well the modern light weight stocks would hold up to butt-stroking those same zombies...
Like my T-shirt says... Toughest thing about a coming zombie apocalypse is hiding my excitement
Actually I have that covered in our survival/defense layout Survival Spear. (If it was good enuf for Shaka Zulu then it has a place in my home) its It should do the trick. We also added a machete to each of our bug out bags. Was watching a Vice report on atrocities in Africa. Bunch of guys stopped the reporters and were carrying the aforementioned knife and it was pretty good from a scare value IMHO. Unless the other party has firearms
edit on 9/14/16 by FredT because: (no reason given)
a reply to: FredT
We have Gurkha kukris, kinda the same idea as the machete just lighter. We also keep a woodsman's pal in the trunk. I'm considering picking up one or more of this really amazing Chinese survival shovel too. Probably the single best implementation of a survival multi tool I've ever seen. Plus the RT industries black projects division has been lobbying for one just on it's potential value to other projects I've been working on.
As far as spear stuff goes there's also an ASEK2 downed pilot survival knife in the trunk specifically for it's isolated fiberglass handle sufficient to deal with live wiring on it's own and with cordage attached directly to the sheath for the purpose of using the built in lashing points to turn it into a spear or more likely a nice long prod for dealing with HV lines in a pinch.
I'm lucky in having a pretty major amount of first responder and specialist safety and incident response training in my past to allow me to pretty safely deal with really hairy stuff if it's the only real option.
Remember people, get the training FIRST then buy the gear! Not only will you save lots of money doing it like that, but you're less likely to make a situation worse just trying to help. Your brain knowledge and training are the primary assets in emergencies, the gear is secondary.
We have Gurkha kukris, kinda the same idea as the machete just lighter. We also keep a woodsman's pal in the trunk. I'm considering picking up one or more of this really amazing Chinese survival shovel too. Probably the single best implementation of a survival multi tool I've ever seen. Plus the RT industries black projects division has been lobbying for one just on it's potential value to other projects I've been working on.
As far as spear stuff goes there's also an ASEK2 downed pilot survival knife in the trunk specifically for it's isolated fiberglass handle sufficient to deal with live wiring on it's own and with cordage attached directly to the sheath for the purpose of using the built in lashing points to turn it into a spear or more likely a nice long prod for dealing with HV lines in a pinch.
I'm lucky in having a pretty major amount of first responder and specialist safety and incident response training in my past to allow me to pretty safely deal with really hairy stuff if it's the only real option.
Remember people, get the training FIRST then buy the gear! Not only will you save lots of money doing it like that, but you're less likely to make a situation worse just trying to help. Your brain knowledge and training are the primary assets in emergencies, the gear is secondary.
a reply to: cavtrooper7
Personally I understand what you're saying, but the angles etc just don't work right. My personal AR's are very stripped down subdued affairs at this point. Most are set up with duostocks, magwell grips, MOE friends with afg or free float tube with hand stop a few inches back from the end, and red dot or etc.
They work well like this.
My AK's are even more basic with mostly just a good optic on side rail mount and good slings I've worked up to my own custom patterns. Though I am very seriously considering at least a couple Zhukov stocks and trying one of the longer Zhukov handguards which I'd at least trial some accessories on.
Anything more than that is waiting on me to finish my Autopod M version which will essentially be a complete accessory set in a single stand alone platform.
Whoops forgot tactical light and tape switches which on the AR are routed under the bottom heat shield and out at desired location and very carefully wrapped with reflective heat tape for the entirety of the internal routing path. Speaking of that I need to make my own wire sets for those that are flat instead of round in profile and have good high temperature insulation that way when I reflective heat tape them there's as much air space as possible between the wire pack and heat shield.
It may seem like a little thing and very OCD to do, but it just irritates me how so-called tactical gear manufacturers leave 101 little loose ends in gear they charge really good money for. That's why I home brew so much of what I use, not only does it usually save money but I also know EXACTLY what the strengths weaknesses and compromises were that went into each piece of a project.
If the worst happens and I ever have to really use my gear right up to the ragged edge of what it was designed and built to deal with, I'll know I'm at this edge. If something fails I'm going to have a really good idea of what failed, why, and how to get it back into action quickly.
In theory that's the stuff these manufacturers and retailers should do for you, but marketing departments come along and insist everything is suitable for hardcore operations in operational environments.
Personally I understand what you're saying, but the angles etc just don't work right. My personal AR's are very stripped down subdued affairs at this point. Most are set up with duostocks, magwell grips, MOE friends with afg or free float tube with hand stop a few inches back from the end, and red dot or etc.
They work well like this.
My AK's are even more basic with mostly just a good optic on side rail mount and good slings I've worked up to my own custom patterns. Though I am very seriously considering at least a couple Zhukov stocks and trying one of the longer Zhukov handguards which I'd at least trial some accessories on.
Anything more than that is waiting on me to finish my Autopod M version which will essentially be a complete accessory set in a single stand alone platform.
Whoops forgot tactical light and tape switches which on the AR are routed under the bottom heat shield and out at desired location and very carefully wrapped with reflective heat tape for the entirety of the internal routing path. Speaking of that I need to make my own wire sets for those that are flat instead of round in profile and have good high temperature insulation that way when I reflective heat tape them there's as much air space as possible between the wire pack and heat shield.
It may seem like a little thing and very OCD to do, but it just irritates me how so-called tactical gear manufacturers leave 101 little loose ends in gear they charge really good money for. That's why I home brew so much of what I use, not only does it usually save money but I also know EXACTLY what the strengths weaknesses and compromises were that went into each piece of a project.
If the worst happens and I ever have to really use my gear right up to the ragged edge of what it was designed and built to deal with, I'll know I'm at this edge. If something fails I'm going to have a really good idea of what failed, why, and how to get it back into action quickly.
In theory that's the stuff these manufacturers and retailers should do for you, but marketing departments come along and insist everything is suitable for hardcore operations in operational environments.
a reply to: FredT
Firearms are useful, but the Zulu gave the Brits all they wanted with short spears, hide shields, and good tactics.
It always comes down, usually, to the person behind the weapon.
That is a pretty spear...but for zombies, or boar, I'd add a cross-piece to it, to keep 'em from walking down the shaft and taking a chunk out of you.
Firearms are useful, but the Zulu gave the Brits all they wanted with short spears, hide shields, and good tactics.
It always comes down, usually, to the person behind the weapon.
That is a pretty spear...but for zombies, or boar, I'd add a cross-piece to it, to keep 'em from walking down the shaft and taking a chunk out of you.
originally posted by: roguetechie
a reply to: FredT
We have Gurkha kukris, kinda the same idea as the machete just lighter. We also keep a woodsman's pal in the trunk. I'm considering picking up one or more of this really amazing Chinese survival shovel too. Probably the single best implementation of a survival multi tool I've ever seen. Plus the RT industries black projects division has been lobbying for one just on it's potential value to other projects I've been working on.
Fair play on the kukri. I've got my grandads old one that was issued to the 2nd Indian Div in 1942. He carried it back and forth through Burma until he got sent home in 46.
Hell of a blade to have on your hip.
a reply to: roguetechie
While we're busy tearing down bullpups what do you dislike about the Tavor? Also, do you think the MDR will be a viable combat rifle or another dud? The MDR's features are attractive...
Looking at the convertible .308 platforms, I think I like Olympic's MPR 308-15 better than Colt's MARC 901. Sure you lose your high capacity with the single stack design(and extra mags are expensive), but I'm betting the MPR would be more functional with various AR uppers than the MARC. The 901's conversion system seemed like it might be more potentially problematic. What do you think? Have you tested these guns? A lefty AR-10 is looking like it'll probably be the winner for my wish list contest, but I might turn right for one of these convertible rifles.
While we're busy tearing down bullpups what do you dislike about the Tavor? Also, do you think the MDR will be a viable combat rifle or another dud? The MDR's features are attractive...
Looking at the convertible .308 platforms, I think I like Olympic's MPR 308-15 better than Colt's MARC 901. Sure you lose your high capacity with the single stack design(and extra mags are expensive), but I'm betting the MPR would be more functional with various AR uppers than the MARC. The 901's conversion system seemed like it might be more potentially problematic. What do you think? Have you tested these guns? A lefty AR-10 is looking like it'll probably be the winner for my wish list contest, but I might turn right for one of these convertible rifles.
a reply to: TheBadCabbie
OK so the tavor is very bulky for what it is, and even the full size non x95 versions just plain aren't anywhere near as accurate as an AR variant.
Personally I'm a huge bullpup fan, and have owned quite a few of them over the years including an aug, the MSAR AUG clone, fn fs2000, p90, M17s, RFB, bushmaster arm gun clone, and other kitbash home brew stuff I made myself. (I made my arm pistol clone)
Over the years though, mostly during various panics, I've managed to accidentally sell off all my bullpups for truly obscene prices mostly. I plan on rectifying this situation sooner than later though.
If desert tech gets the MDR to market I have no doubt it will be phenomenal. The guys at desert tech are extremely talented and committed to providing nothing but the best. They also reside in Utah, which has been and continues to be a firearms mecca (john moses browning was from Utah)
My next round of bullpups will probably be mostly built by me except for an RDB and an AUG which I'll hopefully buy in the next 2 years since they are going to be the basis of the stuff I intend to build. I might end up with a transferrable full auto arm gun too, but that's a conversation for another day.
In my opinion you cannot go wrong with a 901, an Olympic arms single stack, or a DPMS G2. Please trust me on the dedicated left handed model thing, it just isn't a big deal to shoot the righty models left handed. All of the 3 rifles mentioned have substantial combat rifle DNA in them, and were designed to be perfectly functional for Lefty's.
When I get my true ambi guns built and debugged I promise I'll give you first chance at one of the first 5 I build, and I'll even credit you 90% of whatever you pay on the gun you're buying now in trade value.
The one thing I'll say in favor of the colt is that you'd be able to use PMAG's in both 308 & 5.56 which is actually a big selling point in my opinion. You have no idea how many great gun designs have died at the hands of really terrible proprietary magazine designs.
It's the same reason I always recommend people buy AUG models with the STANAG magazine well. It's not that they're the best, but you can literally get them everywhere on Earth at this point. And usually cheap!
OK so the tavor is very bulky for what it is, and even the full size non x95 versions just plain aren't anywhere near as accurate as an AR variant.
Personally I'm a huge bullpup fan, and have owned quite a few of them over the years including an aug, the MSAR AUG clone, fn fs2000, p90, M17s, RFB, bushmaster arm gun clone, and other kitbash home brew stuff I made myself. (I made my arm pistol clone)
Over the years though, mostly during various panics, I've managed to accidentally sell off all my bullpups for truly obscene prices mostly. I plan on rectifying this situation sooner than later though.
If desert tech gets the MDR to market I have no doubt it will be phenomenal. The guys at desert tech are extremely talented and committed to providing nothing but the best. They also reside in Utah, which has been and continues to be a firearms mecca (john moses browning was from Utah)
My next round of bullpups will probably be mostly built by me except for an RDB and an AUG which I'll hopefully buy in the next 2 years since they are going to be the basis of the stuff I intend to build. I might end up with a transferrable full auto arm gun too, but that's a conversation for another day.
In my opinion you cannot go wrong with a 901, an Olympic arms single stack, or a DPMS G2. Please trust me on the dedicated left handed model thing, it just isn't a big deal to shoot the righty models left handed. All of the 3 rifles mentioned have substantial combat rifle DNA in them, and were designed to be perfectly functional for Lefty's.
When I get my true ambi guns built and debugged I promise I'll give you first chance at one of the first 5 I build, and I'll even credit you 90% of whatever you pay on the gun you're buying now in trade value.
The one thing I'll say in favor of the colt is that you'd be able to use PMAG's in both 308 & 5.56 which is actually a big selling point in my opinion. You have no idea how many great gun designs have died at the hands of really terrible proprietary magazine designs.
It's the same reason I always recommend people buy AUG models with the STANAG magazine well. It's not that they're the best, but you can literally get them everywhere on Earth at this point. And usually cheap!
a reply to: SprocketUK
Yeah, and the two smaller knives that come with quality kukri sets are very useful too for all those things that don't require you to physically separate someone's extremities from their body. Very nice knives that seem to move well in even novice hands.
Yeah, and the two smaller knives that come with quality kukri sets are very useful too for all those things that don't require you to physically separate someone's extremities from their body. Very nice knives that seem to move well in even novice hands.
a reply to: roguetechie
Yup.
I've hunted boar, I know exactly how tough they are. When hurt, they're insane. I had one die at my feet having taken a full magazine of .44 magnum.
He was well and truly pissed off!! Go in on a boar with a spear w/o a crosspiece and you're a dead man walking.
Yup.
I've hunted boar, I know exactly how tough they are. When hurt, they're insane. I had one die at my feet having taken a full magazine of .44 magnum.
He was well and truly pissed off!! Go in on a boar with a spear w/o a crosspiece and you're a dead man walking.
a reply to: seagull
This conversation and things like the prevalence of modern body armor are the reason why most of my go to guns have the provision for mounting cruciform (aka spike) bayonets.
Whether it's billy the badass boar or some cat in level 3a armor with nij stab and slash ratings too, the last thing you want is to have your weapon jerked out of your hands post perforation!
As the old saying goes STICK AND MOVE! STICK AND MOVE!
This conversation and things like the prevalence of modern body armor are the reason why most of my go to guns have the provision for mounting cruciform (aka spike) bayonets.
Whether it's billy the badass boar or some cat in level 3a armor with nij stab and slash ratings too, the last thing you want is to have your weapon jerked out of your hands post perforation!
As the old saying goes STICK AND MOVE! STICK AND MOVE!