RFB vs. M1A. Thoughts?

a reply to: TheBadCabbie
I am unsure if the RFB gas system is adjustable, I would have to ask my friend, but since it is modern I would expect so.

Indeed, forward weightiness will help against muzzle climb but, in the long run, your supporting hand will hate you for it. Not to mention, when firing anything so powerful you should be using a bipod to begin with.

Another friend has a Tavor and I personally find it unattractive and bulky (they are extremely tall rifles), I found it somewhat uncomfortable to hold, but those Israelis sure do make reliable firearms. I have not heard of any significant leaks.


I am a bit of a collector of WWII firearms and am heavily biased toward them. The SVT-40 is 7.62×54r (very similar in practice to a .308 yet marginally more powerful), selfsame ammunition as the paragon Mosin-Nagant. You might also try to find the German Gewehr 41 (or 43), which is based off of the SVT-40. But good luck finding one, I have been searching forever.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Cabbie,

As someone whose shot and owned an M1a, an RFB, several FAL, a couple G3, and an AR10 I have good news and bad news for you.

First, the good news: The RFB was really cool to own.

Now the bad news: The M1A really kinda sucked to own and operate. AND so did the RFB.

I'm not going to go point by point, but I'll explain a few things really quickly.

The RFB does have an adjustable gas system, unfortunately it's too adjustable and the gun basically requires you to do function tests with each new brand or weight of ammunition. The right setting can also change because of temperature and altitude factors. There's plenty of gas system and ammo combination settings cheat sheets out there but best to confirm for yourself.

The RFB is also the FAR better close medium and long range gun. Unless you want to put another $1000 into accurizing your M1a because it isn't great from the box.

RFB has indisputably superior handling due to it's weight being mostly rear of the pistol grip. You're going to be less tired from carrying your gun when it's time to take the shot that matters.

Honestly both guns can be very finicky and both need unacceptable levels of babying in their own ways.

There's other options, even for us southpaws that will suit your needs, and even better they just happen to be a WHOLE LOT CHEAPER!

there's far from no hope in your current search. A large pool of better cheaper options exist that will last longer and give you years of faithful use.

This price difference can be enough to actually allow you to purchase a GOOD optic with your new gun. That's probably the most important part. Pm me for more info or I can reply here

I spent a couple of years in the early 2000s in a unit that sometimes used the G3KA4 to beef up firepower when in vehicle.

Despite it being the K version I still found it quite front heavy. The collapsing stock did the 7.62 recoil no favours either and it was a bitch to fire on rapid. Luckily I never needed it for real.

We had the choice of a G3, HK53 or MP5K depending on what the job was, and we usually had a bit if free reign in which we used. In most instances I chose the 53 if given the choice as it was lighter, more compact and allowed for better control on rapid, though the 7.62 of the G3 did give a feeling that it would do the business if you needed to actually shoot someone.

I know loads of people who love the FAL but it is probably because of lack of exposure to other 7.62 platforms. As for the M1A - I have no experience so can't comment.

Just out of curiosity, what are you wanting to use the weapon for that a 5.56 can't realistically do? 7.62 is a big old round for a fighting gun.

a reply to: PaddyInf

Paddy basically the only thing I have to say about the FAL and M1A is at least the recoil isn't as bad as the G3 especially with the short telescoping stock and teeny tiny surface area of it.

The reasons you see so many Americans with a seemingly pressing desire to own and use the 7.62x51 has to do with 3 things.

1. Tradition: Some people still haven't moved on since the big thirty caliber was relegated to specialist and gpmg roles. Half a century has passed and some people still have not got over the heretical decision to switch. It's our version of the Calvinist schism.

2. Hunting laws that impose arbitrary minimum caliber limits.

3. Range: there really are places where a big bore gun is kind of necessary.

Personally I'm not a fan of 7.62 NATO or 308, really they're not great rounds for the weight and recoil penalties.

a reply to: roguetechie

Go ahead and throw it up in here. What do you suggest? Also, I'd love to hear more of the technical details on the issues that you've had with the RFB and M1A when you've got the time. Either way, thanks for the input.

I find the POF 308 with 20 inch barrel to do the trick, very little recoil, great accuracy, can be expensive to feed, cause it likes to eat up rounds with no farts or hiccups to speak of, put a Zeiss conquest scope on her and she'll shoot better than the ability of most.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

OK, so judging by what you've said and your priorities as I've seen in your posts I'd recommend a DPMS G2.

they're very affordable, light, and you won't get propellant gases to the face. It also takes lots of AR15 parts and accessories.

We've got lots of options other than this too. Including me just building you what you want and helping you find an ffl for you to legally accept the transfer in your area.

I know how difficult being a lefty gun guy is and I already have the tools so why not?

Honestly though, it's probably better if we find you a factory gun you like.

a reply to: chopperswolf

AR-10 fan? AR-10 is a nice gun. I've been hoping someone will start manufacturing a left-handed model. Either way, nice gun.

a reply to: roguetechie

Are you saying that the gas block upgrade would make the propellant spray negligible? They don't actually make a left-handed model, right?

originally posted by: PaddyInf

Just out of curiosity, what are you wanting to use the weapon for that a 5.56 can't realistically do? 7.62 is a big old round for a fighting gun.

The same reason anybody else would want to lug all that extra weight in lead and brass around: more penetration and down range torque with increased range.

From a rifleman's perspective, if you get caught up in ground war insanity you'll end up fighting lightly armored opponents. A .308 will penetrate many forms of armor that will stop or slow down a .223 or 7.62x39. You're also adding a couple hundred yards to your engagement range while maintaining better ballistics. It's a light enough package to be packed with 150 rounds. As an end of the world rifle, it might afford you an occasional strategic advantage.

Of course the added weight is a trade off, though each round carried would be a much more powerful one than the lighter ammo. Better for bigger game vs. 5.56 or 7.62x39 too I'd guess. Better chance of a one shot kill for most tough game. Better long shot too, for antelope and such.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

If range and hunting are a major part in the choice then I agree with 7.62. If it were purely a fighting gun then I'd be pushing 5.56, but that's obviously not the case.

The only 7.62mm semi I've had any real experience with in the last 10 years is the LMT Sharpshooter. We have these at platoon and sometimes section level. They were bought as an urgent operational requirement for Afghanistan because of the range issues and really do the business. We top them with either x6 ACOGs in the sharpshooter role or a 4-12 Schmidt & Bender in the sniper support role.

LMT do a range of 7.62 shooters, from lightweight 13.5" SBRs to 20" tactical rifles. I don't know if anything from them would be worth looking at.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

There are no lefty G2's however the right handed models do work well for me. And the gassing is minimal to unnoticeable unless you run suppressed. But if you want to do this there are multiple very solid and affordable adjustable gas blocks available.

In order to go true left handed you'd need to probably buy a rifle based upon the older DPMS LR308 receiver pattern. I could put together a true lefty gun for you, but it would require in depth discussion of what you want and need etc.

Please forgive my reluctance to reveal my parts sources and methods, but I just spent 4 months in the hospital and cannot work at least until after I have a major heart surgery and recover from it... Even then it's fairly likely my days of active workforce participation are over.

Helping people with stuff like this helps keep the wolves at bay, and the power on to run my tooling.

I'm checking out a couple other potential options for you though including another bullpup that MAY come in a left handed model.

All this being said, I'm not offering help with any desire for compensation in your case. This is just one left handed gun guy helping another get a quality rifle they'll enjoy using... I genuinely love firearms and shooting sports, and there's not much that's more rewarding for me personally than sharing my passion and hard earned knowledge to others.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Many make them..www.radicalfirearms.com...

a reply to: PaddyInf

I'm very jealous, especially of the Schmidt and bender optics...

Though I love Meopta too, and you can pry my PK-AS from my cold dead hands!

Personally I feel that 5.45x39 is a much better round in some fundamental ways than 5.56. I stock 5.45&5.56 and have rifles in both calibers though.

My current obsession is making a semiautomatic clone of a recently shown Iranian rifle. I really like the looks of it, and it shouldn't be all that challenging of a build.

Mostly it's just to satisfy my craving for different, but also because my gut and knowledge base both tell me it has the potential to be a really nice firearm at a very reasonable cost. It appears to have some very cool and technically/tactically useful features while being compatible with standard 5.45 5.56 & 7.62x39 AK magazines.

I also suspect that they'll be coming out with a 7.62 NATO version at some point due to a new picture I just saw today of what appears to be a preproduction tool room T&E model.

a reply to: roguetechie

No worries about your reticence, I understand. I appreciate your input to the discussion regardless.

A little off topic perhaps, but you piqued my interest on the 5.45. What are the advantages of the round in your opinion? They make AR-15 uppers in 5.45 too, don't they? With that in mind, what's the best(most accurate yet still field functional) launcher for that cartridge in your opinion?

a reply to: NightFlight

Political not the rifle .


.223 is a ladies round,get a PIG.
I MISS MY MARGRET!

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Many make them..www.radicalfirearms.com...

Nice find 7. Thanks! I was not aware of a lefty AR-10.

Colt has produced a MODULAR receiver that is 308

www.colt.com...
Here is a take down upper
www.brownells.com...
And because I love you guys...a 9mm belt fed upper

www.centerfiresystems.com...

a reply to: PaddyInf

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie

originally posted by: PaddyInf

Just out of curiosity, what are you wanting to use the weapon for that a 5.56 can't realistically do? 7.62 is a big old round for a fighting gun.

The same reason anybody else would want to lug all that extra weight in lead and brass around: more penetration and down range torque with increased range.

From a rifleman's perspective, if you get caught up in ground war insanity you'll end up fighting lightly armored opponents. A .308 will penetrate many forms of armor that will stop or slow down a .223 or 7.62x39. You're also adding a couple hundred yards to your engagement range while maintaining better ballistics. It's a light enough package to be packed with 150 rounds. As an end of the world rifle, it might afford you an occasional strategic advantage.

Of course the added weight is a trade off, though each round carried would be a much more powerful one than the lighter ammo. Better for bigger game vs. 5.56 or 7.62x39 too I'd guess. Better chance of a one shot kill for most tough game. Better long shot too, for antelope and such.

I guess you could add to this as a tactical consideration that in times of war or other potential domestic chaos, 7.62 NATO is likely to be one of the more available munitions of larger caliber.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

How about an AK in 30.06?
assaultweaponsofohio.net...
It won't shoot surplus military ammo just modern types 'its a longer length.