Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief

a reply to: Jordan River

So, if you choose not to play a game you know cannot win, you're a coward..

I dont really understand that logic,...

but I guess I understand the mind of a Trump supporter a bit more..

originally posted by: Tucket
a reply to: Jordan River

So, if you choose not to play a game you know cannot win, you're a coward..

I dont really understand that logic,...

but I guess I understand the mind of a Trump supporter a bit more..

Wow what nasty attacks. But I'll play cool

Its a civic duty to vote

originally posted by: Indigo5
My thread discusses the broader implications of Trump being owned by Russian interests.

You arrived at this because Manafort made money as a consultant with the former pro-Russian Ukranian regime?

Never mind that it appears everyone seems to have been on that gravy-train during the 2007-2012 period of Manafort's activity at the behest of Obama and Clinton's Russian 'reset'.

The United States and Russia in a New Era: One Year After "Reset"

...

... Nor can I think of a better moment to take stock, a little over a year after President Obama launched an effort to “reset” our relationship with Russia...

...

President Obama and Secretary Clinton came to office without illusions about our difficulties with Russia or the complexities of our relationship, but with a firm commitment to making a fresh start. Their approach was guided by several assumptions.

...

... it’s important to build a structure for our relationship, based not only on personalities and rapport amongst leaders, but also on institutions and practical mechanisms at every level. As George Kennan once put it, the business of diplomacy and of advancing our interests with other countries is a little like tending a garden, with painstaking cultivation of a range of connections and common concerns, and careful attention to the weeds and differences that often obstruct progress.

...

...A[n]...advance is the creation of a new structure for more systematic cooperation between us, the U.S.-Russia Bilateral Presidential Commission. Overseen by Secretary Clinton and Foreign Minister Lavrov, the Commission now includes some 16 working groups, spurring engagement and new ideas for partnership that go well beyond the traditional Cold War confines of arms control and security...

But to you it's more meaningful that a private-citizen-political-consultant made money consulting a pro-Russian Ukrainian regime than it is for a sitting Secretary of State to have her support bought (and hidden by her husband's foundation) by Uranium One investors in their sale to Rosatom, the Russian atomic energy agency, of 20% of the US' uranium reserves?

Sound logic there. Ignore Hillary's actual and specific damaging Russian connections for money (and against US interests) for the innuendo that her opponent is much worse because he hired a campaign manager who ate at the very trough of Obama and Hilary's creation.

Hell, even our current VP's son was in on the gluttony. But none of that really matters, does it, as long as Trump can be painted as a Russian sympathizer?

originally posted by: loam

But to you it's more meaningful that a private-citizen-political-consultant made money consulting a pro-Russian Ukrainian regime than it is for a sitting Secretary of State to have her support bought (and hidden by her husband's foundation) by Uranium One investors in their sale to Rosatom, the Russian atomic energy agency, of 20% of the US' uranium reserves?

Politifact Link

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine’s newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials.

Quick question, is money technically "off the books" if it's written in a ledger?

Yes...The Mob et al. keep ledgers..Even criminals need accounting.

Apart from that, formerly corrupt politicians and aides in Ukraine explained the ledger was off-the-books, kept in a room with safes and bags of cash and paid people out of the off-the-books room with stacks of old bills. It was the money room for Manaforts client/deposed pres. of Ukraine. It's all there in the OP article and others if you read.

a reply to: Jordan River

WTF, I wasn't attacking at all!!...

I'm just saying I understand... sort of..

Do I agree? No..

Personally..I think its a civic duty not to vote....

originally posted by: Tucket
a reply to: Jordan River

WTF, I wasn't attacking at all!!...

I'm just saying I understand... sort of..

Do I agree? No..

Personally..I think its a civic duty not to vote....

Bro now you acting like Trump, I can read sarcasm as softly as it is applied.

Look i understand that The united states of republic that we call America isn't the best or the greatest.
But with so many opinions and beliefs on the matter I'm also open to people disagreeing

a reply to: Jordan River

I'm sorry you feel that I was being sarcastic.. I wasn't....You want sarcasm...check my Avatar..

I guess well' just have to disagree on both points


And speaking of attacks..."acting like Trump"....ouch!

a reply to: DJW001

Exactly like the conjecture swirling around the Clinton Foundation. The difference is that I have heard that Kyiv may extradite Manafort to prosecute corruption charges, and that could complicate things immeasurably.

Not quite the same. Clinton is running for the highest public office in the land. Manifort is a private citizen.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DJW001

Exactly like the conjecture swirling around the Clinton Foundation. The difference is that I have heard that Kyiv may extradite Manafort to prosecute corruption charges, and that could complicate things immeasurably.

Not quite the same. Clinton is running for the highest public office in the land. Manifort is a private citizen.

They're both "private citizens" according to the logic I hear from multiple Trump surrogates on a daily basis.

a reply to: DelMarvel

They're both "private citizens" according to the logic I hear from multiple Trump surrogates on a daily basis.

The current concern about the Clinton Foundation was that it was working hand in hand with the State department when Hilary was serving as secretary of state.

What do you expect? Does anyone think a presidential candidate is going to have an honest and moral campaign manager?

Come on now, we are talking about politics here. Does it matter what country the demon comes from?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DelMarvel

They're both "private citizens" according to the logic I hear from multiple Trump surrogates on a daily basis.

The current concern about the Clinton Foundation was that it was working hand in hand with the State department when Hilary was serving as secretary of state.

Agreed, that is the concern. I was only reacting to your previous statement. As of now Clinton, Manifort and Trump are all "private citizens." At least, that's the Trump talking heads' defense of their candidate I'm constantly hearing.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Agreed, that is the concern. I was only reacting to your previous statement. As of now Clinton, Manifort and Trump are all "private citizens." At least, that's the Trump talking heads' defense of their candidate I'm constantly hearing.

They are technically private citizens at the moment given that neither of them hold public office. But only one has served in public office, only one has lived in the White House, and only one is a career politician. Arguably, only one has used public office for private gain.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DelMarvel

Agreed, that is the concern. I was only reacting to your previous statement. As of now Clinton, Manifort and Trump are all "private citizens." At least, that's the Trump talking heads' defense of their candidate I'm constantly hearing.

They are technically private citizens at the moment given that neither of them hold public office. But only one has served in public office, only one has lived in the White House, and only one is a career politician. Arguably, only one has used public office for private gain.

By what definition would Manafort not be a career politician?

a reply to: DelMarvel

By what definition would Manafort not be a career politician?

I was comparing Hilary and Trump specifically. Manifort is a political lobbyist, though I am not sure he has been a candidate or holder of public office.

Are stars and Flags so important that no one ever waits for the other shoe to fall?
There is no secret here. He is a hired gun like all political advisors. Hillary has them too except the money went directly to Hillary. (Except for the $500,000.00 that Bill Clinton got in a speaking fee from Russia just after Hillary sold 20% of our uranium to Russia-who is I turn selling it to Iran who want to bring it back to the U.S. in a suitcase.)

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DelMarvel

They're both "private citizens" according to the logic I hear from multiple Trump surrogates on a daily basis.

The current concern about the Clinton Foundation was that it was working hand in hand with the State department

But this OP is not about Clinton? Nor would I consider giving employment references on the same page as Working for Vladimir Putin's interests.

Perhaps you could choose an OP related to Hillary Clinton?

From Trumps Speech in Ohio today...

I also believe that we could find common ground with Russia in the fight against ISIS.

Wouldn't that be a good thing?...Wouldn't that be a good thing?

They too have much at stake in the outcome in Syria, and have had their own battles with Islamic terrorism.

My Administration will aggressively pursue joint and coalition military operations to crush and destroy ISIS, international cooperation to cutoff their funding, expanded intelligence sharing, and cyberwarfare to disrupt and disable their propaganda and recruiting.

originally posted by: atrollstalker
Are stars and Flags so important that no one ever waits for the other shoe to fall?
(Except for the $500,000.00 that Bill Clinton got in a speaking fee from Russia just after Hillary sold 20% of our uranium to Russia-who is I turn selling it to Iran who want to bring it back to the U.S. in a suitcase.)

Again...Wrong thread?

Are you incapable or are you unwilling to focus on the actual OP?

Your claim has been addressed ad nausea..

Donald Trump inaccurately suggests Clinton got paid to approve Russia uranium deal
www.politifact.com...