The Conspiracy of the Religious Elite

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I DO understand basic 6th grade English, lol...so, whoever put these accounts in the Bible, must not have understood "basic 6th grade English")

You will have to argue that with the translators of which I posted above. I just gave you a clear precise example of the difference between the ESV bible and the KJV bible just as you have asked.

The ESV bible is ----
"The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning."
Source - www.esv.org...

There were 54 translators of the 1611 KJV bible and those men were the best English linguists and translators in the UK at that time.

We now have you who thinks that you are somewhat more qualified than 154 translators and interpreters of scriptures. I call that arrogance in the highest order. You have shown your true standard in this debate with nothing but ignorance. Now if you wish to lecture these 154 people [if possible] then by all means do so but i cannot carry their water for them.

So, according to you Mr. Seede...the ONLY way to interpret the plain meaning of these contradictory passages, is to do massive research into the MSS or the Septuagint, and somehow try to determine just WHO is correct. Never mind, just taking these passages as word value and meaning. Oh no, since they CONTRADICT, there must be some other sublime reason...like the one's who put the Bible together somehow misconstrued the translations...right?

Wrong again. You do understand that the first Septuagint was Torah only? How could you involve "Torah" in this debate? The latter literature of which you may refer to as Septuagint and which would become Tanakh did not contain the literature of the NT. How then could you reference Luke's literature with Septuagint when the man was not even born? By the way what you may reference as Septuagint today did not exist as Septuagint and in fact has been nothing but a copy of copies within its own structure. In other words it is highly disputed to ever have existed as claimed.

As far as who is correct is concerned is not an issue with the scholars as it is with lay people who do not study. In the two side by side examples of the ESV and KJV bibles, both are correct. One rendition heard not a voice with understanding and another heard a voice with understanding. Ask any person with hearing problems. Nothing problematic about that whatsoever. The two renditions of which you question were not related to Luke by the same source. Simply a matter of understanding literature in context. No one truly knows who related the accounts to Luke but it most certainly was not Saul/Paul or Luke. Perhaps with you superb education you can research that and make a thread of revelation.

a reply to: Seede

Well, I have a simple question for you. Do you trust in the scholars, or in the HS whom Jesus said He would send, so that we would need NO teachers...but the HS?

Because, that's what I lean on....do you?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Well, I have a simple question for you. Do you trust in the scholars, or in the HS whom Jesus said He would send, so that we would need NO teachers...but the HS? Because, that's what I lean on....do you?

Yes I do lean upon the Holy Spirit every day of my miserable life. I also lean upon the majority MSS of which has been given to us by brilliant scholars. Jesus did not say that we needed no teachers. His very own brother [James] was the first and greatest among the teachers for well over three decades. He also taught that we must try all spirits both Godly and not of The Most High. He gave us the power of discernment among many other gifts to prove and guard His Word but sadly is not taught any longer. But in all of this He also requires love. Love is the greatest of all gifts and it cannot work in one direction only. It must engulf both Man and God to manifest its true existence. Hatred will be destroyed.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Well, I have a simple question for you. Do you trust in the scholars, or in the HS whom Jesus said He would send, so that we would need NO teachers...but the HS? Because, that's what I lean on....do you?

Yes I do lean upon the Holy Spirit every day of my miserable life. I also lean upon the majority MSS of which has been given to us by brilliant scholars. Jesus did not say that we needed no teachers. His very own brother [James] was the first and greatest among the teachers for well over three decades. He also taught that we must try all spirits both Godly and not of The Most High. He gave us the power of discernment among many other gifts to prove and guard His Word but sadly is not taught any longer. But in all of this He also requires love. Love is the greatest of all gifts and it cannot work in one direction only. It must engulf both Man and God to manifest its true existence. Hatred will be destroyed.

Ok. I agree with you about love. Jesus said He would not leave us as orphans..and would send a helper for us. I truly believe that one of the main reasons He gave His life for us, was not only to show us who the TRUE God was....knowing they would kill Him for it, but also so He could break the power that the "god of this world" had over us. I don't believe Paul's "take" on that, but I do believe that whatever Jesus did, was monumental. I also know that the SPIRIT of God filled me at 23 years old. I wasted a lot of years listening to "scholars" and "pastors" and whathaveyou. I should have just listened to the Spirit of God....cause, that's where I get my truth from. It contradicts much of those who think they can explain Jesus and the TRUTH He promised to show us.
But hey, I'm in the minority. I get that...I also don't really care anymore. I believe Jesus taught things so profound and simple, that we don't need scholars, pastors, books, the latest "guru" bible teacher, or anything. If you've truly encountered the Entity that is REAL, then the rest of it is bullcrap.
So, my life has been miserable, too....in too many ways to explain. I get you on that comment.
About the ONLY thing I hang on to these days, IS Jesus...but, I don't see Him as you or any mainstream Christians do.
I just don't.
If that condemns me to hell, oh well.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Talk about having God in a box, only Jesus yet when challenged would not even obey the words of Jesus as taught in the Bible.

ALL of Paul's teachings are just expounding/explaining of Jesus Teachings while he was on earth. The revelations Paul received of Jesus are these expounded teachings for the body of Christ to live knowing he would not soon return as the twelve and their Jewish only followers believed.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
Sorry to butt in here. I read all the pages and was also waiting for an answer as to why God needed or wanted people to kill lambs and other animals and burn them and make the smell go up to where God could smell it and be appeased. I was confused about that as a child of five and I'm a woman at the half century mark and am still confused. I have asked numerous pastors and teachers and I get the same reaction and eventual frustration and accusation that I am without discernment or the Holy Spirit as you got. I'm not even a vegetarian. I don't mind if the ancient Hebrews ate the meat or not. I just don't understand what God saw in it.

In fact, if I recall the Bible stories correctly, there were two brothers and one of them sacrificed an animal and that pleased God. The other one was a grower of grains or vegetables and so he offered that for God and didn't God get mad at him? I am sorry if I have that account wrong but I'm not where I can get to my KJV Bible. I never liked that story, which I first read as a child and it in fact made me terrified of God, rather than drawing me closer.

There was another story in the Old Testament where one of God's favored men was in a city and there were people who were threatening to rape the men or Angels disguised as men that were with him. So this man of God offered his daughters instead. Whoa. That was really evil. Okay I just looked that up on my phone. It was Lot. Nobody is defending that from what I can see, it's explained as giving an example of the faults even in men God saw as righteous, or close to it. Well alrighty then.

Anyway I just try to be humble and approach God with a childlike heart. I believe Jesus was his Son and he died for my sins...which makes a whole lot more sense than animals that had nothing to do with anything as far as I can see. But anytime I try to discuss that with anyone they shut me down with how can you be arrogant and question God or judge God. I don't. I'm just trying to understand what the heck I was reading. Jesus makes every bit of sense to me, but that Paul fellow who doesn't want women contributing anything to a ministry does not. I'm really not trying to pick and choose what to follow but I just don't understand. So I do the best I can and try to treat other people as I would want to be treated.

a reply to: SheeplFlavoredAgain

I hope I can help you to understand some of the things you are asking.

Animal sacrifices are something that we learn God really doesn't need. But when he set up the nation Israel he gave them, and only them a sacrificial system whereby they could approach him. God is holy and no man being a sinner may approach God without having their sin covered. The animal sacrificial system was a way men could come to God in his temple and be forgiven their sin. Of course the animal sacrifice was a temporary as the animals being used were from the corrupt sinful world as well. So when Jesus Came and died for our sins that system for forgiveness was done away with. You need to understand that Gentiles today are not subject to any sacrificial system other than that of Jesus Christ.

Angels are always depicted in the AV Bible as men and never with wings. Interesting to see that you recognize that.

In the millennial Kingdom sacrifices will be made but not for forgiveness but as a form of worship. Other than understanding that in the Jewish system no man could come to God. Why God wanted that is so we could draw nigh unto him. Today we have Christ who we come to the father through him. But God does say in his word the AV Bible that sacrifices are not really what he wants. What he really wants is a broken heart and contrite spirit.

Why God limited a women's role in certain types of ministry is what the Holy Ghost inspired to Paul. It is not Paul's teaching but commandments of God.

1Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

If God didn't want women it was for a certain reason. He did say this about one ministry God did not want women involved in and why

1Tim 2:12-15 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

He says that Eve was deceived and this some how is passed on to women in general. It is by this reason God did not want women to teach in the Assembly and try to exercise authority over men. But women were allowed to have the gift of prophecy, teaching (especially to other women and children). However it is the Holy Ghost that gives the gifts as needed to each as he wills. Women were and are needed in ministry, God only wanted them not to teach men in an open assembly. We saw that Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos in private

Ac 18:6 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

So women do teach men in a way where the husband is leading but Priscilla also participated in expounding the way of God.

Most of Paul's teachings are expounded teaching of Jesus. The times changed and Jesus was not going to return soon, so he called Paul and gave him inspired words explaining his teachings in a more detailed way than Jesus did during his earthly ministry. Women have a great role in the church and are only limited in one area and that is about teaching and taking authority of men. But at that time, and as it is today a cultural aspect is also in the application of this commandment of God.

Just read and study that AV Bible of yours every day and become so familiar with it you will be used of God because of your familiarity with it and you will learn more.

God bless your reading of his word.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Thank you so much for being kind and patient and taking the time out to discuss this with me and explain it to me. I will definitely get out my Bible and go through it very thoroughly. I read from time to time but lately, as in the past 15 years, I was bombarded by other experiences which I related to this site over the years.

For about 10 years I lived in a house plagued with demonic activity. I had my hands full dealing with that. It wasn't dramatic like the movies. Life was mostly normal. The closest I could get to a definition or description of what I was seeing the most comes from the Muslim faith: Djinn. A couple of years ago we moved and everything has been fine, so it was a relief to find it was not anything my family or I did to bring that on, but something to do with that location. However, that's all a topic for a different board. It was a difficult experience but I learned a lot from it.

I have not been without blessings that outweighed the scary things I've seen. About two years ago I had a dream about a beloved pet who had passed on. I was holding her again and next thing I knew, I was engulfed in bright white light and the most incredible feeling of love. Suddenly it didn't seem like a dream anymore but a reality more vivid than the one I woke up to. In fact, as I realized I couldn't stay indefinitely but had to wake up, I felt like I was shedding layers of my true being to return to this existence on earth that seems so artificial in comparison. I'm pretty sure that I was basically hugged by God.

I have read about other people having similar experiences, so I guess it's rare but not unheard of. I think God just wanted to remind me what's at stake, or what I would stand to lose out on if I don't stay firm and raise my family up in His love. And that love is so pure. I thought I loved my family but now I realize love down here is always a little bit tainted. We always have conditions on our love we don't even realize we are placing. But they are there. I can't remember what that pure love felt like. I only remember that I experienced it. But I can't remember the feeling of it.

Can you believe even after experiencing proof like that of God's existence, I get weak and when I read of horrible things happening to good people, I still sometimes get mad and say the same things everyone else says, like "God doesn't care or there can't be a God if that happens." I come to my senses and apologize, of course. I just don't know what gets into me sometimes.

I will reserve judgement on Paul until I refresh my reading. My inclination is to think he does interject too much of his own prejudices in relaying doctrine, but I need to return to context and prayer to see if that's really what's going on. However even if it turns out I never quite understand what's going on with Paul, I'm not going to let it be a stumbling block to more important things. There is a God, of that I'm certain because of what I experienced. It's not even a matter of faith.

What will take faith is remaining obedient to God when I'm scared, like if we are truly at the End Times and we get compelled to take the Mark of the Beast or else...but now I KNOW firsthand what I'd be giving up if I were to do such a thing. That helps strengthen me. I just worry for the rest of my family. Faith is fragile and has to be nourished constantly.

I was just reading the discussion over on the science section of this site and so many people are eager to merge with AI. I want to scream a warning but I don't think it would do any good and would just start arguing. I can't understand why people think we need to be upgraded to a new kind of human via technology. One person even commented that it would give us the experience that religion promised to give but has failed. I wish I could tell my story there, so they know God hasn't failed us, but I don't think they would be open to it. I do worry such a merging would somehow be a part of becoming one with the Beast.

I do have to say it is so hard to reconcile what I remember of the being who "hugged" me (in a non-corporeal way) to anything I read about him in the Bible. Reading about God and knowing him personally are so different. I'm very grateful Jesus made it possible that I could be lifted out of sin enough to get an experience like that. As you can see, I am not anything special and not even particularly high IQ or well educated. I am not anybody's idea of a spectacular Christian, either. I'm a shy housewife who loves and helps animals. That's it. I really don't do enough for my fellow man other than try not to be obnoxious and rude. God is just too generous.

a reply to: SheeplFlavoredAgain

I am glad I have encouraged you somewhat in your walk.

The churches today or at least I should say and good portion of them are nothing more than carriers for men who hold degrees to rule over those who don't for the sake of filthy lucre. The Church was never meant to be a non-profit 510c that is only required to give 10% of it collected income to ministry the rest is used to give the pastor and other employees, a house, a car, health, life and Auto insurance, a 401k, and a fat salary.

Recently a church had their Pastor up and go. over the last year they have had elders and guest preach. They have all commented that in six months all the money they spent on the Pastor has allowed them to pay down their loan debt the pastor put on the church organization over expansion of the building. They are one of the few that are no looking for a paid or for hire pastor. The members have taken up the ministry as found in Eph 4:11-13.

While in the mission field (15 years) I have seen devils on several occasions. And each time those that were in our house I simply stated that my Lord rebuke thee and bind thee and you are to leave here now never to return in Jesus Name and by faith I believed they would never return. I also asked the Lord if there was anything I was doing or had that lured these beings into my home. I got rid of certain very old books and gave up certain things the Lord revealed. So I know much about devils and how they trouble the saints if they can. Remember the Lord is the one who controls them not us or our words. So do all in the name of Jesus when rebuking them and do not rejoice when they go at your rebuke but rejoice in your name being written in heaven.

One day when I was a baby Christian I needed and wanted a hug from Jesus. While at a dinner at a Christians home, the Hostess came to me and gave me a warm gentle and loving hug. Then told me Jesus wanted her to hug me for him, because he wanted me to know he is in us and we are in him. Our oneness with Christ is very important to our walk and we can get off track when we deny his words and the words of God as found in scriptures. I don't have all the answers about the why's of God's actions and instructions for us but I humbly just walk in him and trust him to help me each day to live in him and he in me.

God bless, we will be praying for you.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Thank you so much for the support and prayers, ChesterJohn. I agree with what you are saying about the situation in churches. One reason I am not a member of any church, and have not been for about 34 years now is because of such a pastor. He came in bearing degrees and insisted on retranslating the Bible based on his study of Greek and Hebrew. He started preaching about tithing. Which seemed okay as we were used to it, but he also instituted some sort of tracking system with the envelopes so as he knew what each member of the congregation was giving. My mom did not like that so she used her own envelopes, yet she still received a statement every so often as a "tax receipt" of exactly how much she gave. And we were borderline poor, living paycheck to paycheck, but we noticed the pastor had a collection of expensive cars and his wife was always styled very professionally.

Then our youth minister, who was in his 20's, made it known he was considering me as a wife. I was 15 going on 16 and thought it was a pukeworthy idea. Hilarity and drama ensued as he did his best to tailor every youth sermon to grooming me for the job. I took about all of his machinations I could take until the amusement factor was gone and the ungodliness of it all disgusted our entire family.

I never went back to that church. I had been a member since I was a toddler. A few years later a friend of mine who had joined that church before I met her told me the pastor had been caught embezzling and was on the news crying and apologizing. I missed seeing that! When I told my mom she was overcome with guilt because she used to tithe with our grocery money, which meant we went with less than we could have and the money we did give never made it to do any of the Lord's work like ministering to the poor.

I tried going to my grandmother's Pentecostal church whenever I would visit her. Her minister was a lifelong friend so I thought that would be safe. Um, no...that creep tried to make a pass at my mother and something sort of like a pass at me, it was weird. Apparently he was in the habit of also taking women from the church on trips abroad to witness. Just women. His wife put up with it. And he collected cars, too.

I sometimes visit Catholic Churches with my in-laws. I have grave suspicions about the upper hierarchy of the Catholic Church, but the local churches seem focused on helping the local poor. Their sermons are focused on that. There are some aspects of Catholicm I find serene and true and others I know are corruptions. But that has been the truth of every church I have tried so far, and my mom and I tried a lot of them before we gave up and started worshipping at home. We believe in the part of the Gospel where Jesus promises that where two or more are gathered in His name, He is with them.

A neighbor of my parents had no credentials as far as we could tell, but started a church in his basement. It could get pretty noisy for us living on the other side of the shared wall. He was an immigrant from somewhere in Africa and I think that is just what their idea of church is, people coming together to worship and sing and read the Bible. Sounds good to me. But in America that sort of thing is just called Bible Study, not Church. I don't know what turned our churches into businesses. I think it is in part due to our tax laws...would that be correct?

What do you think of "mega churches"? We have many in our area because we have a lot of land available for it just outside of affluent suburbs. In read in the local paper they have coffee bars to attract members. I feel members should be attracted to the worship of God and drink their coffee at home.

I will leave this long narrative with one poignant story. A few years ago, I ran across a teenaged girl begging for money at the intersection. I gave her some and asked her story. She just wasn't happy or welcome at home. I didn't think it was safe to bring her home with me, because at the time I had my toddler with me, but I emailed a friend who was an experienced foster mother in another state and asked her what I could do to help this girl. She warned me that as an individual I would be opening our family up to considerable risk of all sorts of things from crime to lawsuits if I were to try to bring her home and let her stay with us. She advised me different things. One of the things I did try to do was find a church that had any kind of program to help the poor or homeless in my area as an interim measure just to get her out of sleeping in public buildings. I found NONE. In fact they made no mention of charity or service at all not even that I could donate to. They all referred me back to secular government programs. Only the local Catholic Church had something. I went back to look for the girl to discuss her options but she was gone from where I'd seen and talked to her before.

When I hear the accusations of atheists against the Christian community I really am at a loss for a response based on my own experiences. I know there is a God and that he loves us. But as a people, we are letting our God down in our churches.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

It is not Paul's teaching but commandments of God.

Paul the fake Apostle, I mean Apostate


www.judaismvschristianity.com...

His apostleship was unrecognized by others. Of the 22 times in the Bible where Paul is referred to as an "apostle", only twice is he referred to as an apostle by someone other than himself! These two instances came from the same person. Not from Yeshua, or any of the original apostles, but from Paul's close traveling companion and personal press secretary Luke. Both accounts are found in Luke's record of the Acts of the Apostles, (chapter 14:4,14). Here Paul is referred to as an apostle along with Barnabas. By this time in the story, Luke would have been very accustomed to Paul calling himself an apostle, and he would no doubt have been in agreement with Paul's assessment of himself. By these statistics alone, it is evident that Paul is by far his own biggest fan... and his side kick Luke was his number two fan. This leaves no one else anywhere in the Bible going on record recognizing his apostleship!

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I am going to request ATS remove your post seeing it has nothing to do with the thread. My answers to another poster do not allow you to try and derail the thread.

There are plenty of threads to post you anti-paul junk go to on of them please.

a reply to: SheeplFlavoredAgain

I don't think the idea of tithing was meant to hold anyone back.It's disappointing to see it used as a tool of control.At it's root,I feel contributing a bit for the greater good can make a big difference.I don't think the New Testament has one required to sacrifice ten percent though.The church is more then just a building, Imo helping others out takes different forms.I feel the story of the poor widow's offering illustrates this deeper.

www.biblegateway.com...

It's puzzling sometimes, getting to learn more about the Bible.I often marveled about how the church's faith kept the message alive in older times.Times, when reading and writing were only for the privileged. I like to think that the faith of the laity gave life to the spirit when the elites had failed.Fortunately, we are not alone.The Comforter is with us.

It was wise advice, of your friend to be conscious of the risk when it came to helping out that girl.It's tempting to do good,but it can have unintended consequences.Very thoughtful and inspiring to see that you did what you could to help her out.Just be cautious because sometimes when giving someone a hand,they pull you down.Don't sacrifice your needs for someone's else wants.It's frustrating sometimes wishing one could do more.Working within the limits of what you can gets easier the more you practice...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Who's derailing - you quote Paul the fake apostle - expect responses - This is the "Conspiracies in religions" Forum - did you forget?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I wasn't responding to you but a person who was questioning about things on MY thread.

You purposely came to derail and cause trouble

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

it is a shame to see the church fail in not being able to provide shelter for the poor.

One of the problem today is the IRS rules and the building dept of counties and cities that burden the churches tot he point of not being able to help.

Even for private residents they have limited in how many people may stay in their homes and for how long.

The other issue and many would come and stay but would destroy bathrooms and the other facilities that insurance policies became prohibitively expensive that it has gotten to the point many 501c can even do such a venture. Hence why she couldn't find a place for them.

Also many of those who are homeless are by choice (not saying the girl and he mother weren't) and many need medication and supervision Something the church is in capable of.

If the homeless that are illegitimate and respectful are verified then a person should take them in and help them if possible. I only pray no one would invite a criminal or insane person into their homes that would jeopardize their own lives and family.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

It a little discouraging to look at the tax and insurance aspect of it all.I didn't know in some places they could even restrict visitors in your private residence.I'm in Canada.

I want to say the 501c requiring only 10% to ministry is ass backwards.However. I don't think it was meant to be abused.Old school, like the verses mentioned from the Old Testament used to make the case for tithing .The tax laws may look at the Churches under their mandate as an a person, it would help explain that.

I don't know how common vows of poverty are.Even then the corruption could just extend to other levels.

The priests I've known seemed to have frugal ways, the pastors too.The pooled funds used properly are a good thing.We were able to build a new local high school, and many other local churches of various denominations regularly do great work in the community and abroad.

Jesus warns about the teachers of the law, before the widow gave all she had.Looks like those elites are still missing the point.How long do they think they can get away with that?They aren't fooling anybody after a certain point.

What you brought up about helping others.It really can be risky, especially if they're strangers.We need to put our families safety first, there are many ways to make a difference.Helping those closer to home, is usually easier.

Matthew 10:16

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

Food, blankets, even moral support shouldn't be underestimated.Often when people feel down on their luck, they're more receptive to ideas outside the box...

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I think it sad that if the only reason a person really gives is to have a right off at the end of the year. It is a pathetic state we've come too.

When at a church organization, I never put my name on the money I give, I may occasionally designate to which ministry it is for, but my name is never on it. No record in any church organization of what I have given. That is between the Lord and I.

I had a priest comment after he sat in (plain clothes I would have never known) on a Bible study I did, he said I knew more of the Bible than he. He however knew the Missal full of Mary and rituals and daily and hourly prayers and the sacrifice of Jesus over and over. the sun never sets of the RC sacrificial Eucharist of Jesus Christ actual body and blood. Sad to have Jesus always on the cross. While the Bible says he has "died once for all" and that those who sacrifice him daily put him to an "open shame".

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
I think it sad that if the only reason a person really gives is to have a right off at the end of the year. It is a pathetic state we've come too.

When at a church organization, I never put my name on the money I give, I may occasionally designate to which ministry it is for, but my name is never on it. No record in any church organization of what I have given. That is between the Lord and I.

The scriptures encourage us to practice giving from the heart.People can experience mixed motives, ideally the tax slips are just a formality.

I've found that which we choose to give, doesn't go unnoticed. The thread topic plays into this, because this who do the right things for the wrong reasons can create doubt in those who look up to them.That sense of control lies in attempting to place limits on the options of the faithful.

Imo, Jesus could see the challenges before us, in his life and times. Reading the gospels, and taking into account it's portrail of the religious elite illustrates the devide in this.Unfortunately, some still harbour doubts about the players instead of focusing on message.

God willing, individuals will practice personal study of the scripture and develope a closer relationship through the love of Jesus Christ.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
I had a priest comment after he sat in (plain clothes I would have never known) on a Bible study I did, he said I knew more of the Bible than he. He however knew the Missal full of Mary and rituals and daily and hourly prayers and the sacrifice of Jesus over and over. the sun never sets of the RC sacrificial Eucharist of Jesus Christ actual body and blood. Sad to have Jesus always on the cross. While the Bible says he has "died once for all" and that those who sacrifice him daily put him to an "open shame".

I'm not sure where your lament lays.Perhaps, with rituals and symbolism used by the Roman Catholic Church?

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

unbiblical rituals and symbols.

The symbol pushed by Paul was the cross and Jesus Death on it for all mankind. Many say Paul made that up but the gospels tell us Jesus Life was for a ransom for many. The teaching of Paul was just an expounding of That which is revealed but not fully explained until later after his ascension.