Hillary Was Asked to Allow the Pentagon to Send Help to Benghazi?

a reply to: projectvxn

Kind of like how the ENTIRE USAF couldn't guard the Pentagon?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Annee

Hindsight is such an easy position to take

It's also very easy to dismiss the fact that long established SOP was ignored.

You're not talking about amateurs here. You're talking Delta operators and other SOF teams in the area with SOAR assets to carry them.

This isn't about hindsight, this is about oversight.

BTW - - I would state the same no matter who it was.

"Armchair politicians" do not know the whole story (information).

NO, its about hindsight. You say there were procedures not followed. But, you don't have full information.

Its like you're picking one scene out of an entire movie.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Annee

Hindsight is such an easy position to take

It's also very easy to dismiss the fact that long established SOP was ignored.

You're not talking about amateurs here. You're talking Delta operators and other SOF teams in the area with SOAR assets to carry them.

This isn't about hindsight, this is about oversight.

BTW - - I would state the same no matter who it was.

"Armchair politicians" do not know the whole story (information).

NO, its about hindsight. You say there were procedures not followed. But, you don't have full information.

Its like you're picking one scene out of an entire movie.

Armchair politicians caused this disaster.

Nothing was ordered to go to Benghazi.

That flies in the face of even your local friggin firemen!

What the hell kind of excuse is that? Hindsight my ass.

I'm blown away they are saying Spain. Who didn't station anything closer to a country we just destroyed and knew there were terrorists there?

None of our "allies" could have done something?

Isn't the host country responsible for diplomatic security?

I hope they fry for this BS.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Annee

Hindsight is such an easy position to take

It's also very easy to dismiss the fact that long established SOP was ignored.

You're not talking about amateurs here. You're talking Delta operators and other SOF teams in the area with SOAR assets to carry them.

This isn't about hindsight, this is about oversight.

EXACTLY! Those teams of elite soldiers were stationed there to intercede and prevent the kind of carnage that occurred. The ball was not "accidentally" dropped. Someone higher up prevented our soldiers from doing what they were trained and equipped to do. They will pay for that crime...either here, or in the hereafter.

originally posted by: projectvxn
It's also very easy to dismiss the fact that long established SOP was ignored.

I have not looked into it, except a little digging in the last couple of hours but my questions is, how high up would you have to go for the SOP to be ignored?

What I came across is "Bob" delaying things for about 30 minutes, saying there was no stand-down order and the team that was supposed to move out of the annex saying that the kept asking, "now?" and "Bob" saying wait.

Looking at a timeline (who knows how accurate it is) it seems that US and Libyan forces had regained control of the Embassy in less than 2 hours.

40 minutes later they hit the annex, fight for 2 hours and 5 hours from the first shots things are back under control.

The email in the OP says 7:10 pm ET. The attack was minutes from being over.

a reply to: daskakik

How high up depends on who ignored what. Since every one in theatre did not act, then it stands to reason that the decision not to act would have to come from pretty high up.

a reply to: Annee

A delay of a half hour could be excused.

12 hours with so many assets to respond nearby cannot be.

My unit responded to the consulate of Herat incident in 2013.

We aren't a particularly special unit. We made it there in 15-20 minutes and began providing security and medevac services.

That's what QRF is for.

Those types of assets were available to the embassy in Benghazi. There's no excuse for not having sent them.

a reply to: projectvxn

That makes sense but still the time of this email is close to the end of the attack. You said in your post in the other thread that the first thing that should have been done was:

When the attack started the embassy staff would have sent out a message over secure lines, called the State Department, and then the DOD would have been informed.

I can only guess that this was done but was it? Not trying to be arbitrary, it just seems odd that everyone in theater did not act. Specifically the team at the annex which was right around the corner and a bit down the road.

What do you make of Stevens and Smith not following Strickland? They are both supposed to have died of smoke inhalation. They might have both lived if they had followed Strickland. Or did Strickland tell them wait here?

Man this tinfoil hat is itchy but I guess where I'm going with this is that maybe the decision wasn't made that high up.

a reply to: daskakik

On the ground decisions I don't know. The entire theatre essentially standing down from a fight is just unbelievable to me.

From a purely operations stand point the lack of response is completely senseless.

a reply to: projectvxn

Right, which is why I asked if that first communication was ever made. I mean, we have this email but it is timed way after that first communication should have been made which would have triggered what you say is SOP.

I believe you when you say SOP dictates that if A happens then B and C follow. It didn't happen here and one reason is that the interference was from way up high (an order to stand down) but, it could also be that the call was intercepted locally. No A would also mean no B or C.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Annee

Hindsight is such an easy position to take

It's also very easy to dismiss the fact that long established SOP was ignored.

You're not talking about amateurs here. You're talking Delta operators and other SOF teams in the area with SOAR assets to carry them.

This isn't about hindsight, this is about oversight.

BTW - - I would state the same no matter who it was.

"Armchair politicians" do not know the whole story (information).

NO, its about hindsight. You say there were procedures not followed. But, you don't have full information.

Its like you're picking one scene out of an entire movie.

Sometimes I can't tell if you say something crazy vile, or if I'm just taking it wrong. This is one of those times.

Are you implying that there is ever a GOOD reason to leave our fellow citizens hanging in the wind, without protection while they are brutally murdered? And does it really matter WHAT lead up to this...as in your "part of a movie" comment? I don't particularly care what lead up to the killings. Unlike Clinton's "what does it matter" comment, someone's murder always matters. ALM - American Lives Matter. And if our government was to blame...someone needs to pay. And if they decided to cover it up to protect themselves...someone needs to hang.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Annee

Hindsight is such an easy position to take

It's also very easy to dismiss the fact that long established SOP was ignored.

You're not talking about amateurs here. You're talking Delta operators and other SOF teams in the area with SOAR assets to carry them.

This isn't about hindsight, this is about oversight.

BTW - - I would state the same no matter who it was.

"Armchair politicians" do not know the whole story (information).

NO, its about hindsight. You say there were procedures not followed. But, you don't have full information.

Its like you're picking one scene out of an entire movie.

Sometimes I can't tell if you say something crazy vile, or if I'm just taking it wrong. This is one of those times.

Are you implying that there is ever a GOOD reason to leave our fellow citizens hanging in the wind, without protection while they are brutally murdered?

I never said or implied anything like that.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Are you implying that there is ever a GOOD reason to leave our fellow citizens hanging in the wind, without protection while they are brutally murdered?

Good reason for you or a good reason for those involved?

Like I said (although indirectly) to projectvxn, maybe the reason didn't go all the way up.

a reply to: daskakik

Once it makes it to the Pentagon, and it most certainly would have, a whole series of decisions would have been made quickly. As the events show none of those decisions were ever put into place.

That is a very high decision process. You're talking about a priority asset under attack. That's not something you let a company commander handle. That's cabinet level, White House orders kind of stuff.

originally posted by: projectvxn
From a purely operations stand point the lack of response is completely senseless.

Which means there was probably something embarrassing on the Annex/Embassy grounds ... something which, by comparison, might make Ollie North look like an alter boy.

I think 'the tell' is in how Leon Panetta (a very very questionable guy) took on the role of 'cover man' after the fiasco was all wrapped up. Remember, he was CIA before he was Sec Def.

a reply to: projectvxn

You are missing the point. The call to the pentagon has to be made in order for things to happen. What if it wasn't?

This whole affair stunk from the beginning to the end of the official chronology.It sounds to me that those poor souls we're sacrificed by (fill in blank)because (?)purposely or negligently.

originally posted by: TDawg61
This whole affair stunk from the beginning to the end of the official chronology.It sounds to me that those poor souls we're sacrificed by (fill in blank)because (?)purposely or negligently.

Sounds like that's what you want it to be.

If you don't have all the facts, you can only speculate.

"Armchair" politicians are just that. They are on the outside, looking only at what is reported or speculated.

We are in "war", whether declared or not. It's complicated, there is miscommunications, faulty information, sometimes quick decisions made on limited info, etc. This isn't black and white. It isn't "pick up phone, give directions, directions followed". Its not a movie.

I am not defending anyone. I am being realistic that "this is war, crap happens". It is not "tidy, tied with a bow".

And unless you are actually there, making decisions, you don't really know. All you can do is guess.

a reply to: Annee
First, you deny saying there is ever any good time to sacrifice lives, then you say "we're at war, crap happens". Which is it? Do you even read what you type?

originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: Annee
First, you deny saying there is ever any good time to sacrifice lives, then you say "we're at war, crap happens". Which is it? Do you even read what you type?

You gonna deny mistakes happen and crap happens in war?

Go for it.