The Case of the Man with No Brain: Where does Consciousness Really Come From?

The Case of the Man with very little Brain material.

I wouldn't think this disproves the brain.

a reply to: SentientCentenarian

You are correct.

As i mentioned (in the very 1st sentence), it's not my title. But the man essentially only had a "very thin layer of lining" and the brain stem left - his head was pretty much hollow. That in itself is mind-boggling to me (pun intended)

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Urantia1111

that would make a lot of sense to me.

However, what does that mean for these animals, which don't have a brain at all? Are they not conscious?

the sea lily, sea stars, jellyfish, coral, sea cucumbers, sea sponges, sea urchin, sea anemone, sea squirts, and Portuguese man-o-war

Perhaps not.

Some teachings say that lower animals are not occupied by a consciousness but even plants are said to be aware of their surroundings to some degree.

Good question though.

a reply to: Urantia1111

I'm so glad you brought up plants!

From what I understand, many plants have demonstrated that they respond to all sorts of stimuli that we wouldn't typically expect (playing music for example)

Here's an interesting article that talks about some of this "The Intelligent Plant" www.newyorker.com...

I have believed for a long time that the brain is just a transducer for the mind, which is in another (unknown) place...

originally posted by: FamCore
Not my title. This is from Unknown Country (other sources can also be found below)

Consciousness.. where does it come from?????

It is widely accepted in the scientific community that what we refer to as "consciousness", is..

generated solely by electro-chemical processes in the brain, a fortunate byproduct of billions of neurons recording and processing sensory information as it comes in.

A rare medical condition from a case back in 2007 brings up some questions. Check this out:

In 2007, a 44-year-old civil servant in France was admitted to a medical clinic due to weakness that he was experiencing in his left leg. The doctors performed a CT scan of his brain, suspecting a neurological cause, especially considering that the patient had a similar problem with his leg when he was fourteen, due to the need for the adjustment of a ventriculoatrial shunt that had been installed in his cranium when he was six months old.

The results of the CT scan shocked the doctors: this man's cranium was almost an entirely hollow cavity. What was there was a very thin cortical mantle, basically what was left of the brain itself, lining the interior of his skull. This was due to a massive enlargement of the ventricular system, a cluster of four cavities in the center of the brain that produce the cerebrospinal fluid that cushions our brain and spinal cord.

Caption:
Massive ventricular enlargement, in a patient with normal social functioning
(A) CT; (B, C) T1-weighted MRI, with gadolinium contrast; (D) T2-weighted MRI. LV=lateral ventricle. III=third ventricle. IV=fourth ventricle. Arrow=Magendie's foramen. The posterior fossa cyst is outlined in (D).

Photo from The Lancet article, "Brain of a white-collar worker", see link at bottom of thread

Unknown Country Source: www.unknowncountry.com...



IFL Science article on man missing most of his brain: www.iflscience.com...

Original published report of this medical case from 2007: http:// www. thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736 (07)61127-1/fulltext
Take out the spaces from TheLancet URL

Article describing a 'ventriculoatrial shunt' emedicine.medscape.com...

To me, this isn't much of a surprise - I think about animals that don't have brains and it would appear that they are conscious. But what do you think ATS? Where do we think consciousness comes from?

I was never here, I did not write this response, rather the meat puppet I presently occupy did.

Personally, I don't believe in reality as a real state, i look construct as purely virtual reality. There is no free will, there are no choices, these are simply illusions propagated by the system due to a set of programmed rules anchoring our meat puppet avatars to this virtual reality.

We are not here, we, the real we, are somewhere else tethered to these avatars by some presently unknow, but sufficiently advanced technology. Therefore, with limited plasticity in that data acquisition and control system we call a brain, tethering is still probable.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: FamCore
Not my title. This is from Unknown Country (other sources can also be found below)

Consciousness.. where does it come from?????

It is widely accepted in the scientific community that what we refer to as "consciousness", is..

generated solely by electro-chemical processes in the brain, a fortunate byproduct of billions of neurons recording and processing sensory information as it comes in.

A rare medical condition from a case back in 2007 brings up some questions. Check this out:

In 2007, a 44-year-old civil servant in France was admitted to a medical clinic due to weakness that he was experiencing in his left leg. The doctors performed a CT scan of his brain, suspecting a neurological cause, especially considering that the patient had a similar problem with his leg when he was fourteen, due to the need for the adjustment of a ventriculoatrial shunt that had been installed in his cranium when he was six months old.

The results of the CT scan shocked the doctors: this man's cranium was almost an entirely hollow cavity. What was there was a very thin cortical mantle, basically what was left of the brain itself, lining the interior of his skull. This was due to a massive enlargement of the ventricular system, a cluster of four cavities in the center of the brain that produce the cerebrospinal fluid that cushions our brain and spinal cord.

Caption:
Massive ventricular enlargement, in a patient with normal social functioning
(A) CT; (B, C) T1-weighted MRI, with gadolinium contrast; (D) T2-weighted MRI. LV=lateral ventricle. III=third ventricle. IV=fourth ventricle. Arrow=Magendie's foramen. The posterior fossa cyst is outlined in (D).

Photo from The Lancet article, "Brain of a white-collar worker", see link at bottom of thread

Unknown Country Source: www.unknowncountry.com...



IFL Science article on man missing most of his brain: www.iflscience.com...

Original published report of this medical case from 2007: http:// www. thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736 (07)61127-1/fulltext
Take out the spaces from TheLancet URL

Article describing a 'ventriculoatrial shunt' emedicine.medscape.com...

To me, this isn't much of a surprise - I think about animals that don't have brains and it would appear that they are conscious. But what do you think ATS? Where do we think consciousness comes from?

Step one in this conversation : define consciousness. Animals without a brain may appear conscious, as in, they react to stimuli. This doesn't mean they engage in higher thought or are self aware. They respond to stimuli through a nervous system, mainly. Hell, a computer responds to stimuli. Anyway, towards the op, he does not lack a brain. It's just different.

a reply to: FamCore

There is an extended NDE case where the BRAIN NEUROSURGEON HIMSELF experienced prolonged consciousness OUTSIDE HIS BODY and while his BRAIN WAS FLATLINED.

The super-rationalist naysayers have no adequate answers for his case. They blather the usual--but it does NOT fit in his case.

I'm blocking on his name, at the moment. Maybe I can track it down later.

He has a book out. A good one, actually.

a reply to: FamCore

Reading your post, I remember reading about how heart transplant recipients sometimes pick up memories or habits of the heart donor. Here's an article about it.

Can An Organ Transplant Change A Recipient's Personality? Cell Memory Theory Affirms 'Yes'

a reply to: BO XIAN

www.amazon.com...=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=brain+neurosurgeon+%2B+NDE

Dr Eben Alexander III . . . brain neurosurgeon . . .

. . .
Then came the day when Dr. Alexander’s own brain was attacked by an extremely rare illness. The part of the brain that controls thought and emotion—and in essence makes us human— shut down completely. For seven days Alexander lay in a hospital bed in a deep coma. Then, as his doctors weighed the possibility of stopping treatment, Alexander’s eyes popped open. He had come back.

Alexander’s recovery is by all accounts a medical miracle. But the real miracle of his story lies elsewhere. While his body lay in coma, Alexander journeyed beyond this world and encountered an angelic being who guided him into the deepest realms of super-physical existence. There he met, and spoke with, the Divine source of the universe itself.

This story sounds like the wild and wonderful imaginings of a skilled fantasy writer. But it is not fantasy. Before Alexander underwent his journey, he could not reconcile his knowledge of neuroscience with any belief in heaven, God, or the soul. That difficulty with belief created an empty space that no professional triumph could erase. Today he is a doctor who believes that true health can be achieved only when we realize that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition.
. . .

IIRC, from reading the book, at least the part of his brain that controls thought and emotion was, per the sensors, inoperative, dead, out, flat lined. for the 7 days.

I have a friend who works in a medical research lab, performing testing on mice. They once had 1 mouse that acted a little strange but overall had a normal life. They figured it was just reacting to the test chemicals. Ultimately during dissection of this mouse they found it had no brain whatsoever!

Will we have to wait decades for the scientific community to reassess their faulty assumptions and conclusions?

Or will they just choose to conveniently ignore this?

And when will the apology for ridiculing the people that were actually right all along be forthcoming? All that arrogant certainty, all those vicious attacks and all that institutional ostracism.. And then it turns out that they were wrong all along, it turns out that in their ignorance they were being used to cover up the real nature of reality. With their army of pseudo-skeptics acting like conditioned attack dogs.

So when can we expect that apology to be forthcoming? These people have impeded the progress of humanity for decades because of their obstinate and narrow-minded arrogance. They have set us back from novel discoveries and new exciting fields of research. Childishly bullying the people that were sober enough to challenge their flawed premise and their flawed conclusions.

If we need an apology from someone for wearing a shirt with scantily clad cartoon women on it I think we need an apology from these enemies of progress because they are directly responsible for having perpetuated this false idea of reality that has been such an instrumental part in keeping humanity enslaved. Their false scientific hegemon controlling our minds and restricting our thoughts, all with that official stamp of approval.. and of course that other stamp, that of labelling dissidents as crazy or mentally ill.

I'll be waiting for that apology but I won't be holding my breath.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Maybe we can and just haven't yet? Whether due to lack of understanding or "spirit" only being EM interactive? Not saying it is the case, just spitballing.

Gethyped explained it the way I'm understanding this as well. The cavity enlargement happened over the duration of this man's life to date. We have a decent knowledge behind the mechanisms of neuroplasticity, and what potential this brings. The fact he has an IQ of 75 seems to point to the obvious, that consciousness and intellectual capacities reside in the cranium, of which he has and within the matter that while mostly absent, is still there.

There's no hard evidence for consciousness existing independent of matter, and yes I've read a great many articles and threads on ATS from people who really want to believe otherwise, but the poor reasoning falls short when you apply a little common-sense.

a reply to: charolais

what an interesting story. I imagine a mentally retarded mouse behaviorally, less aware, less insight.



I've seen cases of radical hemispherectomy, where half the brain is removed, resulting in someone going on to earn a college degree. Then again, i've seen a dude spend the last 50 years of his life with severe mental defect after having his head grazed by a bullet. The brain is remarkable for its wide range of unpredictable behaviors.

a reply to: charolais

VERY cool - do you know if they had documented this? Seems too important not to!

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: charolais
I've seen cases of radical hemispherectomy, where half the brain is removed, resulting in someone going on to earn a college degree. Then again, i've seen a dude spend the last 50 years of his life with severe mental defect after having his head grazed by a bullet. The brain is remarkable for its wide range of unpredictable behaviors.

You said it - quite remarkable. I never knew your brain uses so much metabolic energy - from what I've read, it consists of approximately 2% of your body's mass, yet it burns on average 20% of the calories - it is responsible for so many things so that's not all that surprising, but using "mental energy" is also a calorie burner, and it's burning them when you sleep too

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

You are hoping for an apology from the high priests of the Religion of Scientism?



We might well see palm trees at the South Pole first.

S& F

So i dont forget i need to research this

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Such a perspective has NO remotely rational, fitting explanation for the brain neurosurgeon's experiences cited above--Dr Eben Alexander III. No explanation. None.

All their trite explanations simply do NOT FIT his case.

And he used to be of the same perspective as those trite explanations. So he knows both sides of all those arguments. He shoots them down decisively in his well done book.