Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No sir, the catalyst for the end of this age was Israel being regathered into the land a 2nd time. First was the Babylonian exile. Hitler was a crazy chap, but not the coming man of sin. Also, the Roman Empire didn't end when the western leg collapsed, it carried on as the Byzantine Empire for another 1000 years before being conquered. Remember that the statue in Daniel 2 had 2 legs of iron.

you are talking about the prophecies in revelations? what if someone decides to reinterpret the prophecies as instructions, a recipe for the apocalypse, and intentionally tries to jump start the end of the world?

...or the ravings of an individual with dementia...

Å99

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

The empire of the Beast hates the Bible, YHWH, and Christians/Jews. Now, there is a sect of Islam that thinks they need to create chaos to hasten the return of their Mahdi, they are trying to fulfil their end time scenario, it just so happens that it is the same end time scenario as Revelation, yet their Mahdi is our antichrist.

and your messiah is their antichrist?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Here mate:

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The 8th Empire (the Beast empire) is a revival of the 7th empire. It had a deadly wound, seemed to disappear, and will revive at the very end. John was alive during the 6th kingdom/empire which was the Roman Empire, it moves it's Capitol to Constantinople and was conquered by the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the 15th century.

The 8th Kingdom/Beast is a revival of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Hehe, seriously? Nope, the beast who is wounded is Caesar, the word Caesar shares (pun unintended) etymology with shear and scar. Julius had this name since he was delivered by caesarian section. And Caesar is also a Roman title. You see the same name in Rus. Tsar, Gr. Καίσαρ, Fr. César and Ger. Kaiser.

After the fall of Rome in the fifth century when the Catholic Church took over the Curia, the empire had already split up (ref. etymology of Caesar and the wound that healed) in a Roman and Byzantine schism. When the Roman Empire fell, the Church initially crowned the French Merovingians to be the new emperors/caesars of the new Roman Empire, but «The Merovingian rule ended in March 752 when Pope Zachary formally deposed Childeric III. Zachary's successor, Pope Stephen II, confirmed and anointed Pepin the Short in 754, beginning the Carolingian monarchy.» (source). «The greatest Carolingian monarch was Charlemagne, who was crowned Emperor by Pope Leo III at Rome in 800.» (source) The Long-Haired Merovingians were hunted down and nearly erased from the face of the Earth, but it appears at least one of them showed up 100 years later, in Norway of all places. Wearing his hair long, Harald Fairhair conquered all of Norway and gathered all the different Norwegian nations under one crown. His own.

By the time the Carolingians died out in the 12th century, the Crusades were put in motion, and the Merovingian claim of Jerusalem laid the foundation for the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the forming of the Cistercian order, the Knights Templar and the Crusades. Germany was by this time the heart of the Holy Roman Empire. And the line of Roman emperors from 800 to the 19th century were

Emperors of the Romans:

Carolingian dynasty

Guideschi dynasty

Carolingian dynasty

Bosonid dynasty

Unruoching dynasty

Holy Roman Emperors

Ottonian (Saxon) dynasty

Salian (Frankish) dynasty

Supplinburg dynasty

Staufen (or Hohenstaufen) dynasty

Welf dynasty

Staufen (or Hohenstaufen) dynasty

House of Luxembourg

House of Wittelsbach

House of Luxembourg

House of Habsburg

House of Wittelsbach

House of Habsburg-Lorraine

«The Holy Roman Empire was dissolved by the last Emperor (who had additionally styled himself as the Emperor of Austria since 1804) as a result of the collapse of the polity during the Napoleonic wars.
[...]
The title of Emperor became defunct in Western Europe after the deposition of Romulus Augustulus in 476 AD; both the title and connection between Emperor and Church continued in the Eastern Roman Empire until 1453, when it fell to the forces of the Ottoman Empire.» (source)

edit on 12-7-2016 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Western Rome collapsed, but the Roman Empire didn't fall, it just moved it's capital to Constantinople and it continued for another 1000 years. The Roman Empire fell in 1452 AD I believe, don't quote me on the precise year. Then it was conquered by the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

People forget to factor in the fact that the statue in Daniel's vision in chapter 2 had two legs, not just one. The legs of iron which was the Roman Empire had a western and eastern leg.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Western Rome collapsed, but the Roman Empire didn't fall, it just moved it's capital to Constantinople and it continued for another 1000 years. The Roman Empire fell in 1452 AD I believe, don't quote me on the precise year. Then it was conquered by the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

People forget to factor in the fact that the statue in Daniel's vision in chapter 2 had two legs, not just one. The legs of iron which was the Roman Empire had a western and eastern leg.

The Eastern Empire fell to the Ottomans in 1453 AD and lasted until Atatürk came and conquered the Ottoman Empire and founded the Republic of Turkey. Ottomans lasted until a few years after WW1 when their former empire consisting of what we would call the Muslim world today-- fell to Atatürk and his liberal and humanistic reforms. Western Europe has since then developed into a democratic trade union. Turkey is still merely Turkey, and the Arab world struggle with wars and inner schisms and sectarianism. The last Roman Emperor was Francis II of the Habsburg-Lorraine House, and reigned as emperor of the Western Roman Empire until 6 August 1806. After that Napoleon had his wee empire, and the Habsburgs moved their focus towards Austria and Hungary where they ruled as emperors until 1918 when Emperor Charles relinquished power (source).

Edit: Also look into the secret Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916-17 where the Ottoman territories were split between France and UK under Russian consent ==> en.wikipedia.org...

Edit 2: Also, lets not forget the Russian emperors, the Russian Tsars:
«The list started with a semi-legendary Prince of Novgorod Rurik sometime in the mid 9th century (862) and ended with the Emperor of All Russia Nicholas II who abdicated in 1917, and was executed with his family in 1918.» (source)

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

*star*

Sounds about right. People don't usually realize the Byzantine Empire was still the Roman Empire. Just the eastern leg of it. And you're right, it was conquered by the Islamic caliphate that "died" in 1924 I believe. It will revive into another 10 kingdom caliphate at the end of time, it's the revived 7th empire/mountain.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Atatürk abolished the Sunni Caliphate in 1924. Two years earlier he had abolished the Sultanate (in 1922). Atatürk had a moderate eye to Islam, and said that «The religion of Islam will be elevated if it will cease to be a political instrument, as had been the case in the past.» While the typical rule among Muslims is to pray towards Mecca five times a day, Atatürk said three times a day should be sufficient. He abolished Hijabs in schools (and he established thousands of schools) and «The Hat Law of 1925 introduced the use of Western-style hats instead of the fez» (source).

However, Atatürk were merciless towards dissidents and his hands were crimson red from his rivals' and critics' blood, but he gave women equal rights and abolished the use of Arabic and introduced the Latinised Turkish alfabet. Atatürk was one hell of a guy, but not someone you'd like to have as your enemy. Today Turkey is a member of NATO and you can buy beer and bacon there. I just love Turkey. They could be nicer to the Kurds though, I'm sure they could come to some arrangement.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: fryingfish
Oh, another funny guy huh?

Yes.. I'm hilarious.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

*star*

Sounds about right. People don't usually realize the Byzantine Empire was still the Roman Empire. Just the eastern leg of it. And you're right, it was conquered by the Islamic caliphate that "died" in 1924 I believe. It will revive into another 10 kingdom caliphate at the end of time, it's the revived 7th empire/mountain.

so how close are we now, by your estimate?

a reply to: TzarChasm

The Eighth hill which was also at some point counted among the seven hills of Rome, which is home of the Roman Curia and thus the Beast-- is the Vatican Hill. The traditional seven hills of Rome are;

Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
Caelian Hill (Cælius, Celio)
Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)
(source)

«The Vatican Hill was included within the city limits of Rome during the reign of Pope Leo IV, who, between 848 and 852, expanded the city walls to protect St. Peter's Basilica and the Vatican. Thus, Vatican Hill has been within the walls and city limits of Rome for over 1100 years.» (source)

a reply to: TzarChasm

You'll see Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Sudan, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Jordan align together into a Caliphate. They hate Saudi Arabia and will nuke Mecca. Remember 4 of the 33 titles the OT prophets use for the antichrist are "King of Babylon", "The Assyrian", "Prince of Tyre" and "Pharoah of Egypt".

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's not Rome friend, that's an outdated method of understanding Mystery Babylon the Great. It's Mecca. Arabs don't pitch their tents in Rome, it's not a city in the desert, and it's not beside a sea. Mecca is the richest city on Earth, and has made the entire world fornicate with her for her wine, which is oil.

The Vatican will answer for its pagan idolatry, but there is no prophecy in the OT where the Lord judges a non-Muslim nation when He returns. Nobody cares about what the Vatican says. And Catholicism doesn't deny the relationship between the Father and the Son. They are all mideast nations the Lord wars against. Chart out the nation's in Psalm 82 and Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Remember, the Vatican isn't the only city that sits on 7 hills, so does Mecca. Google it.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

You seriously need to eat your vitamins, dude.

originally posted by: Seede
... and word changed to suit your doctrine. You have also not addressed the entire subject which was John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 with the premise of the verses before and after in contextual thought.

Cause I already addressed it many times on ATS, and received no logical reasonable responses and a lot of distractions like you ignoring the phrase "the beginning of the creation by God" now. Or more pot calling the kettle black as you use the KJV and a translation from Hebrew to English that still uses Hebrew words that are easily translatable, keeping it nice and vague to suit a doctrine and religious agenda, just like the KJV does with the word "Hallelujah", which means "praise Jah!" (and a sneaky deception in John 1:1 which could have been corrected in the NKJV but wasn't, as is the case with many other popular translations demonstrating the theological bias of their translators and publishers, as well as Matthew 7:13,14 quite nicely, i.e. providing evidence). Please don't ignore what comes after 3:21 in the video below:

Video below: after 5:15 is additional information that you might as well skip to go to part 2 instead that I won't link now. Part 2 is clearer but I'd really like someone acknowledging the definitions for the word "god" for a change when they're spreading their views regarding John 1:1 (or anywhere else where Jesus is referred to as a god, a divine being or even "mighty god", see part 2; as if they want people to remain ignorant and in darkness regarding these definitions and how the word "god" can be and clearly is used with different meanings in the bible in different contexts):


And this comment about the concept of seeing God is related to what is said in the video above around 1:40 - 2:03 (which brings up John 1:18, which is important to consider if you want to spread your views concerning John 1:1 and whatever interpretations you added after quoting a bible that has made deceptive translation choices and added complete sentences such as in 1 John 5:7 to suit the Trinitarian doctrine in your comment; for which there is plenty of evidence available). The videos above may also give some people a clue why the Hebrew translation you used used "Elohiym" twice in John 1:1, while translating the rest to english. Muslims do something similar with the Arabic word for God: Allah. Keeping the word in Arabic while talking in English.

More evidence concerning John 1:1 and your false accusation of "word[s] changed to suit your doctrine" starting at 6:28 in the video below:

Trinitarians doing the 'Eugenie C. Scott's Haeckel's embryo fraud excuse and brush under the carpet' thingy ('oh, it's no big deal, please look away, we've got this mountain of other evidence', i.e. cards to play):
Should 1 John 5:7 be in the Bible?

nikkie2christ & Barbsinclair (The KJV is inconsistent p 1) (it would be a shame to waste time making certain arguments if you miss the phrase that starts with "The King James Version is a good bible...." around 2:30 in part 2)

Don't miss the stuff about the phrase "Hallelujah" towards the end in the video below where you can see how some bible translations will translate it deceptively to "Praise the LORD" in what those translators would refer to as the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures). Not that I expect you to be the type that would know or care about the significance of them translating it that way in the Hebrew Scriptures but leaving it as "Hallelujah" in the Christian Greek Scriptures (a.k.a. New Testament), but I can hope or just mention and link it anyway, just in case anyone does care:

JW ARCHIVES DIVINE NAME JHWH YHWH JEHOVAH NWT NIV COMPARE.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

You'll see Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Sudan, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Jordan align together into a Caliphate. They hate Saudi Arabia and will nuke Mecca. Remember 4 of the 33 titles the OT prophets use for the antichrist are "King of Babylon", "The Assyrian", "Prince of Tyre" and "Pharoah of Egypt".

something to keep an eye out for, i suppose. is there a deadline or will i have to hold my breath indefinitely?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Mecca is the richest city on Earth

Dubai... one of the seven emirates that make up the country...located on the emirate's northern coastline...global city and business hub of the Middle East. It is also a major transport hub for passengers and cargo...22nd most expensive city in the world and the most expensive city in the Middle East
wikipedia-Dubai

Veeery Interesting.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I dunno, it's silly to set dates like some Christians do. But depending on when a "generation" is 2037 might be a final date, or it could begin soon in the next year or so. I think in my lifetime if I live to a normal old age.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: NOTurTypical

You seriously need to eat your vitamins, dude.

Okay, instead of mocking me, tell me a prophecy in the OT where the Lord destroys a nation that is in Europe or outside the middle east when He returns.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

The OT is about stuff leading up to the Roman Empire. There were empires before the Roman one as well. Starting with Egypt and the Assyrians, then Babylon and Persia, Greece, then the sixth is pagan Rome (active in the time of John of Patmos). Seventh (that only ruled a short while) is the Merovingian emperors, and the Eighth (which is the Beast itself and emerges out of the ashes of the Old Empire, healing its deadly wound) is the Holy Roman Emperors and the revived Roman Empire. All are now fallen and the last we saw of the Beast was Hitler acting out the Little Horn prophecies. It's done. Only remaining is the False Prophet, the Pope, and according to their own prophecies (though disputed) the sitting Francis is the last one, and that Rome will be destroyed during his reign ==> en.wikipedia.org...