Why Do People Think Prayer and Action are Exclusive Concepts?

a reply to: NthOther

Matthew 18
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

John 16
Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

John 15
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

What I want to know is..."What are you guys praying for?" I mean, if the promise is true, why aren't all your prayers working?

a reply to: windword

What does it matter to you? Other than as a reason to act out your sociopathy and inflate your ego?

Someone could volunteer at a soup kitchen all day long, say a prayer at the end of their "shift", and you'd criticize them for being ineffective--completely ignoring everything else they did that day.

Again, what does it matter to you if people pray? Action and prayer are not exclusive.

a reply to: NthOther

Action and prayer are not exclusive.

That's not what Jesus said. He promised that if you pray, and ask God for anything in Jesus' name, then HE will DO it.

do do͞o/ verb 1. perform (an action, the precise nature of which is often unspecified). "something must be done about the city's traffic"

If you don't believe that, then why the call to prayer?

a reply to: windword

Does Jesus have a monopoly on prayer?

You mistakenly assume I'm a Christian. Understandable, but inaccurate.

Again, what does it matter to you?

a reply to: NthOther

Again, what does it matter to you?

Hey! You're the one you made the thread asking "Why Do People Think Prayer and Action are Exclusive Concepts?".

The Christian God doesn't separate prayer from [His] action. Most people who are calling for prayer are calling for prayer to the Christian God, in my opinion. Who do you pray to, Allah?

The Christian God promises to answer the prayers of the faithful, so according to scripture and Christian doctrine their prayers should be being answered. (ACTION!)

Since we are still experiencing these mass shootings and global terrorism events, I have to wonder what these faithful Christians are praying for!

a reply to: windword

Why does it bother you so much what Christians do when they're not giving their time and money to noble causes (because they do so at a much higher rate than unbelievers, you know)?

a reply to: NthOther

Why does it bother you that I answered your question with logic and Christian scripture. Why did you post this thread, so you could belittle those of us who have legitimate answers for you?

Why won't you answer my question? You say you're not a Christian, so what God do you pray to when you hear the call to prayer? Does your God answer prayer? Why do you pray when you hear about awful things happening?

a reply to: windword

What "legitimate answer"?

Your personal (and erroneous) interpretation of one religion's writings taken entirely out-of-context?

a reply to: NthOther

What "legitimate answer"?

The scripture I cited, which is only a small portion of scriptural promise on the subject.

Why Do People Think Prayer and Action are Exclusive Concepts? Why? Because God answers prayer, supposedly!

Your personal (and erroneous) interpretation of one religion's writings taken entirely out-of-context?

What out of context? Jesus clearly promises to answer prayer. How is Christian scripture erroneous.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will remain--so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

If these scriptures are to be taken as true, then what are faithful Christians praying/asking for, anyway?

a reply to: windword

You're trying really, really hard to make this about Christianity.

It isn't. It's about the tendency of non-believers to think that prayer and action are exclusive concepts; or that one is a substitute for the other.

You're trying to make the thread about the efficacy of prayer.

It isn't. It's about the tendency of non-believers to think that prayer and action are exclusive concepts; or that one is a substitute for the other.

a reply to: NthOther

You're trying really, really hard to make this about Christianity.

I thought we're a Christian nation.....LOL! What God do you pray to, and does your God answer prayer?

It's about the tendency of non-believers to think that prayer and action are exclusive concepts; or that one is a substitute for the other.

Non-believers are constantly being told that God answers prayer. It's not true that prayer and action are not exclusive, in Christiantiy. Jesus says that you MUST ask, then God will "DO". Jesus only died for the sins of people who ask him for salvation, according to the doctrine of Christianity. Praying and doing are one in the same. Christians aren't saved through actions or deeds, but through faith. Everything is done through faith. Faith and prayer are the actions.

That's why!

originally posted by: NthOther
I don't know if they're consciously manipulating people into thinking this for their ideological purposes, or if they're actually dense enough to believe this is what happens. In either case...

It is possible to pray and volunteer for disaster relief. In fact, prayer and service to others are highly complementary, and by no means exclusive.

It is possible to pray while giving blood. In fact, prayer and service to others are highly complementary, and by no means exclusive.

Is is possible to pray and donate to cancer research. In fact, prayer and service to others are highly complementary, and by no means exclusive.

Thank you for reducing atheists down to "rabid" idiots who you assume can't make two and two equal four.

For your information, atheists who say things like that often do see people who think that praying is enough, and that the rest is "in god's hands." I have literally been told that by quite a few religious people before.

But I have also seen what you state--people doing both.

And I have also seen many atheists who do innumerable acts of donation and kindness and aid, all without praying or being promised some heavenly afterlife.

I fail to really grasp why you felt a need to pigeon hole atheists in such a way as to make it seem like we're idiots. This must be that whole judgment thing about which your Jesus warned you not to partake.

People who pray (the religious) are far, far more likely to be involved in community service projects and to donate money to charitable causes (look it up yourself).

Ummm...
Atheists more generous than religious when helping others
Atheists are the Most Generous--Even Without Heavenly Reward!
Are Religious People Really More Generous Than Atheists? A New Study Puts That Myth to Rest
Atheists More Motivated by Compassion than the Faithful

There are many more discussions on this matter, but I think that many studies that say religious people are more giving take into account the semi-mandatory tithing they give to their church. I don't think that this should be considered, as it is more or less a mandatory giving, and isn't comparable to someone giving because they truly want to with zero strings attached.

originally posted by: NthOther
It's about the tendency of non-believers to think that prayer and action are exclusive concepts; or that one is a substitute for the other.

Where is this tendency that you discuss proven? Or are you just complaining about it from personal experience?

I mean, do you have empirical evidence that shows that the average--or even just the "rabid"--atheist assumes that a religious person only prays and does not act?

Call me nuts, but this seems like a fabricated claim based on an ignorant stereotype of atheists. But, I ask you to prove me wrong.

But if you can not prove that your claim about atheists is accurate, I ask that you stop spreading stereotypes about atheists. What do you accomplish by doing that?

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: TechniXcality

Sky fairys cannot effect change, you have to be the change you want to see, otherwise it's just differed responsibility.

Did you even read the OP, or did you just jump straight to being as insulting as you can like some offended SJW?

Insulting, offended, SJW!? I think you must be confused, and I apologize if any of your magical feelings were hurt.

Prayer and action can, and often do, accompany each other. What do you care if someone prays while donating money? What do you care if someone prays while providing emergency medical services?

Often in times of crisis people pray or cry out, I don't have any problem with people praying, I do however have problems with family's who refuse medical treatment and allow their loved ones to die believing they can pray the illness away, that's a travesty.

You just don't like people praying, regardless of what good they may be doing in the world.

I don't like the idea of removing personal responsibility, I don't like the idea of a all power God figure because if he exists surely he's a sadistic prick and I wouldn't want anything to do with him anyway, and please, stop telling me what I like and dislike

Which is probably a lot more than most of the people here complaining about it.

You do you, you asked a question and I answered it, good luck in your thread.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: windword

What does it matter to you? Other than as a reason to act out your sociopathy and inflate your ego?

Oh my.

So you made this thread just in case someone commented with an opposing viewpoint so that you could call them a sociopathic egomaniac?

The hypocrisy is strong here.

And it's the atheists who are being "rabid", is it?

My word, you can't pray online without being criticized by one of the millions of people reading?

Golly.

Do you need a safe space?

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: NthOther
"Why don't you stop praying and do something?"

Rabid Atheists the world over

Stopped reading there.

This is a rant.

I'll leave you with this, though:

Jesus discouraged public prayer.

No he didn't, He discouraged praying as the Pharisees did, not with a pure heart but just in order to look more spiritual than the commoners. Jesus was condemning the motive of the public prayers, not the location of them. (Corporate prayer/Intersession).

Can't say as I disagree with folks who encourage proactive responses over passive psychic magnetism. Prayer is pointless anyway...it's all part of the plan, right? So it's going to happen or it isn't. Predetermination and whatnot. Isn't it ironic, really? Having all of existence pinned firmly under Odin's cosmic thumb is no less diminishing than spawning by pure happenstance. You just prefer a different sort of futility.

Mr Carlin makes some pretty good points too.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: NthOther
"Why don't you stop praying and do something?"

Rabid Atheists the world over

Stopped reading there.

This is a rant.

I'll leave you with this, though:

Jesus discouraged public prayer.

No he didn't, He discouraged praying as the Pharisees did, not with a pure heart but just in order to look more spiritual than the commoners. Jesus was condemning the motive of the public prayers, not the location of them. (Corporate prayer/Intersession).

And what is the motive of going on Twitter and telling everyone that you're praying for something?

Is it genuine love and private referral with God? Or are you looking for followers...?

I would think it the latter far more often than not.

a reply to: DeadFoot

LOL!!!! Most the world hates Jesus and prayer, that's a horrible plan to go about seeking followers, you go on Twitter and let someone know you're praying for them is a sure-fire way to put yourself in the "freak" group.

Example, I post a Bible verse in Twitter and I'll help half a dozen likes and shares, but If I post something attacking Donald Trump I'll get a few hundred. Lol

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I was simply questioning to motive to do so.

I never said they were smart about it.

Why you would go about telling a bunch of people that you are praying for something is completely beyond me.