I will never grow a thicker skin, so just stop telling me to.

Hm yes, even on ATS certain members are extremely "mean" (for lack of a better word) and will assault and bully at a sign of weakness or insecurity.

For example when sharing some personal issue.

a reply to: whyamIhere

t's the Internet...I picture everyone I'm taking to as a 19 year old punk.
In his mom's basement stealing the neighbor's wifi.

Interesting. I fight like hell with myself to NOT approach people like that. I fail often
But why would you even come here in the first place if that is what you expect to find. Punks.
How can you ever have a civil dialogue with someone if that is how you go into each encounter?
I am at a loss.

This is what growing a thick skin is all about:

Khaggavisana Sutta


Renouncing violence
for all living beings,
harming not even a one,
you would not wish for offspring,
so how a companion?
Wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

For a sociable person
there are allurements;
on the heels of allurement, this pain.
Seeing allurement's drawback,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

One whose mind
is enmeshed in sympathy
for friends and companions,
neglects the true goal.
Seeing this danger in intimacy,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Like spreading bamboo,
entwined,
is concern for offspring and spouses.
Like a bamboo sprout,
unentangling,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

As a deer in the wilds,
unfettered,
goes for forage wherever it wants:
the wise person, valuing freedom,
wanders alone
like a rhinoceros.

In the midst of companions
-- when staying at home,
when going out wandering --
you are prey to requests.
Valuing freedom,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

There is sporting and love
in the midst of companions,
and abundant fondness for offspring.
Feeling disgust
at the prospect of parting
from those who would be dear,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

They are hard to please,
some of those gone forth,
as well as those living the household life.
Shedding concern
for these offspring of others,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Cutting off the householder's marks [hair and beard],
like a kovilara tree
that has shed its leaves,
the prudent one, cutting all household ties,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

If you gain a mature companion,
a fellow traveler, right-living and wise,
overcoming all dangers
go with him, gratified,
mindful.

If you don't gain a mature companion,
a fellow traveler, right-living and wise,
wander alone
like a king renouncing his kingdom,
like the elephant in the Matanga wilds,
his herd.

We praise companionship
-- yes!
Those on a par, or better,
should be chosen as friends.
If they are not to be found,
living faultlessly,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Seeing radiant bracelets of gold,
well-made by a smith,
clinking, clashing,
two on an arm,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros,

[thinking:]

"In the same way,
if I were to live with another,
there would be careless or abusive talk."
Seeing this future danger,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Because sensual pleasures,
elegant, honeyed, & charming,
bewitch the mind with their manifold forms --
seeing this drawback in sensual strands --
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

"Calamity, tumor, misfortune,
disease, an arrow, a danger for me."
Seeing this danger in sensual strands,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Cold and heat, hunger and thirst,
wind and sun, horseflies and snakes:
enduring all these, without exception,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

As a great white elephant,
with massive shoulders,
renouncing his herd,
lives in the wilds wherever he wants,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

"There's no way
that one delighting in company
can touch even momentary release."
Heeding the Solar Kinsman's words,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Transcending the contortion of views,
the sure way attained,
the path gained,

[realizing:]

"Unled by others,
I have knowledge arisen,"
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

With no greed, no deceit,
no thirst, no hypocrisy --
delusion and blemishes
blown away --
with no inclinations for all the world,
every world,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Avoid the evil companion
disregarding the goal,
intent on the out-of-tune way.
Don't take as a friend
someone heedless and hankering.
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Consort with one who is learned,
who maintains the Dhamma,
a great and quick-witted friend.
Knowing the meanings,
subdue your perplexity,
[then] wander alone
like a rhinoceros,

Free from longing, finding no pleasure
in the world's sport, love, or sensual bliss,
abstaining from adornment,
speaking the truth,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Abandoning offspring, spouse,
father, mother,
riches, grain, relatives,
and sensual pleasures
altogether,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

"This is a bondage, a baited hook.
There is little happiness here,
next to no satisfaction,
all the more suffering and pain."
Knowing this, circumspect,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Shattering fetters,
like a fish in the water tearing a net,
like a fire not coming back to what is burnt,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing -- not burning -- with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Taking off the householder's marks [lay clothing],
like a coral tree
that has shed its leaves,
going forth in the ochre robe,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Showing no greed for flavors, not careless,
going from house to house for alms,
with mind not enmeshed in this family or that,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Abandoning barriers to awareness,
expelling all defilements -- all --
non-dependent, cutting aversion,
allurement,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Turning your back on pleasure and pain,
as earlier with sorrow and joy,
attaining pure equanimity,
tranquility,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

With persistence aroused
for the highest goal's attainment,
with mind not smeared, not lazy in action,
firm in effort, with steadfastness and strength arisen,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption,
constantly living the Dhamma
in line with the Dhamma,
comprehending the danger
in states of becoming,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Intent on the ending of craving and heedful,
learned, mindful, not muddled,
certain -- having reckoned the Dhamma --
and striving,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Not startled, like a lion, at sounds.
Not snared, like the wind in a net.
Not smeared, like a lotus in water:
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Like a lion -- forceful, strong in fang,
living as a conqueror, the king of beasts --
resort to a solitary dwelling.
Wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

At the right time consorting
with the release through good will,
compassion,
appreciation,
equanimity,
unobstructed by all the world,
any world,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Having let go of passion,
aversion,
delusion;
having shattered the fetters;
undisturbed at the ending of life,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

People follow and associate
for a motive.
Friends without a motive these days
are rare.
They are shrewd for their own ends, and impure.
Wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I second redhorse's observation and I furthermore add: if you're born into a family, you're not allowed to complain about the state of your family? Because you're not "paying" for it? On the contrary I think we are all paying for our actions... it's cause and effect, and it's more important than money.

Also, I just wanted to point out the positive nature of a complaint- of reporting someone (for committing a crime, for instance)- and of confrontation. It can be healthy.

originally posted by: geezlouise
I second redhorse's observation and I furthermore add:

I already addressed his fallacy.

...if you're born into a family, you're not allowed to complain about the state of your family? Because you're not "paying" for it?

Why would you not be able to criticize legitimate familial issues?

" So how about, "go f-ck yourself," to everyone who's ever said... "grow a thicker skin," to anybody. "

How ironic.

To me, having a thick skin comes down to an absolute refusal to allow anyone - or anything - else to take control of my emotions or to direct my thought patterns.

I'm not particularly convinced that any of this is an either/or scenario.

Its entirely possible to have skin as thick as armor and be filled to the brim with compassion, empathy, kindness, and the ability to foster growth across the board. In some cases, it could even be a requirement to truly achieve the latter items in a lasting, meaningful capacity.

I may not quite understand though, the examples don't seem particularly relevant to the premise and there seem to be some contradictions.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: whyamIhere

t's the Internet...I picture everyone I'm taking to as a 19 year old punk.
In his mom's basement stealing the neighbor's wifi.

Interesting. I fight like hell with myself to NOT approach people like that. I fail often
But why would you even come here in the first place if that is what you expect to find. Punks.
How can you ever have a civil dialogue with someone if that is how you go into each encounter?
I am at a loss.

Easy...

This is the difference. When people are in the same room with me.

I speak to people with respect and expect the same courtesy in return.

When online you can't take anything personal.

a reply to: ksiezyc

When you share a personal issue and everyones panties get all in a bunch over it?

It's not your fault, trust me. Just remember that. They're all just crying because where they have learned to suffer in silence all of their lives? You have dared to do the unbelievable... which is not to suffer in silence anymore. It seems unfair to them that you should get to speak out so freely.

a reply to: geezlouise

Yes. A month or so ago I was suffering emotionally and I tried to vent and find comfort in a thread that is meant for friendship and what I sought(comfort and venting out the day), but I ended up attacked for it. Maybe I did mention it too much, but I didn't know where else to go since I had no one around at that time. No family and no close friends. All were more a drive away. I've seen your posts. Stay strong and if you ever need a shoulder to cry on or some sort of comfort I am here. I'm always delighted to help someone in need so just send a PM, but you seem strong despite saying you will never grow a thicker skin. Stay as you are. You're a beautiful soul.

Your example holds no weight. The growing thicker skin comment pertains to being able to handle criticism from others better. Without it, life will be suckier for you.

Especially with bosses, CO's, and the like. Is your thin skin worth your job?

When it comes to friends and family that is totally different. I agree with a couple of your points.

It is all about respect. If you give it, you should get it back in return from anyone. That much is true.

I agree though, one should always counter or fight back against a bully. Prison rules apply all over. Some people (often supervisors unfortunately) make themselves feel better by taking down others a peg. I should add attempting there. People can and will try but only you can allow yourself to be taken down a notch by insults and the like. Just dont allow it t9 affect you personally. That is where the line comes from IMO.
Each situation is different..

a reply to: geezlouise

Thats simply because youve taken no role in their conspiracy or lie they tell themselves...

a reply to: geezlouise

Young miss?

Don't ever let anyone on the internet dictate who you should be or who you are.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The irony? You called this person young and a miss... and then told this person exactly what to do issuing a command.

How can people not see such things they say as double talk?

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: DBCowboy

The irony? You called this person young and a miss... and then told this person exactly what to do issuing a command.

How can people not see such things they say as double talk?

Oh Christ.

Give it a rest, betty.

I'm old, misogynistic, and have experienced more than you could probably google in a lifetime.

Stop being an asshole.

I was trying to be nice.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: geezlouise
I second redhorse's observation and I furthermore add:

I already addressed his fallacy.

You did not address a fallacy. In fact, you did not even point out "a fallacy" let alone address one.

I believe the OP's point with the restaurant analogy was that if you don't say anything, then counter-productive, harmful or hurtful behavior does not change because people are often not even aware that there is an issue; a point which you are being obtuse about, almost certainly intentionally so. This actually illustrates a mechanism that people often use to justify their bad behavior and not change anything (even when the bad behavior is pointed out). Willful ignorance is the most difficult to change and more harmful than genuine ignorance. People get invested in "winning" instead of being decent human beings.

And I'm a her not a him (just to clarify).

originally posted by: redhorse
You did not address a fallacy. In fact, you did not even point out "a fallacy" let alone address one.

The fallacy is that in a transactionall exchange there is nothing to be told to have thin skin over. I purchase X with Y, you provide X or I withhold Y. Pretty straight forward. If you do not provide X and I point this out what is demonstrating thin skin?

I believe the OP's point with the restaurant analogy was that if you don't say anything, then counter-productive, harmful or hurtful behavior does not change because people are often not even aware that there is an issue...

See above, saying something in that situation has nothing to do with having thin skin or not, it has more to do with being non-confrontational.

...a point which you are being obtuse about, almost certainly intentionally so.

The obtuseness is not seeing the difference between a transactional exchange and an emotional one.

a reply to: geezlouise

Just keep plugging along.

I think I understand what you are trying to convey. It is easy for some IMO to say whatever the hell they feel and you don't feel socially permitted to also feel hurt by it. It is a part of the cycle of abuse that you (perhaps) have endured in your lifetime and you IMO have every right to stand up against it and speak out. I'm not saying that I feel internet banter or rudeness is abuse but I am saying that you have every right to feel the way you do.

I think that you have been through quite a bit in your young life and it is refreshing to see you finding your voice and being able to stand up tall in your convictions and express them at least as much as you are able to on this forum.

Good for you Lou!

With that said, it is important to shield yourself from taking too much to heart things that anonymous folks say to you on the internet, my post included.

a reply to: geezlouise

There is a difference between constructive criticism/debate and abuse. Growing a thicker skin is not bad advice when dealing with constructive criticism/debate.

I remember being told to have a thicker skin during my first art critique in college. It was some of the best advice I ever got.

So, no...I don't think a 'f* you' should be given to everyone who ever said "Grow a thicker skin."

I'm not always right and I generally welcome constructive thoughts....even when they hurt or humble me.