Media in full spin mode: "British regret voting BREXIT".

a reply to: 0bserver1

Yeah, well that's what happens when those who make the laws aren't directly elected.
They are too slow to act on things or don't act at all and eventually it all boils over.
Nexit, Swexit, Frexit even a Belxit vote may be coming. Not to mention that with each one, Germany will become more and more unsettled until there is the inevitable Gerxit.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Weird how things spread like a virus, How easy are we being manipulated or awakened ?

a reply to: SprocketUK

There will be no other exit than brexit, that is a certainty

Im still worried about the lack off progress and the huge media bias towards the remain camp.

Loads of talking heads are saying article 50 will never be triggered , and other funny business to ignore the vote.

This will lead to civil war in Britain..

a reply to: 0bserver1

I think it's more a case of awakening.
Information is the key, you aren't stuck with just the tv and print media anymore.
You can read blogs, tweets, sites like this and listen to podcasts.
People formerly maginalised now have the means to get their message out far and wide.





Earthling why are you so sure there won't be any more? Dissatisfaction is rife across the continent and seeing us go can only embolden others, surely?

originally posted by: rigel4
Im still worried about the lack off progress and the huge media bias towards the remain camp.

Loads of talking heads are saying article 50 will never be triggered , and other funny business to ignore the vote.

This will lead to civil war in Britain..

It will not lead to a civil war, What will the fight be with pots and pans?. What you have is typical liberal approach of not getting what you want then shout as loud as you can.

The bank of england has stated they have enough funds to cover this situation and one far worse.

Boris will be PM soon and he does have pulling power from both sides.

You will here a lot of shouting from the media as they are of course biased, The UK also has such a large number of migrants that will be having a say that i do not think this situation will go away anytime soon.

If article 50 is not set in motion we may as well be in North Korea. It would also be suicide to not honour the vote as it would mean a patition in theory could be used in the future against any other vote and the people at the top will not want that.

It also shows that the younger generation have lost all their identity with people stating they are not British but European which is very sad.

Other EU countries WILL now look to leave as immigration is the main problem and with a key taker of migrants now voting out it goes without saying that no other nation wants to head the same way the UK did.



RA

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: AMPTAH

You keep mentioning democracy but seem intent on ignoring democratic process.

But, you keep implicating that the democratic process has a termination date.

After that, democracy is over, and whatever decisions were made before the due date, are now fixed in stone.

That only works for electing the PM, and even so, every 5 years or so you get to re-vote.

Democracy is a "fluid" process. It facilitates change. There's no end point.

More of the dust might be beginning to settle on the machinations behind the Brexit. In his World Crisis Radio program,Webster Tarpley suggested that this event, despite appearances to the contrary, is a phenomenon driven from the top down and represents an effort by Britain's financial and banking oligarchs to escape EU oversight of their business.

According to Le Monde, Emmanuel Macron, France's Minister for the Economy, Industry and Digital Affairs, on a visit to London back in April, weeks before the Brexit vote, speaking only half seriously, asked if London's financial elite were really attempting to turn London into a huge "tax haven".

www.lemonde.fr...

Il ne croyait pas si bien dire, Emmanuel Macron. Mais comme il a fait preuve de clairvoyance, ce 14 avril, en voyage à Londres, deux mois donc avant le « Brexit », en provoquant les Britanniques d’un : « Vous ne voulez quand même pas devenir le “Jersey” ou le “Hongkong” de l’Europe ? »

Car derrière le risque de marginalisation de la puissante City de Londres, qu’entendait dénoncer le ministre français de l’économie, en cas de divorce d’avec l’Union européenne (UE) – une marginalisation coûteuse en emplois et en points de croissance économique – se cache, en réalité, un autre risque. Celui-là est pernicieux, et surtout, lourd de conséquences pour l’ensemble de la communauté internationale, notamment européenne.

Poreux et complaisant

Le risque est de voir le Royaume-Uni et son centre financier se lancer dans un dumping fiscal et réglementaire particulièrement agressif, pour s’imposer comme « le » paradis fiscal de l’Europe, plus poreux et complaisant encore qu’il ne l’est aujourd’hui envers l’argent sale, gris ou noir, issu de la fraude fiscale, des trafics ou de la corruption.

Translation:

Emmanuel Macron didn't think he was speaking this accurately, but he has proven clairvoyant, April 14, on a trip to London, two months before the "Brexit" when provoking the British by asking, "You don't want, all the same, to become the "Jersey" or "Hong Kong" of Europe?"

Because, behind the risk of marginalization of the City of London, that the French Minister of the Economy intended to warn against, in the case of a divorce from the EU, a marginalization costly in jobs and percentage points of economic growth, hides, in reality another risk. This hidden risk is pernicious and heavy with consequences for the whole international community, particularly the European community.

The risk is to see the United Kingdom and its financial center launch into tax dumping and aggressive relaxation of regulations to impose itself as the fiscal paradise of Europe, even more porous and complaisant than it is today with respect to dirty money, gray or black, resulting from tax evasion, trafficking and corruption. (End of translation.)

The Cayman Islands tax haven enterprise was a creation of the British Parliament and according to the NGO, Transparency International, as reported by Le Monde, over 40,000 luxury dwellings in London are owned by front companies based in tax havens.

It is interesting speculation.

a reply to: gladtobehereThey will ultimately ignore the will of the people...Their leader says he won't leave til October...Lots of things are going to happen by October...

a reply to: SprocketUK

There is indeed dissatisfaction across the EU members, but to throw away what we have currently? no that won't happen.
There is nothing to gain from it, moreover as a country one is a lot weaker in negotiations than a trade block like EU.
That is why we all joined forces in the first place and have an internal market.
Of course there will always be different views and different interests between member states, but the benefits of the EU and the internal market puts more weight in the scale than different views and interests.
It is give and take.

It also is quite natural that the EU is an overarching coordinating body, after all, it has to speak with one voice and negotiate with other large economies.
Last but certainly not the least, the EU council consists of our leaders, the EC consists euro commissioners from all 28 member states, and the European Parliament consists of chosen politicians from all member states.
We all are part of the EU, our leaders and politicians are the ones who set the policies but also vote on them.

To leave the EU is simply economic suicide.
If we did, we would have to negotiate a deal with the EU in order to not lose our trading partners, so what does really change?
We would have lost influence and are burdened with trade barriers but also less powerfull when it comes to negotiations with other large economies.
Norway in exchange for access to the internal market has adopted Schengen, so in the end nothing has really changed for the better but businesses will move to a member state in order to avoid trade barriers.

originally posted by: earthling42It also is quite natural that the EU is an overarching coordinating body...

For you, maybe. We don't have a history of handing the keys of the kingdom over to every passing army.

a reply to: earthling42


See, I read that and it sounded like the remain argument. i.e. "We know best".

That just isn't washing with the people at the sharp end. The EU's biggest failing is being too slow to respond to the issues of the people and the reason it's too slow is that those who make the laws aren't directly elected by the people they seek to rule.

Until that is changed then I think dissatisfaction will only grow.

If you want a concrete example, try this.

The EU has a law written into treaty that member states may not reduce or abolish VAT (sales tax), only increase it, this means that, despite popular demand in the UK for the tax on female sanitary products to be removed, our elected government just isn't allowed to. They can't remove VAT from household fuel either and we have old people who are unable to afford to heat their homes in winter and subsequently die from the cold.

Would you ever vote for a political party that promised to only ever increase a tax, never to reduce or remove it? Would any sane person?

That's just one example, there are many more regarding nationalisation of businesses etc.

a reply to: ipsedixit

OMG! Of course it's a possibility.
Thanks for sharing!

The EU would have to nationalise their banks, to keep any social programmes alive. Whatever the media says, the big question in this "divorce" will be who gets the banks. And I would bet UK has the better cards.
So some drastic measures will have to happen, on both sides. And paying for this scheme will the ordinary people, as always.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Sublimecraft

I am friends with someone who is a member of a political party and he shook his head when I told him the news. The pound drops to it's lowest value in 31 years in a matter of hours-that is no coincidence.

The rest of the world warned of the economical and financial ramifications but the voters didn't listen and now others will have to suffer.

'Economic', 'financial ramifications', 'pound drops', and other terminologies that refer to bank accounts and all things money, is where the IN-camp went wrong with us 'leavers'.

For many of us, especially myself, it was never about material gains/losses and economics etc, nor was it about immigration, and those politicians and experts that were banging on about such things were all talking Martian as far as we were concerned. Their words went right over our heads, and ours over theirs. They don't get us, not in the slightest.

We voted for the things important to us that were never really talked about in the run up to the referendum, things that cannot be bought nor imported from the EU nor anywhere else, and are priceless: Independence and freedom.

Economics and finances and money and property can never be more valuable than independence and freedom.

a reply to: gladtobehere

Part of Europe or not its still the same banking cartels that really run the dog and pony show we suffer and call existence, same crap, smaller playground really.

originally posted by: doobydoll

For many of us, especially myself, it was never about material gains/losses and economics etc, nor was it about immigration, and those politicians and experts that were banging on about such things were all talking Martian as far as we were concerned. Their words went right over our heads, and ours over theirs. They don't get us, not in the slightest.

We voted for the things important to us that were never really talked about in the run up to the referendum, things that cannot be bought nor imported from the EU nor anywhere else, and are priceless: Independence and freedom.

Economics and finances and money and property can never be more valuable than independence and freedom.

This kind of thinking is very unrealistic, very idealistic. The vote was and is about all of those things that you say are unimportant to you. I think if the referendum were couched in the terms that you mention, without reference to the things you consider unimportant, and only mentioning independence and freedom, a very small number of people would have voted for the Brexit.

That is a problem with this kind of vote. People like you voted for something that wasn't on the ballot. Brexit is not going to give you freedom and independence. It is going to give the UK difficult challenges and obligations. If you wanted freedom and independence all you had to do is become a hobo or a recluse living off the grid and off the land, but I don't think freedom and independence is really what you want. I think you and a lot of other people wanted a rollback to the way things used to be when the UK was an exploiter of colonial possessions.

If Webster Tarpley and Emmanuel Macron are right, what you are going to get is an oligarchy that has decided to become a different sort of exploiter, a criminal enabler in the financial world and who are going to give even less of a flying fadoo about ordinary Brits.

If you are sincere about wanting freedom and independence you won't mind the reduction in standard of living that comes with it, or the loss of Scotland and Northern Ireland, but you will be in a tiny minority of people who feel that way.

Whatever actually happens, it certainly is going to be interesting to watch it play out.

a reply to: gladtobehere

i doubt many regret it, only because of the markets were a little shaken but its not that dramatic at all.
i feel this is all gearing towards ad secound referendum- especially whats happenign with scotland.

i wish they would just accept the votes.

originally posted by: ipsedixit

originally posted by: doobydoll

For many of us, especially myself, it was never about material gains/losses and economics etc, nor was it about immigration, and those politicians and experts that were banging on about such things were all talking Martian as far as we were concerned. Their words went right over our heads, and ours over theirs. They don't get us, not in the slightest.

We voted for the things important to us that were never really talked about in the run up to the referendum, things that cannot be bought nor imported from the EU nor anywhere else, and are priceless: Independence and freedom.

Economics and finances and money and property can never be more valuable than independence and freedom.

This kind of thinking is very unrealistic, very idealistic. The vote was and is about all of those things that you say are unimportant to you. I think if the referendum were couched in the terms that you mention, without reference to the things you consider unimportant, and only mentioning independence and freedom, a very small number of people would have voted for the Brexit.

Why would you say I would want the referendum campaign to 'only mention independence and freedom'? My point is that these things matter to the majority of us, more so than money and finances, but were hardly brought up. And the odd occasion it was mentioned it got trampled underfoot in a stampede of insults like 'stupid' and 'uneducated' etc. Which proves that politicians and campaigners are so completely out of touch with real people. They only understand money language.

That is a problem with this kind of vote. People like you voted for something that wasn't on the ballot. Brexit is not going to give you freedom and independence. It is going to give the UK difficult challenges and obligations. If you wanted freedom and independence all you had to do is become a hobo or a recluse living off the grid and off the land, but I don't think freedom and independence is really what you want. I think you and a lot of other people wanted a rollback to the way things used to be when the UK was an exploiter of colonial possessions.

Another one that just doesn't get it. Freedom and independence isn't about becoming a hobo. SMH.

I don't have the time to sit and explain to you, I can tell you'll still never get it.

If Webster Tarpley and Emmanuel Macron are right, what you are going to get is an oligarchy that has decided to become a different sort of exploiter, a criminal enabler in the financial world and who are going to give even less of a flying fadoo about ordinary Brits.

If you are sincere about wanting freedom and independence you won't mind the reduction in standard of living that comes with it, or the loss of Scotland and Northern Ireland, but you will be in a tiny minority of people who feel that way.

There are and have been peoples throughout history who have laid down their lives for freedom and independence. The ultimate price. And if they were here now would do it all over again in a New York minute.

A lower standard of living is cheap at the price. A bargain.

Whatever actually happens, it certainly is going to be interesting to watch it play out.

Agreed.

We don't know what's going to happen. Our MP's have strangely gone quiet and are hiding and resigning in every direction lol.

I have a feeling that our government will drag its heels before it will invoke Article 50, probably stalling for enough time to come up with a plan to double-cross and not honour the majority 'OUT' vote.

When they go quiet they're up to summat. I don't trust the crooked dodgy getts.

well looks like a second scots referendum will occur now , and thanks England for showing us the way out the EU , now Scotland will be free from the # show that is the United kingdom
and we can # Westminister and all those un-elected lords into the sea!

We will have our own democracy and our own constitution and we can tell the EU to # off as well.

Nice how things work out

originally posted by: sapien82
well looks like a second scots referendum will occur now , and thanks England for showing us the way out the EU , now Scotland will be free from the # show that is the United kingdom
and we can # Westminister and all those un-elected lords into the sea!

We will have our own democracy and our own constitution and we can tell the EU to # off as well.

Nice how things work out

Good luck, I'd hate to see you get independence from us then give it all away to the EU.