‘Basic income’ poll: 64% of Europeans would vote in favor!

Some news i came across that i have first heard of, and find puzzling, basically the survey was about a proposal offering everyone whether they worked or
not a basic living wage. This sounds to me to good to be true. only 4% said they would stop working. I feel that number would be much higher though.
Does anyone else think this is to good to be true?
With the Brexit vote coming up, Im now wandering if we would be better in the EU, with this sort of talk!

from the article....
"The poll, conducted by German company Dalia Research in April, was the first EU-wide survey to address the proposal of a basic income, defined in the poll as “an income unconditionally paid by the government to every individual regardless of whether they work and irrespective of any other sources of income.”

Regards.

www.rt.com...

a reply to: Davg80

I cannot have an opinion about Germans, as I am not as intimately aware of their culture,
but for the french, the results of that survey would not surprise me.

The values are different here, and although they do not have our protestant values upon our career success as a gauge of our self worth, they do feel very close to their sense of inter-dependence, and what we would mostly call the "herd mentality".

They don't feel as comfortable with independence- in general, they are very social, and want to be surrounded by others, active with others. Work is seen as being socially active. There is a lot of concern for people who are unemployed, not because they risk being homeless and starving (that isn't really a risk) but it is considered being a social outcast- losing touch with other people, being alone too much.

I have had many people say to me, concerning my situation when I was in a conflict with my employer, that "everyone has the right to work". This was always said when I stated that I didn't really feel like fighting too hard for a job that others might need, when I do not need it ( financially).

The "right" to work just sounded weird to me. I guess I would consider it a "duty" or a "necessity", but not a sort of benefit one has the "right" to. Unless maybe we're talking very fun creative careers (which I was not talking of)

But yeah- for them it is a good thing they want the right to do.

Wow. The level of government dependence in Europe is astonishing.

originally posted by: Davg80
Some news i came across that i have first heard of, and find puzzling, basically the survey was about a proposal offering everyone whether they worked or
not a basic living wage. This sounds to me to good to be true. only 4% said they would stop working. I feel that number would be much higher though.
Does anyone else think this is to good to be true?
With the Brexit vote coming up, Im now wandering if we would be better in the EU, with this sort of talk!

from the article....
"The poll, conducted by German company Dalia Research in April, was the first EU-wide survey to address the proposal of a basic income, defined in the poll as “an income unconditionally paid by the government to every individual regardless of whether they work and irrespective of any other sources of income.”

Regards.

www.rt.com...

I don't have an issue with this even as a libertarian. It's better than wellfare as most people will get it including those working. It makes people personally responsible like hey Jimmy I know you have money all you have to do is get a part time job or roommates.. If you can't do that something else is wrong.

Of course all the other programs would have to go bye bye even ssi type programs.

A few countries have expiremented with it.

a reply to: Davg80

It's related to a conversation that the entire West needs to have. The industrial age is over in the West, it's not coming back. We need something to replace it ...but what and what do we do in the mean time?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Davg80

It's related to a conversation that the entire West needs to have. The industrial age is over in the West, it's not coming back we need something to replace it but what and what do we do in the mean time?

So true. We will probably ride the train off the cliff though. Talking about how bad socialism is. (I think it is because of the corruption of Central gov but I am not so crazy I don't see the end of the current model of capitalism )

If we are lucky we will expand to space and have actual things to make that arent for the wastebasket in three months.

Prob be a good idea to learn how to grow food and fix things yourself because there is no sign from any government this topic of automation and lack of industry is going to be addressed properly.

a reply to: luthier

This could be a great time for innovation. The Western populace has floated their governments and corporations for decades now, let them foot the bill while we figure out what's next. That's very simplified but I'm sure you get the drift.

I dunno. With robots and AI's taking over a huge chunk of busy work -- perhaps the French and their attitudes to working less, and enjoying life more is a forward-looking attitude?

Everyone's dependent on someone. Unless you live live a primitive caveman in the jungles of Borneo. That level of dependence, however, is something we're going to always struggle with.

I say let all the "rugged individualists" go out and colonize asteroids, the Moon and Mars. Let them go and be miserable, and prepare the way for the rest of us to come and move in to established colonies.

I remember having a conversation about this with my mom when she saw in the paper that Switzerland was proposing something of this nature.

It would be great for those like me who lack the social skills necessary to hold a job, but there are many more who would rather I don't have access to any capital whatsoever despite severe mental illness.

a reply to: Davg80

This would be frigging awesome, so many opportunities for working here and there.. i vote yes please.

a reply to: Kali74

So how does paying people for nothing solve that? And doesn't that put a higher tax burden on the few with jobs? I seriously don't get it.

Why wouldn't you consider not working if you were going to get a paycheck no matter what? I've got two little kids at home who I'd much rather be spending time with than putting 40 hours in for the man.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Kali74

So how does paying people for nothing solve that? And doesn't that put a higher tax burden on the few with jobs? I seriously don't get it.

Because your converting all the programs and their beauracracies to one tax return that everyone gets the same (accept the very rich).

People continue consuming etc. No complicate gov beauracracies telling you what you qualify for.

Lots of different models but I semi support the most basic model. Just a tax return you get monthly.

Don't forget spending is also what keeps the market going. If there aren't consumers you cn kiss that 401k goodbye.

a reply to: avgguy

I don't get it either. When more people are in the cart than pulling it, something will break. That something is the cart pullers.

Money for nothing and chicks for free sounds good, but it's just a song, not reality.

It all sounds good until you try to sell the fact that taxes will have to be increased to pay for it!

In my view, it would reinforce and further entrench that section of society that never bothers to contribute by working. Combining a basic income with compulsory voluntary community work may be a solution, but then that's "work" isn't it? Some people are just natural parasites on society.

If people want to live as hamsters treat them as hamsters. Tie in healthcare with the basic income and require individulas to work out for their money benefits. In other words, a regular fitness test would determine how much money you were entitled to based on performance. If you spent your money smoking and drinking all day, don't expect to do too well on the fitness test and therefore your basic earnings would take a hit. Its a simple something for something exchange. Government pays you to stay healthy and fit, which benefits both of you in the long term. You get sloppy and lazy and they're not obligated to pay you well for your unhealthy lifestyle, just enough to get by.

I think a basic income would be ruinous, but perhaps a few societies would be willing to run that experiment. If the only condition for such a pay check is to simply exist, I'm fairly certain the downfall of the society that provides for that pay check would be inevitable.

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: avgguy

I don't get it either. When more people are in the cart than pulling it, something will break. That something is the cart pullers.

Money for nothing and chicks for free sounds good, but it's just a song, not reality.

There has been some creative speculation into different models of society we could consider with the problem of lack of work because of automation and computers. When you don't have to pay employees, because you have machine and computers doing the work, we've got a serious problem with the old model.

This is just one idea that has been hypothesized by a few, in many different forms.
We certainly cannot keep things as they are, because it doesn't work if nobody has jobs, and nobody has money to spend.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Why wouldn't you consider not working if you were going to get a paycheck no matter what? I've got two little kids at home who I'd much rather be spending time with than putting 40 hours in for the man.

And there'll be other people won't want to be home, for whatever reasons. I doubt the paycheques would allow for luxuries, they'll likely be minimal money. Just a basic barely living type of wage.

a reply to: avgguy

I don't know that it's the solution but we have to start talking about what we're going to do when hundreds of millions of people can't find a job because there literally aren't any or not enough that actually afford a decent living.