I am starting to believe in God

a reply to: clevargenuis

Word is Anton Laveys last words were something like"What have I done."

The funny thing is, until coming in contact with Zoroastrianism the Jews had no concept of a devil and Satan was nothing like the New Testament Satan. Belial seems to be the preferred term for the lawless one or Baalzebul. Ahriman is the Zoroastrian devil. All the angelology and demonology, cataclysmic battle between good and evil and the messianic prophecies are inspired by Zoroastrianism too.

But the Parsi people who are the descendants of ancient Zoroastrianism have decided that Ahriman is just a principle now and put the blame for evil were it belongs. With humans.

Kind of ironic that the inspiration for Satan is no lingered believed to be real but allegorical for human desire to do evil.

Christianity made Satan fill the role of devil

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Heh.

a reply to: CapstonePendulum

Shaitan is not eternal as God is. God isn't "created" nor can be destroyed. Therefore, Shaitan exists in all dimension except "his." The devil will kill his servants with great pain and then the servants will know what true hate means....

a reply to: CapstonePendulum

Shaitan is not eternal as God is. God isn't "created" nor can be destroyed. Therefore, Shaitan exists in all dimension except "his." The devil will kill his servants with great pain and then the servants will know what true hate means....

In other words: Shaitan will make a path for you that is full of ecstasy but at the end of the path is a cliff. Guess who warned you of this?

originally posted by: clevargenuis
uh huh. To say life exists out there without having seen it = huge claim with no evidence.

At no point did I say that. I said it's logical to postulate that life exists outside of earth due to our knowledge of what life is on our planet and the abundance of the basic elements required for life on THIS planet. That's all. I never said it definitely exists.

Explanations as to why alien life could exist is not the same as concrete evidence. To say "aliens" exist but not God is special pleading.

How so? I have mentioned already what it takes to constitute organic life of this planet -- some very basic and hugely abundant elements. Based on that reasoning, it ISN'T far fetched to think life is possible elsewhere.

Its as bad as X group claiming "our deity exists but not yours"....or "green aliens exist but not gray ones".

Not even remotely close. A group claiming their God exists is based on what? Nothing observable. Only faith. My assumption of life in the universe is based on the existence of life on this planet and the common denominating factors which make it prevalent here.

I have not seen a single piece of evidence to the existence of God, hence why I do not believe in it.

lmao nobody really knows whats out there.

Very true, neither scientists nor religious people.

a reply to: clevargenuis

Ok. So if these magical realities you claim exist and heaven and hell, where you are forever praising God in one, and forever punished in the other -- what happens to people who were never inducted into Christianity, or Islam or ANY religion at all?

What about people living 8000 years ago? Are they in hell for not accepting God's word? Or Allah's? What about the Egyptians? The Romans? The Greeks? The Vikings? The multiple religions in Asia before 0 BC ?

What about a group of people who live on an island and have never had religion poison them?

Do all these people go to hell? Or do they get a free pass into heaven? IN either case how is that fair? How is it if you repent in one religion ALL your sins are forgiven ? If you say it's down to what you believe then whats the point of religion if it isn't to keep people on the straight and narrow for FEAR of what may happen when they die?

My rambling point is, there is NO logical reason for heaven and hell apart from control. That's it.

originally posted by: CapstonePendulum
a reply to: clevargenuis

Word is Anton Laveys last words were something like"What have I done."

The funny thing is, until coming in contact with Zoroastrianism the Jews had no concept of a devil and Satan was nothing like the New Testament Satan. Belial seems to be the preferred term for the lawless one or Baalzebul. Ahriman is the Zoroastrian devil. All the angelology and demonology, cataclysmic battle between good and evil and the messianic prophecies are inspired by Zoroastrianism too.

But the Parsi people who are the descendants of ancient Zoroastrianism have decided that Ahriman is just a principle now and put the blame for evil were it belongs. With humans.

Kind of ironic that the inspiration for Satan is no lingered believed to be real but allegorical for human desire to do evil.

Christianity made Satan fill the role of devil

I disagree with you sir, there are several references to the entity commonly known as Satan in the old testament. Also, by the time of the new testament, not even the jews themselves knew their own God very well, how would they have been able grasp a truthful view of the devil?

I do agree that people have desires to do evil, but they also have desires to do good, but neither way are we perfect.

I mean no dissrespect, and im not saying you are wrong in your thinking. It would make sense if it could be explained as simple as that, but there are too many unknown factors to come to the absolute conclusion that the jews had no concept of the devil.

a reply to: noonebutme

That is because your thinking of a "god" in the sky. God is all around you even to the Earth's core.

Satan greatest lie was not convincing you he himself does not exist, rather he convince you God does not exist. Two birds with one stone....

originally posted by: clevargenuis
I also notice a lot of atheists drop the word "science" as a mantra in discussions like as if that magically wins an argument for them.

Hypothetical situation.

You, clevargenuis, are accused of murder in the 1st degree. And Person X claims you did it as they believe you did it. They didnt SEE you do it, they just believe it.

You, obviously denying it, claim that's not true. But how can you when Person X's FAITH that you did it is argument enough as evidence. And as their faith cannot be tested or challenged, it's up to you to prove your innocence, not for them to prove your guilt.

So - are you happy to use that process to determine your freedom? Or would you prefer EVIDENCE and scientific investigation to a) allow the accusation in the first place and b) for them to prove your guilt rather than you prove your innocence?

I'm keen to know what you think.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: clevargenuis

Ok. So if these magical realities you claim exist and heaven and hell, where you are forever praising God in one, and forever punished in the other -- what happens to people who were never inducted into Christianity, or Islam or ANY religion at all?

What about people living 8000 years ago? Are they in hell for not accepting God's word? Or Allah's? What about the Egyptians? The Romans? The Greeks? The Vikings? The multiple religions in Asia before 0 BC ?

What about a group of people who live on an island and have never had religion poison them?

Do all these people go to hell? Or do they get a free pass into heaven? IN either case how is that fair? How is it if you repent in one religion ALL your sins are forgiven ? If you say it's down to what you believe then whats the point of religion if it isn't to keep people on the straight and narrow for FEAR of what may happen when they die?

My rambling point is, there is NO logical reason for heaven and hell apart from control. That's it.

There are answers to that question actually in the new testament. Peter teaches about how even the dead shall recieve the gospel in the spirit realm.

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 peter 4:6

a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew

It's clear you were never an atheist with a comment like that.

Reading the OP I figured they never were an Atheist, they just wanted a sensational thread intro.
Yawn.

a reply to: HAZE3

Yeh right. That's a complete blanket statement and completely insensitive to the religious beliefs of the millions who lived before the book was written.

And essentially if people, living by completely different standards and tolerances (lol) than what the Bible mandates, they are...what? Cast into hell? How is that fair? How is that logical?

"You will be punished for something we havent told you is wrong or a crime."

And religion is constantly changing what is/is not a sin - how is anyone meant to live up to that? They cant. And that's why religion is man-made rubbish to control the masses.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew

It's clear you were never an atheist with a comment like that.

Reading the OP I figured they never were an Atheist, they just wanted a sensational thread intro.
Yawn.

A:"All Scots wear kilts"
B:"I'm a Scot and I wear pants"
A:"Your not a true Scot"
B:"lol"

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: clevargenuis
I .

Hypothetical situation.

You, clevargenuis, are accused of murder in the 1st degree. And Person X claims you did it as they believe you did it. They didnt SEE you do it, they just believe it.

You, obviously denying it, claim that's not true. But how can you when Person X's FAITH that you did it is argument enough as evidence. And as their faith cannot be tested or challenged, it's up to you to prove your innocence, not for them to prove your guilt.

So - are you happy to use that process to determine your freedom? Or would you prefer EVIDENCE and scientific investigation to a) allow the accusation in the first place and b) for them to prove your guilt rather than you prove your innocence?

I'm keen to know what you think.

the person accusing me of the crime better have the EVIDENCE his claim requires.

And his Faith better save him from Bubba lmao

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: HAZE3

Yeh right. That's a complete blanket statement and completely insensitive to the religious beliefs of the millions who lived before the book was written.

And essentially if people, living by completely different standards and tolerances (lol) than what the Bible mandates, they are...what? Cast into hell? How is that fair? How is that logical?

"You will be punished for something we havent told you is wrong or a crime."

And religion is constantly changing what is/is not a sin - how is anyone meant to live up to that? They cant. And that's why religion is man-made rubbish to control the masses.

Hey man, you are the one asking questions, not me. You will only know it as a blanket statement because you automatically accept thats all there is to it, but there is more

And religion is not rubbish, no matter the faith or belief.

The only insensitivity I see is coming from you

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: clevargenuis

What about people living 8000 years ago? Are they in hell for not accepting God's word? Or Allah's? What about the Egyptians? The Romans? The Greeks? The Vikings? The multiple religions in Asia before 0 BC ?

dunno.

I never said we need to convert to a religion.

heres a concept: believe in God or Higher power without converting to a religion.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: HAZE3

Yeh right. That's a complete blanket statement and completely insensitive to the religious beliefs of the millions who lived before the book was written.

And essentially if people, living by completely different standards and tolerances (lol) than what the Bible mandates, they are...what? Cast into hell? How is that fair? How is that logical?

"You will be punished for something we havent told you is wrong or a crime."

And religion is constantly changing what is/is not a sin - how is anyone meant to live up to that? They cant. And that's why religion is man-made rubbish to control the 3[/post]
Dang, I didn't know there was a census back then. Thanks!

edit on 2/5/2016 by Gyo01 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: clevargenuis

Hell is an idea. It means an evil will be forgotten and never EVER remembered.

a reply to: Gyo01

There will not even be ashes....

a reply to: Gyo01

Every ash will be burned to oblivion.