Delegate system gives Trump a 22 percent bonus, despite complaint

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: UKTruth

Maybe.

It's a lot more complex than it appears on the surface.

The US has never been a direct democracy, we've always been a representative republic. The two major parties pretty much mirror that philosophy.

There's method to that madness. We don't have a national Primary Day. Each state does that separately, under different rules by party, and staggered dates. Some people in the early primaries have their candidate drop out. Are they disenfranchised because they can't re-vote for someone still in the race? You can't vote first and second choice.

We're still the United STATES, as much as some would like to blur those lines between states even further and make us all one big giant Country ruled entirely by Washington DC. I'm dead set against anything that erodes the rights of the states any further.

Colorado does their thing, New York does theirs, etc. The process rolls on, and a winner comes out the other end. Maybe it'll be a contested convention and if neither Cruz or Trump get the GOP nomination, I'm fine with that.

And if Hillary gets indicted (I can dream, right?) and the Dems come out of their convention with someone other than Bernie, I'm ok with that too.

We have no idea what the GOP race would look like now if it would've been Trump, Cruz, and Kasich as the only three from the beginning.

I'm encouraged that 'outsiders' are doing as well as they are. Things are so screwed up, it's going to take a lot longer than an election cycle to fix them, even though as Americans we're typically too impatient for microwave popcorn.

The best news IMO is that the parties see the handwriting on the wall. They'll either change, or rapidly become an afterthought. My fondest hope is that some new blood will be encouraged and injected into the process and maybe in a few years, we can see a marked improvement.

Can't disagree with that.

I think a third party with strength would be a very positive development for America..

As John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution

a reply to: UKTruth

I think knowing something is wrong and doing nothing about it is very much a sign weakness, cowardice actually. Ignorance is at least a defence.

Which is exactly what Trump is doing. If he knew the system was corrupt, why did he do nothing about it and why was he ignorant of the party process that allowed himself to be steamrolled?

You call him a great man, but by your own definition is an ignorant coward.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

I think knowing something is wrong and doing nothing about it is very much a sign weakness, cowardice actually. Ignorance is at least a defence.

Which is exactly what Trump is doing. If he knew the system was corrupt, why did he do nothing about it and why was he ignorant of the party process that allowed himself to be steamrolled?

You call him a great man, but by your own definition is an ignorant coward.

It's pretty clear he is learning as he goes - he is only just realising the depth of the problem and is speaking out to millions.
We have to congratulate him for turning his ignorance into knowledge too and now doing something about it. Cowards don't do that, they just accept the rule book and go home.

He could easily go back to his mansion and live it up. The fact he is even running in the face of death threats and hate is testament to his courage.

a reply to: introvert

What the hell does that have to do with the topic?

It has to do with people thinking that there is no corruption and maybe they see how corrupt the Democrats are and then think the Republicans aren't as bad by comparison. Just because they are less bad doesn't make them not corrupt.

I think it is important to point out all corruption...even when we might be the beneficiary of such corruption. Just because it doesn't affect us personally right now doesn't mean we should be cool with what is going on.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

I think knowing something is wrong and doing nothing about it is very much a sign weakness, cowardice actually. Ignorance is at least a defence.

Which is exactly what Trump is doing. If he knew the system was corrupt, why did he do nothing about it and why was he ignorant of the party process that allowed himself to be steamrolled?

You call him a great man, but by your own definition is an ignorant coward.

It's pretty clear he is learning as he goes - he is only just realising the depth of the problem and is speaking out to millions.
We have to congratulate him for turning his ignorance into knowledge too and now doing something about it.

He could easily go back to his mansion and live it up. The fact he is even running in the face of death threats and hate is testament to his courage.

Oh, so he didn't know the system was corrupt, even though he admits that he has been part of that very system? Remember, he admits to contributing to politicians because he "knew how the game was played".

And how can you say that he is doing something about it? His ignorance just caused him to become a victim of it. Do you really believe that just because he tries to place the blame on someone else and has his supporters crying up a storm means he is "doing something about it"?

Are we still in kindergarten?

a reply to: introvert

To show that he is not corrupt. Does no one see that? Trump could buy every delegate there is 10x over. He could buy this election if he wanted to. If he did people would cry.

This shows that he is honest. Not dumb, honest.

This contest is not over. He restructured his campaign. Hired new people. The MSM tried to make this a sinking ship moment and it is not. He is actually realizing how dirty politics is. That people will stop and nothing to stop him.

Trump is far from ignorant. He is simply honest. If you were in the same room with him I think you would pee a little from fear....

He does not need this. He has a company that is rock solid, a beautiful wife and family and no worries. He is simply another Rand Paul trying to show the corruption.

originally posted by: UKTruth
As John Adams said:

I have this mental image of all of our Founding Fathers spinning in their graves like lathes. They rebelled against a 'tyranny' that was a freaking utopia compared to what the average American has to tolerate today.

As Ben Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention in 1787, he was asked, "What have we got - a Republic or a Monarchy?" His reply, "A Republic, if you can keep it."

His skepticism was prescient, IMO.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

I think knowing something is wrong and doing nothing about it is very much a sign weakness, cowardice actually. Ignorance is at least a defence.

Which is exactly what Trump is doing. If he knew the system was corrupt, why did he do nothing about it and why was he ignorant of the party process that allowed himself to be steamrolled?

You call him a great man, but by your own definition is an ignorant coward.

It's pretty clear he is learning as he goes - he is only just realising the depth of the problem and is speaking out to millions.
We have to congratulate him for turning his ignorance into knowledge too and now doing something about it.

He could easily go back to his mansion and live it up. The fact he is even running in the face of death threats and hate is testament to his courage.

Oh, so he didn't know the system was corrupt, even though he admits that he has been part of that very system? Remember, he admits to contributing to politicians because he "knew how the game was played".

And how can you say that he is doing something about it? His ignorance just caused him to become a victim of it. Do you really believe that just because he tries to place the blame on someone else and has his supporters crying up a storm means he is "doing something about it"?

Are we still in kindergarten?

He's been part of the lobbying establishment. I doubt very much he was up to speed on the delegate allocation process for potential nominees.

By using his platform now to raise the issue to the fore he most certainly is doing something about it. The world is talking about it. At least he is trying as opposed to going home and hiding. You can call it whining if you like, but those that change the way of things are often accused of whining by those that prefer to hide and submit to things they disagree with. Leaders have voices and make them heard.

a reply to: matafuchs

Posts such as your and UKTruth's remind me of those that sang the praises of Obama when he ran for his first term. Regardless of what happened or what was said, their Dear Leader could do no wrong. The circular logic and cognitive dissonance is used to create this false narrative inside their minds and they bask in the glory of ignorance.

It's sad to think that after the last two presidencies, we still have people that approach politics like an infatuation with the new hot girl in school.

Honestly, it confuses me that people cannot see what is going on here.

a reply to: UKTruth

Read my previous post.

This has gone from a spirited discussion to a "get down on your knees to service the Donald" fanboy fest.

Spin it all you want. What ever you have to tell yourself is fine by me.

I worship no man or god and this is the level you and others are taking it.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Read my previous post.

This has gone from a spirited discussion to a "get down on your knees to service the Donald" fanboy fest.

Spin it all you want. What ever you have to tell yourself is fine by me.

I worship no man or god and this is the level you and others are taking it.

Acknowledging someones courage is not worshiping,
Admiring a persons achievements is also not worshiping.

I think it's pretty healthy to recognise others and give them credit where it's deserved.

We're talking about a very successful man, who is running for the Presidency against a torrent of hate and threats, who is challenging a system that is not working for the people - and he is currently winning. What's not to admire...

a reply to: introvert

Hell, I don't even like Trump, but you are ignorant if you don't see that exposing corruption benefits everyone. I would think you would be GLAD someone speaks out against a corrupt process and instead you are doing everything you can do belittle the messenger instead of being appreciative of the message.

originally posted by: yeahright

originally posted by: UKTruth
As John Adams said:

I have this mental image of all of our Founding Fathers spinning in their graves like lathes. They rebelled against a 'tyranny' that was a freaking utopia compared to what the average American has to tolerate today.

As Ben Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention in 1787, he was asked, "What have we got - a Republic or a Monarchy?" His reply, "A Republic, if you can keep it."

His skepticism was prescient, IMO.

Very true - but what is lost can be found again.
I don't see a candidate running that can fix the mess we are in (and I mean that globally), but I am hopeful that we're on the verge of stopping this madness and at least create the environment to begin healing it.

a reply to: introvert

You are the one down on your knees here. You are slurping the rhetoric that fits you. This is not about worship. I do not worship Trump. I agree with him on issues. Issues that mean something to the country.

Trump, in a nutshell, is a ATS member in mindset. He is against it all. He is trying to expose it all but no one listens and they call him...a whiner. Or a baby. Or ignorant....

If what is happening to him does not show he is the outsider he is trying to be then again, you are simply deluding yourself.

This is no different than ANY other race. Fact is that the establishment fanboys are not out in front yet.

a reply to: UKTruth

I think it's pretty healthy to recognise others and give them credit where it's deserved.

I've given him credit. He deserves credit for stumbling in to this election not knowing how things work, becoming a victim out of ignorance and trying to blame someone else for his failures.

You call that courage. I call that idiocy.

We're talking about a very successful man, who is running for the Presidency against a torrent of hate and threats, who is challenging a system that is not working for the people - and he is currently winning. What's not to admire...

He has been successful. I do not deny that.

It's just hard for me to admire fools. Trump made himself a fool with this last debacle.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: introvert

Hell, I don't even like Trump, but you are ignorant if you don't see that exposing corruption benefits everyone. I would think you would be GLAD someone speaks out against a corrupt process and instead you are doing everything you can do belittle the messenger instead of being appreciative of the message.

What is his message? The system is corrupt and it's Cruz's fault that Trump didn't know what he was doing?

People keep saying he is speaking out against corruption, but it appears that all he is doing is failing to recognize it and become it's victim...and then blames others.

Where is the "moral to the story" in all this? He's taught us that it's ok to pass the buck and forego personal responsibility, because the system is corrupt.

a reply to: matafuchs

I've only stated known facts. No rhetoric needed.

Trump, in a nutshell, is a ATS member in mindset. He is against it all. He is trying to expose it all but no one listens and they call him...a whiner. Or a baby. Or ignorant....

But I'm an ATS member and I don't think that way. I'm not against it all and neither are all ATS members. What you are doing projecting your beliefs, personified by Trump, on to the membership because it makes you feel safer.

Safety in numbers.

If what is happening to him does not show he is the outsider he is trying to be then again, you are simply deluding yourself.

He's an insider. He's admitted that he plays the same game and funded corrupt politicians. What is happening is not happening because the system is corrupt. It's happening because Trump wasn't wise enough to have his # together to fight that corrupt system.

And now that he is the victim of his own ignorance, pro-Trump people want to spin this like he is intentionally providing a great service.

Like I said, no different than the pro-Obama bots of previous elections. Being called delusional by such a person is a badge of honor, as it means I have not fallen for the bs.

a reply to: matafuchs

He does not need this. He has a company that is rock solid, a beautiful wife and family and no worries. He is simply another Rand Paul trying to show the corruption.

Please do not insult Rand or Ron by comparing Trump to them, Trump is not even close.

The rest of your post is just laughable

a reply to: introvert

And now that he is the victim of his own ignorance, pro-Trump people want to spin this like he is intentionally providing a great service.

I think youre wrong, Trump IS providing a great service every time he cries foul like this.

He is showing everyone with common sense, and with principle just what an inept, egomaniacal, tantrum throwing, crybaby he is, who cannot take responsibility for anything. And exposing his supporters as the same.

originally posted by: CrazyWater
a reply to: introvert

And now that he is the victim of his own ignorance, pro-Trump people want to spin this like he is intentionally providing a great service.

I think youre wrong, Trump IS providing a great service every time he cries foul like this.

He is showing everyone with common sense, and with principle just what an inept, egomaniacal, tantrum throwing, crybaby he is, who cannot take responsibility for anything. And exposing his supporters as the same.

I stand corrected.