Secular activist is killed after criticizing militant Islam

a reply to: slider1982

No, it's a human problem. People are more likely to kill people of their own demographic. That's a problem all over the world. Buddhists are more likely to be killed by other Buddhists; and the same goes for Muslims, Christians, and every other religious group. But that's because humans of all demographics commit crimes of passion.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

has nothing to do with "views on apostasy" i mean if i listen to you tell it you'd think the word apostate was gibberish.

a reply to: TechniXcality

That's even more ridiculous and just shows your utter lack of knowledge on this subject. I've stated many times that it's Muslims like myself who are the ones targeted in these situations. I've even stated many times on ATS that many Muslims don't even consider me a Muslim. When I visit other Muslim communities, I have a tendency to become respected by the individuals but shunned by the scholars and leaders, specifically because I call them out for their religious inconsistencies and innovations. In other words, there's a good chance I understand the actual meaning behind the word "apostate" more than you do.

But that's the difference in people who spend their lives working on these subjects and people who go on the internet to express their false "expertise" of them. You always seem to try to find a reason to justify your dislike of Islam, while I actually research the underlying issues and try to find solutions to them. I've even made a habit of ignoring threads like this because it's always people talking about stuff they know nothing about.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: slider1982

No, it's a human problem. People are more likely to kill people of their own demographic. That's a problem all over the world.

Yes and that will be due to most people in the world not travelling or living outside there local vicinity hence the odds of being killed by "one of their own" being higher!!!.. A complete non argument..

I can only speak for myself but I have come across far more hate from Radical Muslims than any other religious group, my local area is Muslim dominated and my local Muslim counselor will still not even shake hands with a women???!!! I have lived in various places around the world and even in some one of the most Christian countries on the planet so I do have something to gauge this against. On a side note I also lived in Trinidad and Tobago and know first hand what happened there regarding the coup with Abu Bakr in 1990..

It is fairly damning evidence against people that take a radical view on Islam, that simply is not shared with other religions no matter how you try and look at the incidents and figures. AGAIN personal observation nothing more or less..



RA

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So then we absolutely agree, Islam needs reform and it starts with the scholars and the doctrine. Instead of telling me how wrong I am whenever a thread is made that involves the actions of Islamists how about you start talking about the reform and what it is going to take to put it in action? I've told you before you are not my problem you do not have a evil view, but to act like that is a normal view (as stated) or a view that is widely accepted is another story. It seems like we don't have much disagreement at this point in the conversation. Most of all I am sad for the victims wether they be apostates(secular Muslims) or infidel and I want a solution. Not this continued argument with someone who clearly is not a threat and does not hold a right wing extremist ideology, so where do we start?

a reply to: TechniXcality

You realize you're being a very big hypocrite, right?
On the one hand you're claiming that this problem is all of them, and you're doing it on a story about some Muslims murdering other Muslims because they didn't conform to their extremist beliefs...

More Muslims are murdered by Islamic extremists than any other group.

The very article you're referencing is disproving the generalized claims you (and others) repeatedly try to make. It proves (as if it needs proving at all) that extremism is the problem, not a religious belief.

a reply to: TechniXcality

No, we don't agree. Islam doesn't need reform; some cultural interpretations of Islam need reform. For example, Islam doesn't discriminate racially or oppress women; but misogynist cultural interpretations do. That's why there are Islamic feminist groups in Muslim countries and communities that use the Qur'an to justify their positions. If Islam itself were the problem, those Muslim women's rights activists would have no argument to make.

But even then, the problems are vastly exaggerated. I'm more likely to get robbed in America than I am to have any violence committed against me by Muslims or in a Muslim country. In fact, the violence in those countries in general would decrease dramatically if the West would quit arming their despotic leaders and paramilitary groups. Even the Muslim scholars who disagree with me never have tried to harm me or have me harmed.

My own dad is a part time Imam and I've even gotten into major religious debates with him and his colleagues (also Imams and community leaders). But there's never been any violence or threats of violence between us either.

In other words, the crime in the OP is incredibly rare. I sympathize with the victim & their family, just as I sympathize with the victims of other crimes. But trying to paint the religion itself for crimes like that is wrong, which is where we're clearly disagreeing.

Edit to add: LOL I just noticed that I'm really grumpy. I think it's because I'm juggling too many things in real life, so I haven't put up my mental filter yet. Hmm, and that sounds like a lame excuse... I might need to take a little time before I reply, so my words aren't tainted by frustration and all-around grumpiness.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: enlightenedservant

So then we absolutely agree, Islam needs reform and it starts with the scholars and the doctrine.

Are you saying the same about the reforming of the Catholic faith because of their abusers?
Are you saying the same about American Evangelicals for their abuses against others?
Are you saying the same about $cientologists?
Are you saying the same about ....

Once again, you're trying to claim that an entire system of belief is somehow responsible for the actions of a violent minority, while ignoring the reality that extremism comes in many forms, and that amongst the many million of Muslims in our own countries a handful of them are extreme in their beliefs.

I find it quite bizarre that you can quote a story perfectly proving this and somehow distort that in an effort to prove a point that the article itself disproves.

a reply to: TechniXcality

I have to step in here because although I cant stand ANY religion, you are posting from a moral high ground you do not have.

If you want to condemn a religion and all its followers, it is no different to this:

You are an American an therefore you are complicit in the nuclear bombing of innocent Japanese cities in WW2. About 250,000 innocents died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the hands of the Americans.

In the American Vietnam war about 250,000 innocent people were killed by the Americans, truly a disgusting cost for fighting communism.

More recently in Afghanistan about 100,000 and in Iraq 150,000, so all up, probably with reporting all being on the side of the 'west' I wouldn't be shy to say that your foreign policy has murdered over a million innocent people.

I will also add here that reports of Americans raping Japanese, European and Vietnamese women are rife, so if i say about 10,000 rapes occurred in the last 60 years Im not exaggerating...

So you murdering, rapist, what can we do about the Americans because on paper, they are a much lager problem than the muslims and I dont want this massive raping bombing and murdering machine in my country.

a reply to: WeRpeons

When radicalized parents raise their children at a very young age to hate the west and those who don't follow their strict and twisted view of Islam, it's a threat that will never go away. There will always be young radicalized Islamists taking the place of a father or mother who will kill in the name of Islam. There will be posters that will claim your bashing a religion, but ignore the basic FACT it's the teachings of Mohammed that incite believers to become radicalized. It's a cancer that feeds upon itself.

So why is it only reaching a crisis point since 911. Why wasnt their twisted view of Islam prevalent in the 1960's..1970's.

Wouldn't have anything to do with the way the middle east is carved up by the West would it? Funny that.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Blaming America is fine, we certainly have a hand in the messbut it wasn't the American government who killed this critic for speaking out against Islam. Regardless it's a sad situation all around and yes there is a lot of nuance.

And from your op you blame Muhammad, nuance is lost on you if you cant see what you did there

we always hear that the issues with Islam are cultural that it has nothing to do with the perfect teachings of Muhammad if this is even partially true

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight


It has become more prevalent due to the massive immigration structure that has been in place since the late 90s that has seen a big influx of people from muslim dominated countries coming into western society. Before that immigration was no where near the level we now see in Europe from the middle east.

I also go back to my previous post, what does a Radical Jihadist from say the Philippines have in common with a Afgan or Saudi in the Middle east??.. Nothing apart from a religion that they share yet there are still highly active Jihadist in the Philippines that have not been affected in the slightest by current middle eastern affairs so I can only assume that they hate anyone elses way of life if it does not mirrior their own twisted and psychopatic view of the world.


RA

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Then what do you call those who kill in the name of Islam for speaking out against Islam?

Idiots? Who have not even read the Qur'an?

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." - Qur'an, 109:6
"There shall be no compulsion in the religion." - Qur'an, 2:256
"You, [O Muhammad], are not but a warner." - Qur'an, 35:23
"We are most knowing of what they say, and you (Muhammad) are not over them a tyrant. But remind by the Qur'an whoever fears My threat." - Qur'an, 50:45
"So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder." - Qur'an, 88:21-22
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." - Qur'an, 18:29

Idiots? Whoever blindly believes any religious book is an idiot, muslim, christian or whatever.

Secularists are under attack in many places, especially here in America, though we're not being hacked with machetes yet. Look at all the anti-gay and anti-abortion laws coming out- thousands of them around the country, and now these "religious freedom" laws. Even science is under attack because it doesn't follow religion. Hell, even the Russians are going religious now, though Putin being religious is about as believable as Trump doing it.

The matter here, as pointed out, is over-generalization.

"ISLAM" is generally spoken of as a homogeneous, monolithic entity that "is" and "does" things.

That is patently absurd.

Islam is a generic set of ideas, practices, rituals, history, social and cultural norms, etc., that has a wide range of individual and local interpretations, variations, schools of thought, etc. etc.

Islam is NOT an entity, IT does not do things, think things, act in certain ways.

There are nearly 2 billion Muslims, spread across 50 or more countries of the world.

"They" are not all the same; to make such statements is absurd.

As another wise poster said ... "carry on."

Im pretty liberal. # Islam at this point. Ban the damn religion in Western nations.

It is literally a religion where you have to ignore where it tells you to rape and murder infidels in their book because hey that part doesnt count says the 'moderates.'

I dont know how it is there but in UK I would definitely say it is something about the culture that has been allowed in in recent years not just Islam.

I am nearly 50 and have gone to school with muslims and worked with many over the years. I never gave their religion much thought as they were just like me first and foremost British. The only thing different is if we were socialising outside work many didnt drink and many struggled with the lovely aroma of bacon sandwiches in the morning.. Basically except for their religion of choice in every other way they were British.

However, in recent years the more radical form of Islam seems to have encroached on British lives (especially on British muslims who have been here for decades). So much so that a lot fear speaking out about it within their own communities as was shown in this interview with Katie Hopkins where a muslim caller said he was concerned about sending his children to mosque www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

Look at the poor guy in Scotland who was murdered a couple of weeks ago for wishing people Happy Easter. If that doesnt show the dangers that have encroached on British Society then nothing will.

I think there are probably many British muslims who would like to speak out but they are too frightened too. The Solicitor acting for the family of the guy in Scotland has been receiving death threats so someone in authority ie the Government and Police need to start taking a tougher stance on these radicals so that British muslims feel more able to discussproblems.a reply to: TechniXcality

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

You have a point there. The U.S. sticking their nose into the Middle East definitely influenced terrorism against the west. However, you don't use your religion to justify revenge. Killing infidels, chopping off heads, the practice of stoning people to death, throwing homosexuals off of 10 story buildings head first, pushing for Sharia Law, and purposely targeting innocent people and children who are Christians or don't follow their beliefs, is clearly rooted in Islam.

Violence in the middle east has been going on since ancient times. The U.S. and European involvement has only intensified that violence against the west.