North Carolina Loses 400 Jobs as PayPal Pulls Facility over ‘Bathroom Bill’

originally posted by: proteus33
and how is it discrimination for making someone use the correct for their gender restroom facilities especially in high school ?

For someone never really giving this much thought or having any exposure to these things, I'm sure it all seems bewildering, nonsensical, unfathomable and really weird and queer but I'm going to use some of your own words to help explain a few of the the basic concepts to hopefully give you some insight?

I'll start with what you said "correct for their gender". In a nutshell simplifying as much as possible and omitting all the variables and range across the spectrum, transgender people do not feel the person they are inside to themselves as a boy/girl, man/woman is the one that their body says they should be or the way others see them. These are very deep seated feelings that seem contradictory to physical reality but are nevertheless fundamental to a person's personality and core sense of who they know themselves to be.

Everyone has their own internalized sense of gender but most don't even realize this because it matches their physical sex characteristics and who they are as people. For trans people, these things do not match and many are often driven to do everything possible to make them match including their changing their appearance, changing who they are known as by others by transitioning to live as the gender different from the sex they were born as and yet others will take cross sex hormones and have surgery to correct their mismatch of sex and their gender.



This is not something undertaken easily or quickly, on a whim or for fun and is a very difficult path with a lot of hardships and struggle. Transgender kids are evaluated by medical professionals, participate in on-going therapy with psychologists and counselors and it is usually a process that involves parents and can take years. Being transgender is not considered to be a mental illness in the same way someone being gay isn't considered to be mentally ill - it is just part of normal human variation that always has and always will happen. Scientific research points this being something people are born with.

A person's sense of their own gender develops early in life. When were you sure you were a boy? Most transgender people will say they knew very early in life that things weren't quite right and as this sense of gender identity does develop as some of the earliest and most dominants part of personality, being transgender can also happen in little kids.

For young children some as early as 4 or 5, they are simply unable to live and be the gender that aligns with what the doctor said they were when they were born. This is usually the last thing in the world parents want for their kids and many do everything in their power to make Johnny into a proper little man. This makes Johnny very very unhappy to the point of clinical depression sometimes and 6 year olds talking about killing themselves makes this all a very serious thing because Johnny knows in his heart and soul he was supposed to be a she.

In families with affirming parents and with the support of professional guidance, when kids like Johnny have been consistent, persistent and insistent over years about being a girl and not a boy (not a phase), some will often go through a social transition which can include Johnny becoming Judy in name with the switch to girls clothes, hairstyle and pronouns. Other transgender kids may transition just before puberty or some in high school, some as young adults and even others later in life after trying a long time to fight it. These are the best case scenarios but in those where parents aren't supportive or rejecting, often kids will end up on the streets doing sex work for survival, be addicted to drugs or alcohol and in extreme crushing depression. Over half will attempt suicide.



At puberty, things do get more complicated because now little Judy's body tries to become more masculinized which causes great distress. Liken this to the feeling you would have had as a boy if you started growing breasts, your skin got softer and your hips wider. Kinda yucky right? Turning into a girl would probably freak you completely out, right? That's how Judy would feel if her body started turning her into a man. Transgender kids at this age can be given drugs that stop the physical changes caused by puberty so Judy's voice doesn't deepen, her muscles don't bulk up and she doesn't get hair on her face. Delayed puberty can go on for a year or two.

Beyond that, Judy will begin taking female hormones so she will go through most of the changes other girls do like getting breasts and pretty much everything else except having periods because she doesn't have those parts. If you look at the pictures (there's more on pg 8) or the video you can see these girls don't look like boys. They also don't act like boys or feel like boys because they really are girls and they fully live as and are know as girls. Most of these kids that have grown up this way will have surgery after they are 18 so they can be fully female with the exception of being unable to carry children.

What is discriminatory and wrong about these "bathroom bills" goes something like this: Imagine Johnny became Judy in the first grade and is now in high school and has experienced nothing else but being treated as and known as just a regular girl but is suddenly told she has to use the boy's bathroom. Can you imagine the havoc that would cause to her emotionally or the danger that would put her in using the boy's room? For transgender girls, using the girl's bathroom is correct for their gender. Think about it.

There are transgender boys too, born with female bodies but live as and are known as boys. In either case, being transgender is not about sexuality or in other words, a transgender person can be straight or gay or bi or any of the things anyone else can be. Most typically, transgender girls like other girls are interested in straight boys.

As you can see, even a quick and simplified explanation of this is long and complicated because it is a complicated and nuanced thing.

i was a horn dog like most of my peers back in them days and would have loved to have access to the ladies locker room. just because a person says they are this or that does not mean they are being truthful

So, hopefully you see that being transgender is a little more than just saying you are or wearing a frilly frock to get in the girls locker room.

originally posted by: Freija


I've recently come across this video of a very together, cute young transgirl getting ready to start her senior year in high school discussing the apparent ease and success of her "transition" and the reactions of her classmates and teachers which is not necessarily representative of the way things go for a lot of these kids but inspiring nevertheless.

I can say with a fair degree of certainty her road getting to this point was not quite as easy as it may seem and that it must take hella strength and resiliency to stay in a school where her life before was known. Clearly, she has no delusions about the body she was born with or how she got to where she is and maybe it's just me but I can't see anything other than a typical and cute teenage girl that's going places in life. I said earlier that transgender girls are not boys. Am I right?

Thanks to anyone that has waded through my posts on all of this and for your consideration of just how heinous and wrong these anti-trans laws are. There's not really a lot of things I get upset over but this certainly qualifies as one of them.

I wish people in favor of this bill would watch the video and then imagine forcing this teen to go into the men's room in a public place just because of her DNA, or the fact that she was born with a penis. Everyone is so concerned about their daughter going into the women's room in case a bad man goes in there, but they aren't concerned about this young person going into a public restroom with a BUNCH of men????

a reply to: Freija

Aaaaannnnnddddd we should be championing this?

How about we let Nature play its course?

Novelty doesn't equate to longevity or strength.

originally posted by: Generation9
a reply to: Freija

Aaaaannnnnddddd we should be championing this?

How about we let Nature play its course?

Novelty doesn't equate to longevity or strength.

We should be knowledgeable about this. We should not live in fear and ignorance. That was the point of her post - knowledge is what we are championing.

How about we let people be who they really are as long as they aren't hurting anyone? How about we treat others the way we would all like to be treated - with dignity and respect?

Novelty happens everywhere in life - has always and will always. Understand it - no need to hate it.

originally posted by: Generation9
a reply to: Freija

Aaaaannnnnddddd we should be championing this?

How about we let Nature play its course?

Novelty doesn't equate to longevity or strength.

So you are for more suicide to thin the herds so to speak right? A darwinist right? If you really want to play that. stop taking drugs,going to the doctor and live off the land. Then come back and say you are for lettign nature take its course(if you dont die that is)

a reply to: kaylaluv

Thats the thing. And I think anyone who knows me here knows I am pretty strong in the "pro LGBT" thing. So take this with that in mind:

No one should have any reason to know whats going on downstairs, or what may have gone on downstairs in the past (or what may happen in the future). Its low class to really push that kind of thing into public for most folks.

So, with that being said....you will never see me proudly proclaim my heterosexuality. You won't see me march in any parades supporting my right to be hetero. You likely will never see my wife and I kiss in public. Or do a lot of hand holding. Although there are brief moments of affection (she's shorter than me, so i kiss the top of her head while pulling her in for a quick hug if i need to be publicly affectionate).

And I absolutely will never, ever ask you what you have hiding behind your zipper. So walk right on in, do your thing, and feel safe that I really don't care. LOL, except i can't go while you are in there, no matter who you are.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: yuppa
Abraham lincoln was a racist. look it up. in his own words no less. the civil war was about money and not about the slaves in truth. he even broke the laws when he passed the amendment after the war preventing states the option of secession. not to mention 11 laws he broke during the civil war.

Yes, he thought blacks were inferior.

However, he thought it morally wrong for one human to own another. He didn't think God would approve.

He considered shipping slaves to another country so they could colonize their own "country". They didn't like that.

True, except for Lincoln thinking it was OK for the NORTH to Own the south and OWN all the profits. Boy he sure was a humanitarian thinking no one should b e owned,Well except for other americans who could get th e north fatter and fatter. Traded one Slave for another one. LIncoln didnt care what God thought if he did he would had negotiated with the south instead of being a bully who beat up his mark because he didnt get his lunch money.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: dawnstar
i live in nc and pay ripoff can go elsewhere . and how is it discrimination for making someone use the correct for their gender restroom facilities especially in high school ? i was a horn dog like most of my peers back in them days and would have loved to have access to the ladies locker room. just because a person says they are this or that does not mean they are being truthful and you got to think of others rights too

If they look female they should be allowed to use th efemale restroom. if they look male the mens room. As long as they dont whip it out and flash someone it shoudnt be a issue, but those hypocrites dont want their manhood questioned or want to get hot an d bothered by imagining a Transgender using th e bathroom. I dalmost bet you they are all insecure with their sexuality.

a reply to: yuppa

As I mentioned in another post, the college my daughter goes to has EVERY restroom marked simply as "restroom", so every restroom is for every person -- it's not just a transgender thing. I think the transgender issue is not relevant.

For example, I (a heterosexual male, born male) could be using a stall next to a stall in the same restroom being used by a heterosexual woman. There are even some restrooms that are still designed as men's room (leftover from before they became unisex) in which there are a row of urinals. Conceivably, a man could be using the urinal as a woman walks in to use a stall. If a man wants privacy, then use a stall.

By the way, as I mentioned in that other post, even the dorm restrooms are 100% unisex. Before you ask "doesn't that invite the young men and women to be promiscuous?", my answer to that would be that they live in dorms anyway. If they wanted to be promiscuous, they could just use the dorm rooms, not the restrooms.

It really isn't that big of a deal; using a restroom is a natural act that everyone does every day. It shouldn't matter if I'm doing it in a stall next to a woman or in a stall next to a man.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I wish people in favor of this bill would watch the video and then imagine forcing this teen to go into the men's room in a public place

Where this really concerns me is in the school system. If I was a transgender girl in high school that was suddenly now expected to use the boy's room, I would simply drop out and never go back. Being somewhat familiar with the psychology of trans youth, I can also see how this could also trigger a suicidal tipping point.

The aim of parents raising these kids is to have them be treated as normally and as inclusively as any other kid in spite of their condition so they don't grow up thinking something is wrong with them or that they are broken or not good enough. Most of these kids are completely blended in but these laws make that very difficult if not impossible.

The good news is that the Department of Education Title IV laws prohibiting sex discrimination in schools has been interpreted to include gender identity as falling under the same category. School boards that choose to fight this face a lengthy and expensive legal battle and most of the challenges to this interpretation of Title IX have been lost. The DoE has the legal authority to withdraw Federal funding when not in compliance with this law and NC and MS stand to lose billions.

originally posted by: Generation9
Aaaaannnnnddddd we should be championing this?
How about we let Nature play its course?
Novelty doesn't equate to longevity or strength.

Who knows what the hell you're trying to say here? You're either confused, lost or attempting to join a discussion you have no idea what the topic is. If you're just trying to slam transgender children, there's plenty of other threads where that has been done and plenty of other jerks who will probably pat you on the back. This thread is about condemning hateful, discriminatory unjust bigoted laws enacted in North Carolina and Mississippi.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
No one should have any reason to know whats going on downstairs, or what may have gone on downstairs in the past (or what may happen in the future). Its low class to really push that kind of thing into public for most folks.

Agreed but yet what do you think this is all about?

originally posted by: Box of Rain
As I mentioned in another post, the college my daughter goes to has EVERY restroom marked simply as "restroom", so every restroom is for every person -- it's not just a transgender thing. I think the transgender issue is not relevant.

For example, I (a heterosexual male, born male) could be using a stall next to a stall in the same restroom being used by a heterosexual woman. There are even some restrooms that are still designed as men's room (leftover from before they became unisex) in which there are a row of urinals. Conceivably, a man could be using the urinal as a woman walks in to use a stall. If a man wants privacy, then use a stall.

Wait what? You mean hellfire hasn't rained down from the sky? The earth hasn't opened up and swallowed this college and its town whole in retribution? Women and men have bodily functions in proximity to one another?

Blasphemy! Outrage!

This is epic!

a reply to: Freija

oh my.

i can't tell if they are pandering, or if we just tend to elect the stupidest among us.

originally posted by: Box of Rain
a reply to: yuppa

As I mentioned in another post, the college my daughter goes to has EVERY restroom marked simply as "restroom", so every restroom is for every person -- it's not just a transgender thing. I think the transgender issue is not relevant.

For example, I (a heterosexual male, born male) could be using a stall next to a stall in the same restroom being used by a heterosexual woman. There are even some restrooms that are still designed as men's room (leftover from before they became unisex) in which there are a row of urinals. Conceivably, a man could be using the urinal as a woman walks in to use a stall. If a man wants privacy, then use a stall.

By the way, as I mentioned in that other post, even the dorm restrooms are 100% unisex. Before you ask "doesn't that invite the young men and women to be promiscuous?", my answer to that would be that they live in dorms anyway. If they wanted to be promiscuous, they could just use the dorm rooms, not the restrooms.

It really isn't that big of a deal; using a restroom is a natural act that everyone does every day. It shouldn't matter if I'm doing it in a stall next to a woman or in a stall next to a man.

THAts th eway all bathrooms need to be done as well. it kills th e problem and i s perfectly legal.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yeah. This whole thing is ridiculous and unenforceable with any degree of dignity or equality.

NC's law is making its distinction based on a person's birth certificate only, not anatomy. Some states including NC will change or issue a new birth certificate only upon proof that sex reassignment surgery has been performed. This excludes trans women that for health or financial reasons or simply because they don't want this surgery from being legal to pee where it is the most appropriate for them.

Nine states have no such surgical requirement for getting a corrected birth certificate so theoretically, you are still going to have women meeting the requirements of NC's law that may have male parts.

Several states will not change or issue new birth certificates even if a person has undergone SRS. In this scenario, you're going to have women with standard female sex kit i.e. a vagina forced to use the men's room because they can't get the right paperwork.

Additionally, genital sex reassignment surgery for natal females becoming men, metoidioplasty or phalloplasty is not quite as thorough or satisfactory as vaginoplasty for those going the other way and many transgender men forego "bottom surgery". No birth certificate for them so these buff burly guys are going to have to use the ladies room. No thank you, please.

The wording on some of these other crafty anti-trans bills is specifying orignial birth certificate so no matter what a trans person does, they're screwed if they have to go to the bathroom so it really does seem like some sort of intentional genocide.

This is flat messed up.

Had to throw a positive in, just cuz I felt like we needed one.

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf announced plans Wednesday to sign an executive order to protect LGBT employees in response to North Carolina’s anti-gay bill.

These "religious freedom" bills are going to backfire.

a reply to: Freija

Elmer FUD, is brainwashed, Jesus did not teach that Christians have a morel right to discriminate.

This man hides his hatred behind Religion as if this gives him the right to judge. Only G-d Judges.

Thanks for the video, I found it really entertaining.

a reply to: Informer1958

Thanks! Yeah, this is something, isn't it?

You might like this one too. It was posted sometime last year but still worth a look.

(caution: potty language) (no pun intended)

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys

originally posted by: JDmOKI
This is a Status Quo law making it so the genitalia you have at birth corresponds to the bathroom you use. period

Refer back a post.

And we'll ask the same of you.

Would you feel comfortable sending your 6 year old girl in the bathroom with Buck Angel?

More comfortable with that than sending my 6 year old girl in the bathroom with the pedophile using the law to gain access, since of the two I think Buck Angel is less likely to do anything.

www.washingtontimes.com...

Meanwhile, PayPal is only showing how hypocritical it is by having other headquarters in countries that have laws against homosexuals.

It is only being pc in America for the latest pc, sjw trend. Gays are being killed in some other countries, but America wants to argue about bathrooms.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

More comfortable with that than sending my 6 year old girl in the bathroom with the pedophile using the law to gain access....

There's a pedophile access law? Damn!



Oh wait! Maybe you mean these kinda guys?

Report: Former Congressman Accused of Sex Abuse by at Least Four Teenagers

Disgraced former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert quietly paid out millions of dollars in hush money because at least four minors lodged “credible accusations of sexual abuse” against him, a Chicago Tribune investigation finds.

Last year Hastert was indicted on charges relating to the payouts, which the FBI said totaled at least $3.5 million and related back to Hastert’s time as a high school teacher and wrestling coach in the 1970s, where authorities believe he sexually abused his students.

Just a few little tidbits I ran across this evening:

Feds “Ready” For Transgender Discrimination Complaints In North Carolina

The agency held last year that banning a transgender employee from restrooms matching their gender in workplaces with 15 or more workers violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Feldblum and another EEOC official told BuzzFeed News that federal law supersedes local and state laws.

Charles Barkley Wants The NBA To Move All-Star Game From North Carolina

“As a black person, I’m against any form of discrimination — against whites, Hispanics, gays, lesbians, however you want to phrase it,” Barkley told CNN Sunday. “It’s my job, with the position of power that I’m in and being able to be on television, I’m supposed to stand up for the people who can’t stand up for themselves. So, I think the NBA should move the All-Star game from Charlotte.”

North Carolina Cops Have No Idea How They're Supposed to Enforce the Transgender Bathroom Bill

Among the ethical and moral quandaries North Carolina waded into when Governor Pat McCrory signed the state’s noxious LGBT bill into law, there was a more pragmatic question: How the hell are police supposed to enforce the biological-sex bathroom provision? It sounds like the cops have no idea.