England Needs More Permanent Gypsy Sites

Here's a presentation from a man in a position to know. At 19:25 he tells us more permanent sites are needed.

What are the views on ATS? Will more permanent sites help?

a reply to: Kester

That would be nice methinks

Who doesn't like having their fortune told and listening to good live music?

Not a Briton though so my vote doesn't have that much weight

I do believe in the virtuosity of hospitality in the individual and social levels

I'd encourage the authorities to build more traveller sites.

In the Irish Republic.

That way they can all travel back to their spiritual homeland and give the rest of us some peace.

"Permanent Gypsy sites", its an oximoron. As soon as they stop 'travelling', I'd like them to pay some taxes.

originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
I'd encourage the authorities to build more traveller sites.

In the Irish Republic.

That way they can all travel back to their spiritual homeland and give the rest of us some peace.

Not all of them are Irish though?

Gypsies, or travellers are fairly common where I live. In fact, four fields away from my house, in rural Wiltshire, some travellers have plonked two mobile homes in a field, tarmacked half the field and stuck a big security fence around the place. Does not seem like such a permanent set of structures allows them to be called "travellers" any more.

It'll take ten years of the Council wasting money on legal process to get them removed. In between times, as has happened before, the field will become a home for another ten mobile homes.

These are not travellers. They are people who think the normal laws don't apply to them.

I'm not even going to mention the rubbish!

a reply to: Kester

With the correct facility's they are actually essential but it depends on two thing's, the People whom use the site and there settled neighbours.

Some travellers are anti social where settled folk are concerned but it also has to be said that most settled folk are hostile to the idea of having travellers as neighbours and it really is six of one and half a dozen of the other sometime's.

Crime rates usually go up at least in the short term when settlers set up temporary sites, I have no idea for the statistics of permanent site's though.

Interesting and I suppose I really don't have an opinion except that I like to take people on an individual basis so the good one's I would love as neighbours while the bad one's (traveller or settled it does not matter) I would not want as neighbours.

There is the problem of Culture clash though but with them migrant crisis it has paled to insignificance, the travellers are mostly our own people but they have unique culture that is not based on the same settled principles, they are essentially modern day nomad's.

There is a flip side, the traveller culture and traditions will be lost with the advent of more permanent settlements and sites since they will then make the transition albeid slowly into becoming ordinary settled folk, there own culture will lose it's identity though of course it will linger in these enclaves for a generation or three.

The other argument is that most travellers are not Gypsy's, most took it up as part of the new age movement's of the 70's and 80's but there are two distinct and unique groups whom are mingled into them today.

Genuine Roma Gypsy's, not just immigrants from europe our own can trace there root's back century's.
Irish Travellers, mostly not Gypsy's but descended from the Irish Rover tradition, they are not a distinct people or culture but are descended from ordinary irish but with a semi nomadic culture that goes back into the depth's of history, traditionally the rovers were the outcasts, criminal and remnants of the defeated among the clans and tribes of ireland and they banded together into seperate band's or if you like Rover familys (clans) with the (Attitude of) world against them and only one another to rely upon (meaning they will keep there word only among themselves), they have similarity to the Gypsy's and some even call themselves Gypsy but they are not Gypsy and tend to be of Pure Irish descent.

British culture would be poorer without them but there is a great deal of animosity toward them and to be fair they have not done themselves any favours over the years with the people whom they settled by and the bad reputation they have today.


Child protection, Education and health providance would be better for members of these if they are granted more site's but there are also downsides, local crime rate rise, anti social behaviour and tensions with there new neighbours come to mind.

People are people and everyone has the right to live (Well by that you know I am not a Tory), whom really own's the land anyway?.

originally posted by: Kester
At 19:25 he tells us more permanent sites are needed.

What are the views on ATS? Will more permanent sites help?

Nothing stopping them setting up permanent sites themselves.... oh, so they want others to pay for their chosen lifestyle!

a reply to: TheShippingForecast

Here's a bit of insight from an Irish Romany.

Sure the pavee or 'tinkers', as they are sometimes called, are their own people and are an indigenous group to Ireland. They are a much larger group than the Irish Romani. Many Irish Romanies mixed in with Pavees. Others just mixed in with regular Irish folk. The Numbers are much smaller than in the UK, but make no mistake they exist and are very much Romanichal and very much Irish at the same time. I know because that’s what I am and that's what I come from.

travellerstimes.org.uk...

I used the word Gypsy in the title to mean English Romany. I would have said Traveller if I meant all the travellers. I didn't know about Irish Romanies, I'm learning already today.

a reply to: Kester

Call me corrected, nice info.

I would imagine that the few Roma whom moved to ireland probably mostly came from spain with a few from Britain and I would also imagine they blended well into the Rover society with whom they shared much in common.

Of course we know today that most of the Roma are descendant of people native to India and some of that culture has survived but did you know that despite there link to the untouchable's of india there is also a theory that they are descended from the Raj Phoot a hindu army that was sent out to battle the encroaching islamic forces that had taken northern India, the Raj Phoot unlike the untouchables were once the highest caste in India, they were litterally the nobles and royalty of ancient southern hindu india.

The story I heard was that they disappeared from history after fighting the Islamic invaders for many years, they went too deep into the enemy territory and when they tried to come back they found that India had been conquered by the Moghuls behind there back's so with no where left to go they became nomadic, in the way of these ancient armys they had there family's with them in the baggage train and the men would assemble for war so they had probably the early ancestor of the Varda with them from that time point onward.

When the Gypsy's first entered europe in the early middle ages they were thought wrongly to be Egyptian's hence they were named Gypsy's from the word Egyptian but of course they had nothing to do with egypt, it is also presumable that over there wandering's they adopted many of the custom's of the land's they passed through as well as many of the people of those places whom joined them making them a truly cosmopolitan people.

Today many traditional Roma song's are about a homeland they have never seen but of course not all Roma accept they are from India and not all Roma ARE, some are probably of persian descent, others of central asian and many simply of european much like the travellers of today they are and eclectic bunch but where there is shared tradition it does tend to tie tribes and familys together over the generation's.

a reply to: Hecate666

Travelling usually follows a repeated migratory path. In modern times the migratory path for some has become worldwide and varied. However long and complicated, or short and simple the migratory path is, it usually involves stopping in the same places. A permanent site doesn't mean not travelling. It means having a stable base to travel from. A place to overwinter.

a reply to: Kester

This is true for prolonged periods and more so for the Rova clans' but the Gypsy's were more of an outcast society with no where to go and they came to europe at a time of upheaval so many of the cultural and tribal landmarks of central asia and even europe were simply not there to act as migratory path' at thos time's.

In Romania which is today named after them the feudal lord's whom were not averse to slavery and forced labour decided that if they found a Gypsy on there land then they owned them, so they were litterally forced to settle there and work as indentured slaves and bondsmen'.

Much as happend to the blacks african slaves during the colonial period the practice of Hobbling them was common, this usually entailed slicing the underside of there foot with a hot knife to cut the tendon's, odd that today the original and lets be nice by not saying what we really think of them, the BARBARIC natives of those lands are now the minority within them though the Roma still suffer as the lowest class members of there society's.

a reply to: hellobruce

Actually planning permission is usually refused so they often buy land and throw down hardstanding over the weekend to make an illegal, semi-permanent site. If they don't have birth certificates, don't claim any legal fiction and don't sign anything there's no easy way to move them. This can be a problem.

What is needed are more council approved sites and much stiffer policing.

a reply to: LABTECH767

The Raj Phoot sounds plausible. I'm sure there are those who hold their own history. It has been said some of the Irish Travellers served as mercenaries for the Romans. Scotland has the Summer Walkers. www.amazon.co.uk...


This video shows the problem that still hasn't been properly addressed.

Id be happier if they had a permanent place for them, at least we would know where to find them, they cause so much trouble and then move on before the police can find them. I was almost blinded by one in my teens, I had a brick smashed in my face by him. the police turned up the next morning and all 15 caravans were gone so nothing happened to him but I'm left with only half my sight in my right eye
My new neighbours are of traveller background and are awful people to live next door to. I wish they would F-off back to their caravan. Iv got no respect for pikeys at all, they rob what ever they can, rip people off constantly and never pay taxes, they never get caught by the police because they just disappear to another town over night and even though we live on a fairly small island the police are either to stupid or to lazy to catch up with them

a reply to: Hecate666

I think you confuse traveling with, being hanged for staying more than 24/h in one place..

a reply to: LABTECH767

some are probably of persian descent,

Sometimes you are just blind to see the obvious, thank you

Here we have the problem explained in the first twenty seconds.

a reply to: TigStar82

Police caught up with these, but not for long. Skip to the middle of the video for the action.

a reply to: TigStar82

If Law and Order broke down in this country a lot of them would get shot in the first fortnight. They have the police to thank for their protection.