College for profit, or college for culture?

It dawned on me recently that college currently has a profit based incentive, and that's bad. You would think that a profit based model of college would actually be best for the "free market" but we all know what happens when corporate gets involved with education don't we?

The biggest incentive for a business to improve its model is not based on integrity, or any other idealistic motive, it's based on profits.

Do we really want educations taint by the for profit industry and changing and buying curriculums based solely on market demand and not on culture creation, art, and expansion?

I mean what the hell are we paying for?

a reply to: onequestion

I mean what the hell are we paying for?

You're paying for a job.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

See this is one thing I don't get why the hell am I paying for a job and why doesn't the company take any responsibility for paying for my education especially if it's to benefit you more than anything else.

What kind of ass backwards society are we running?

It's not that easy for everyone to run their own business anymore you know?

originally posted by: onequestion
It dawned on me recently that college currently has a profit based incentive, and that's bad. You would think that a profit based model of college would actually be best for the "free market" but we all know what happens when corporate gets involved with education don't we?

Yes. Common core.

We also see what happens when government takes over college loans. Price of college goes up.

mean what the hell are we paying for?

Excellent question. A college diploma is an investment that can't be sold back at a loss. It takes the actions of the graduate to further make use of that piece of paper.

The sad thing is that many worthwhile and high-paying jobs don't require a college degree. If my son decides to become a mechanic, plumber, construction worker, etc... he won't need a degree unless he wants to become a mechanical engineer or architect. So long as he can pay his way though life and is happy with what he is doing, is a degree really worth anything?

I graduated with degrees in Biology and Microbiology. It got my foot in the door with my current job 16 years ago, and since then I have moved out of the lab, focused more on math and stats, and taken the management track to be a middle supervisor over stability and SAP data management. My degrees didn't prepare me for any of what I am doing right now, but here I am.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yes but you got your start with the degree it was the foundation for the beginning of the process that brought you to what your doing now.

It also enabled you to expand your social network to include that kind of connection.

a reply to: onequestion

It's not that easy for everyone to run their own business anymore you know?

Depends what market your trying to get into. We live in the Internet age,there's tons of tools and resources out there to help you get started on running a business. It definitely isn't easy but I much prefer working for myself than I do for some corporate mechanism.

a reply to: onequestion

College is supposed to be a place that teaches you a refined set of skills and knowledge.

In today's world, those things are supposed to open doors in the job world beyond the trades and factory floor.

College also opens doors in the academic world, and that is where your idea about culture comes from, but the people who go to college solely to learn about culture are never going beyond that academic sphere and very often come from a place of independent means to begin with.

originally posted by: onequestion
It's not that easy for everyone to run their own business anymore you know?

That is more on the onerous taxes and regulations that the small business owner has to comply with and that larger operations have dedicated teams to address.

Doctors, lawyers, engineers, and scientists. This is where going to college still makes sense. Everything else can be self-taught. My focus is in IT, but I don't want to go to college to be a computer scientist. What I do is fairly well lined up to what a successful college student would do. I take on projects, enter into discussions, mingle with the crowd, and make connections in my field. Successful college individuals will immerse their selves in not just the curriculum, but naturally go the extra mile with clubs, early internships, mentorship before graduating... stuff like that.

College has been profit driven since the 80s or early 90s. By the time I took my first stab at it in late 90s it was pretty obvious what was going on. It's meant for intelligent people to propel their selves into professional career positions. It was never intended to be for everyone. That just doesn't make any damned sense. Profiteers have used idealists and bleeding hearts to promote this lower standard.

There are people with more than 1 degree who have crap for success in their careers, and in my field perhaps dozens of certifications which amount to very little if they can't go the extra mile and perform on the spot. People need to see through the standards and supposed correct path and forge their own as it makes sense to them. I create opportunities, not wait for a piece of paper to present to another employer looking over hundreds of applicants who have that same near worthless piece of paper.

if you want to succeed after college - read a subject that actually has carreer relevant education :

hint - gender studies is not on the list

a reply to: onequestion

Of course colleges have a profit motive even though most of the them are "non-profits". They need to make money to keep the doors open. It cost a ton of money to operate a huge university.

I don't get what is so nefarious about this? Some of the most well known Universities are also some of the largest hedge funds due to their endowments. Of course, I always find this funny because all the bedwetting libs on campus love to decry Wall Street, but yet have no problem reaping the benefits at their Ivory Towers with their multi-billion dollar endowments paying for everything. Harvard paid their fund manager $11 million/yr. Of course, he manages like $11 billion endowment.

On the flip side, college is an investment your future. Only rich kids are able to go to college to "find themselves." Us plebes go to open doors to better career opportunities and that means majoring and studying subjects that have value in the work place. I went to college so I could start my career. I can study philosophy, art, history, etc in my spare time.

Many companies do pay for their employee's education. I chose my first employer out of college simply because they had a great program that fed into the top 10 business schools. You'd work 70-90 hour weeks as an analyst for 2 to 4 years and they'd get you into Harvard, Stanford, Kellogg, Wharton, etc. You went to school for two years to complete the MBA and return to the company. They'd pay your full tuition. In my case it was $60k. I just had to commit to working for them for two years post graduation.

A lot of companies offer benefits to pay for continuing education, etc.

a reply to: ketsuko

College is supposed to be a place that teaches you a refined set of skills and knowledge.

No, it's supposed to be a place that teaches you a broad-based foundation of what's out there, and most importantly:
TEACH YOU HOW TO LEARN.

"Skills and knowledge" is Vo-Tech stuff. Auto mechanics, plumbing, HVAC, electrical wiring, nurses aide, etc.

A real "college education" is not just a trade school. It is a place where you learn how to learn -
you learn how to learn whatever you want to learn.

When universities eliminate 'liberal arts' prerequisites, all you have left is a 4-year "technical college." A real "university" requires that undergrads study some of EVERYTHING in their first two years - from science to maths to philosophy and art and music and literature and Western Civ and foreign language. And a student can't even formally declare a "major" until they are juniors.

Without that foundation, it's nothing more than a glorified "technical college."


Yuuuuge diff.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Yuuuuge diff.

Is that you, Tiny Hands?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ketsuko

TEACH YOU HOW TO LEARN.

What kind of idiot do you have to be to not know how to learn, or even more to the point... to be instructed on how to learn? That's just ridiculous.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Is that you, Tiny Hands?

Yep!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I am not exactly sure where "refined set of skills and knowledge" became "vo-tech." Had I meant that, I would have said "trade school." Most likely this occurred because you needed some reason to disagree with me.

a reply to: ketsuko

Nope. It occurred because you misrepresented what college/university is for.

A "college education" (if properly delivered) teaches critical thinking, research skills, open-mindedness, and a general background so that whatever 'vocation' is chosen, the pupil has a broad-based (liberal arts) education.

If colleges are teaching students how to think, why are they all liberal cesspools? I see a lot of emotional whining on campuses but very little "thinking"

a reply to: pl3bscheese

What kind of idiot do you have to be to not know how to learn, or even more to the point... to be instructed on how to learn? That's just ridiculous.

No, it isn't ridiculous.

You'd be surprised at how many people have no idea how to look outside their immediate 'knowledge'.....
they just go "by the numbers" that they managed to memorize in school (or were drilled into them in "church")
It is ridiculous, however, that "college grads" (and even high-schoolers) often don't know how to look up real research. We see it here on ATS every bloody day.

a reply to: Edumakated

That's your opinion. I disagree.