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originally posted by: NthOther
originally posted by: Woodcarver
The big question is, why do you still hold a position which cannot be verified? We may never know the whole truth but we can abstain from accepting claims which cannot be verified.
We accept claims we can't verify for ourselves all the time. In fact, most of what we consider "indisputable fact", is actually just claims made by other people that are then repeated over and over before being "canonized" in textbooks. We are trusting the authorities on the matter to tell us the truth, because we have no way of knowing for ourselves.
Take geology, for instance. The only honest science instructor I had in college prefaced the introduction to his class by stating that all theories regarding the inner workings of our planet (if it really is a "planet"--again, something we've been told but have no way of independently verifying) were just that--theories. No one has ever been to the core of the earth, observed it, measured it, etc.
I was shocked to hear a science professor open his class by offering up the possibility that his field of study could quite possibly be total bulls#. It's never happened since, of course, but it was refreshing at the time.
You defer "truth" to the specialists every day of your life. You just think that your specialists are better than other peoples'.
Which, at that point, starts to sound like... religion.
originally posted by: NthOther
We accept claims we can't verify for ourselves all the time. In fact, most of what we consider "indisputable fact", is actually just claims made by other people that are then repeated over and over before being "canonized" in textbooks. We are trusting the authorities on the matter to tell us the truth, because we have no way of knowing for ourselves.
Take geology, for instance. The only honest science instructor I had in college prefaced the introduction to his class by stating that all theories regarding the inner workings of our planet (if it really is a "planet"--again, something we've been told but have no way of independently verifying) were just that--theories. No one has ever been to the core of the earth, observed it, measured it, etc.
originally posted by: NthOther
I was shocked to hear a science professor open his class by offering up the possibility that his field of study could quite possibly be total bulls#. It's never happened since, of course, but it was refreshing at the time.
originally posted by: NthOther
You defer "truth" to the specialists every day of your life. You just think that your specialists are better than other peoples'.
originally posted by: NthOther
Which, at that point, starts to sound like... religion.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
You don't have to trust the scientists, you can observe and test every claim that the field of geology makes by yourself.
originally posted by: NthOther
originally posted by: Woodcarver
The big question is, why do you still hold a position which cannot be verified? We may never know the whole truth but we can abstain from accepting claims which cannot be verified.
We accept claims we can't verify for ourselves all the time. In fact, most of what we consider "indisputable fact", is actually just claims made by other people that are then repeated over and over before being "canonized" in textbooks. We are trusting the authorities on the matter to tell us the truth, because we have no way of knowing for ourselves.
Take geology, for instance. The only honest science instructor I had in college prefaced the introduction to his class by stating that all theories regarding the inner workings of our planet (if it really is a "planet"--again, something we've been told but have no way of independently verifying) were just that--theories. No one has ever been to the core of the earth, observed it, measured it, etc.
I was shocked to hear a science professor open his class by offering up the possibility that his field of study could quite possibly be total bulls#. It's never happened since, of course, but it was refreshing at the time.
You defer "truth" to the specialists every day of your life. You just think that your specialists are better than other peoples'.
Which, at that point, starts to sound like... religion.
if you can observe and know god, then why can't everyone see it? Out of all of the christian scientists in the world, why do we have such varying accounts of the properties of these gods? Is there only one god? Why do we have many dif versions?
originally posted by: NthOther
originally posted by: Woodcarver
You don't have to trust the scientists, you can observe and test every claim that the field of geology makes by yourself.
How do I test that Earth has a core of molten iron from my backyard? Divining rods?
I digress. The same could be said of faith, if you just flip the words around: You don't have to trust the priests and the pastors (ETA: and imams, sorry), you can observe and know God yourself. If you don't believe that's possible, I don't know what to tell you. Just as you're probably rolling your eyes and shaking your head at my geology example.
Running in circles at this point.
originally posted by: NthOther
originally posted by: Woodcarver
You don't have to trust the scientists, you can observe and test every claim that the field of geology makes by yourself.
How do I test that Earth has a core of molten iron from my backyard? Divining rods?
I digress. The same could be said of faith, if you just flip the words around: You don't have to trust the priests and the pastors (ETA: and imams, sorry), you can observe and know God yourself. If you don't believe that's possible, I don't know what to tell you. Just as you're probably rolling your eyes and shaking your head at my geology example.
Running in circles at this point.
originally posted by: NthOther
How do I test that Earth has a core of molten iron from my backyard? Divining rods?
originally posted by: NthOther
I digress. The same could be said of faith, if you just flip the words around: You don't have to trust the priests and the pastors, you can observe and know God yourself.
originally posted by: NthOther
If you don't believe that's possible, I don't know what to tell you.
originally posted by: Ghost147
The only reason we find science more appealing than religion is because there is actual evidence to back up it's claims, versus absolutely none at all.
originally posted by: NthOther
originally posted by: Woodcarver
You don't have to trust the scientists, you can observe and test every claim that the field of geology makes by yourself.
How do I test that Earth has a core of molten iron from my backyard? Divining rods?
I digress. The same could be said of faith, if you just flip the words around: You don't have to trust the priests and the pastors (ETA: and imams, sorry), you can observe and know God yourself. If you don't believe that's possible, I don't know what to tell you. Just as you're probably rolling your eyes and shaking your head at my geology example.
Running in circles at this point.
originally posted by: NthOther
You take what other people have told you as greater truth than what you experience for yourself?
No wonder people are so easily manipulated.
originally posted by: NthOther
You take what other people have told you as greater truth than what you experience for yourself?
No wonder people are so easily manipulated.
originally posted by: darkbake
Maybe there is something spiritual in this existence, however, that does not mean that all religious dogma has a heavenly origin.
originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
Say what you like, but you cannot tell me I have not experienced directly what I have.
Are you saying I should deny a very real experience?
originally posted by: ketsuko
That would be like me telling you that your own testing of your scientific hypotheses were all wrong.
Except I can prove that they are accurate by repeating tests and conjuring new experiments to cross confirm my original hypothesis. That is the difference between Subjective Observation and Objective Observation.
originally posted by: NthOther
Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith, portraying believers as simpletons believing what they do as mere products of their cultural environment.
As if what actually happens in life doesn't matter--it's all about what people have told you.
That is a ridiculous claim.