UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

a reply to: bigyin

I've got to say I agree with ewok....free ourselves from Brussels and then, if you still feel it necessary, try for independence again.

Personally I'd like to see more devolved power to all the regions of the UK within some sort of loose Federal organisation with a common defence policy and free trade etc.
I don't see why The Republic wouldn't be welcome to join in such an agreement.

We have a far better chance of achieving that free from the overpowering and dictatorial EU than we do whilst being a part of it.

I understand the dilemma you find yourself in but at least you are trying to make an informed decision unlike many in both camps who seem totally oblivious to opposing points of view.
There is a downside to both options - its about weighing the positives against the negatives and that all comes down to personal preferences.

originally posted by: Morrad
Cameron now saying ISIS leader, Baghdadi, will be happy if we leave the EU. Has this man no scruples?

This is not only unbelievably pathetic when it is the very opposite that is the truth. ISIS will find it so much harder to get Non UK based EU ISIS operatives (dodgy refugees who will obtain papers from EU countries) into the UK!!!
So it is obvious that ISIS would prefer the UK to Remain.

originally posted by: bigyin
So this referendum is an opportunity to bring about a second Scottish Independence vote.

However I would hate voting to remain in EU and discover later than I had swung the vote for remain. So I have a big decision to make. I may decide to vote out after all and not risk it. Will just have to find another way to get out of UK.

i would recon you would have more chance of Scottish independence from an

independent UK - than a UK embroiled in an undemocratic EU?

If they get their claws further into the UK .... they wont let any part of it go.

a reply to: eletheia

You could be right

Just when i was loosing faith in the youth of today i read this outstanding

article by Alice Denning a veterinary student.

Patriotism and Pride in the UK lie dormant in many or us, waiting for a
spark to rekindle it. This is what is being fundamentally threatened by the EU.
This is what we as a people want to protect

leave.eu...

An excellent article please read ....

If this is the caliber of our youth of today... surely we WILL GET OUT

a reply to: eletheia

Interesting article but i would say she is certainly not representative of that age range. The Tab (student paper) has polled readers and they are currently standing at 75:25 in favour of remaining in the EU. This mirrors (almost) other polls covering the 18-24 age range. So youngsters still want to stay, despite months of Brexiteering.

Conversley, older members of the UK (50 plus) are still overwhelmingly in favour of leaving, although support in this bracket seems to have dropped a bit (but is still around 2/3 in favour of Leave).

I find this hugely interesting and, frankly, a potential flashpoint for the future in that those that will be living with the consequences for generations want to stay. That is actually a major demographic split and could have far reaching consequences. Or the "Youth" could simply wait a few years and then vote to reapply for membership!

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia

Interesting article but i would say she is certainly not representative of that age range. The Tab (student paper) has polled readers and they are currently standing at 75:25 in favour of remaining in the EU. This mirrors (almost) other polls covering the 18-24 age range. So youngsters still want to stay, despite months of Brexiteering.

Conversley, older members of the UK (50 plus) are still overwhelmingly in favour of leaving, although support in this bracket seems to have dropped a bit (but is still around 2/3 in favour of Leave).

I find this hugely interesting and, frankly, a potential flashpoint for the future in that those that will be living with the consequences for generations want to stay. That is actually a major demographic split and could have far reaching consequences. Or the "Youth" could simply wait a few years and then vote to reapply for membership!

Not all young people are students and the vote among non student youth is likely to be the same but in favour of Leave so nullification may be the case. And the over 50 and mid to lower income vote takes us OUT.

Its interesting that the internet poll, Pollstation is now running at 82% Leave after over 49600 votes. I know that many see this poll as insignificant whilst I think it may reflect a view which is more common place than people think of so called official (limited and bias - fudged) polls suggest.

originally posted by: Flavian
Interesting article but i would say she is certainly not representative of that age range. The Tab (student paper) has polled readers and they are currently standing at 75:25 in favour of remaining in the EU. This mirrors (almost) other polls covering the 18-24 age range. So youngsters still want to stay, despite months of Brexiteering.

I agree with you entirely ... most of the young do the opposite of *their* older

generation simply to prove a point ... *That they are able to* not a lot of thought

because that takes effort and time. I have witnessed it in my own family, my

daughters two teens never gave her any credit for her achievements, now a bit

older and past the 'rebel' stage they actually come to her for advice and are proud

of what she has achieved in her life!!

Conversley, older members of the UK (50 plus) are still overwhelmingly in favour of leaving, although support in this bracket seems to have dropped a bit (but is still around 2/3 in favour of Leave).

Yes well they are the ones who were there before the EU and therefor

know there was LIFE before the EU. And they also remember the pride in nation

that she was referring to.

I find this hugely interesting and, frankly, a potential flashpoint for the future in that those that will be living with the consequences for generations want to stay. That is actually a major demographic split and could have far reaching consequences. Or the "Youth" could simply wait a few years and then vote to reapply for membership!

Once they have sampled a free UK and the fear factor has been dissipated i cant

see anyone wanting to live under that yolk again.

Anyway reapplying for membership is a misnomer surely?? We were

never supposed to be a member part of the EU, only a trading partner?

But i can see how things are being fudged ...........


We are having a referendum and 'hopefully' voting *OUT* of something .... that we

NEVER actually voted to be in?

Liam Fox says UK 'a sitting duck' if it stays in EU

Apparently there is a THE MISSING VETO


www.bbc.com...

a reply to: eletheia

Actually, support in that age range is extremely high for full EU integration (something that will make the older members of our nation crack the hankies out to mop the now heavily perspiring brows!).

The younger age brackets fully buy into the "better together" mantra, what with the global situation becoming ever more uncertain (in various fields).

As to the differences between age ranges, this was a hot topic in various staff rooms when teaching. Very basically, if one generation is out of control (drink, drugs, etc) their children (ie next generation) tend to have the opposite outlook. All the older teachers had seen this multiple times over their careers. In other words, we are all embarrassed by our parents!

Anyhow, regardless, my main issue with the referendum is that the UK media spouts outright lies regarding the EU and then continues to pump the same said lies to reinforce resentment against it. There are so many examples of this it isn't even worth listing and is one of the reasons why our media is not greatly admired around the world (despite what the hacks may try and claim).

It all goes back to an honest debate again but neither side of this argument sems capable of that...........

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

No, certainly not all young people are students but the polls so far indicate that student or not doesn't really impact this age range. The desire is there for integration regardless. In quite simple terms, they see the world as totally integrated anyway these days so moving away from that is viewed as, essentially, cutting your nose off to spite your face.

If that turns out to be true then maybe the UK is screwed!

It was interesting watching Mr Paxman in last nights BBc doc on the EU showing how totally undemocratic the EU is and emphasising that the EU commissioners who draft the EU laws are in fact in no way elected, just placed.

I find it hard to believe that if the young watched it then it would cause them to think twice about their vote.

The program showed the EU for what it is! A disaster in waiting!

Today's silly fantasy from the *Bremain* campaign

Scores of UK stars back remaining in the EU.

Almost 300 actors, musicians, writers and artists are backing calls for the UK to stay in the
EU.The 'letter' organised by the *Britain stronger in the EU campaign* says ....

"Britain
is not just stronger in Europe, it is more imaginative and more creative, and our
global creative success would be severely weakened by walking away.

now the EU is claiming credit for peoples personal talents .... you couldn't make it up!

The letter goes on to say "leaving Europe would be a leap in the unknown

that phrase AGAIN!!!

for millions of people across the UK who work in the
creative industries.

But 'House of cards' author, Lord Dobbs said "British success in the industry was
certainly not because of the EU" Our creative industries are booming
because of the talent that is in Britain's DNA. We are world leaders in so many
creative areas from theatre to literature, video games, feature films, fashion, music
and more. British artists lead the way, and are celebrated around the globe.
Success is created by dedication, hard work and extraordinary creative abilities of
the artist and not because of the EU


Reading the above made me wonder why ANY young/newly aspiring artiste's would
aspire to make it in America and NOT the all important Europe

originally posted by: eletheia

Today's silly fantasy from the *Bremain* campaign

Scores of UK stars back remaining in the EU.

Almost 300 actors, musicians, writers and artists are backing calls for the UK to stay in the
EU.The 'letter' organised by the *Britain stronger in the EU campaign* says ....

"Britain
is not just stronger in Europe, it is more imaginative and more creative, and our
global creative success would be severely weakened by walking away.

now the EU is claiming credit for peoples personal talents .... you couldn't make it up!

The letter goes on to say "leaving Europe would be a leap in the unknown

that phrase AGAIN!!!

for millions of people across the UK who work in the
creative industries.

But 'House of cards' author, Lord Dobbs said "British success in the industry was
certainly not because of the EU" Our creative industries are booming
because of the talent that is in Britain's DNA. We are world leaders in so many
creative areas from theatre to literature, video games, feature films, fashion, music
and more. British artists lead the way, and are celebrated around the globe.
Success is created by dedication, hard work and extraordinary creative abilities of
the artist and not because of the EU


Reading the above made me wonder why ANY young/newly aspiring artiste's would
aspire to make it in America and NOT the all important Europe

This is just a very typical example of how the clique not only sit at the same dinner tables but also sh.t in the same pots. I wonder how many less known celebs out of work actors or artists will be voting! I guess we know the answer to that one!

Now Osbourne says that house prices will fall by up to 18% if we leave the EU which is just more wild speculation. He also says that mortgage interest rates will rise too.

What next from the Remain campaign. Don't tell me the earth will turn square if we Leave the EU.

How can people vote for a campaign based on wild crystal ball speculation. Mind boggles! But sheep don't perceive too much!

I see on the news today the *IN* campaign headed by George Osborne are

reiterating doom and gloom in the economy IF the UK leaves the EU .........


1st LIE ....

25 years ago my daughter was at the point of signing for the purchase of the house

(she is today on the point of owning) On that day 25 years ago she phoned me in a

panic- as when she started the process of buying the house the interest rate was in

the region of 6%/8% and and that morning it was announced that it was going up

to15%.

The UK was in the EU then it didn't have any influence then? our economy
fluctuates as do all economies, the EU didn't keep the UK afloat!!??
The Greeks are economically bust - they are in the EU .... What is the EU doing
for them? but squeezing the life out of them, FORCING unmanageble austerity
onto them!!


2nd LIE.....

That if we leave the EU house prices will plummet!!

Around 10/15 years ago house prices did plummet while i was selling my late

mothers home we were in the EU then .... the EU never kept the UK housing

market bouyant!! as i remember it Gordon Brown was calling it *the results of a

global economy*

The UK was in the EU then? so why weren't they taking care of our housing
market then? Being in the EU doesn't make ANY difference to our housing
market or economy

Has anyone else noticed? There seems to be a complete and deliberate

blackout of any *European news* on BBC, ITV, and Sky they have NOT been

reporting on what is going on in Europe.


The UK news channels coverage of what IS really going on in Europe

is very thin on the ground at the moment... it looks like a *lock down* on news

coming out of France, Germany, Norway and Sweden along with the immigrant

crossings which are still going on.


Those who are undecided would do well to watch European news channels ...

RT news,Al Jazeera, they are eye openers, and reveal how much the EU is

crumbling and struggling to survive... *sinking ships* comes to mind


News coverage of French riots - mass protests in Germany - immigration

problems and assaults in Norway and Sweden have been non existent on

British news channels which is strange as they are happening ....


Couldn't possibly be a conspiracy of silence - a blackout of news on behalf of

the *IN* campaign? ..... OR COULD IT



STOP PRESS Just watching (while posting) an Italian far right protest march

against EU Policies on RT news!!!

originally posted by: bigyin
a reply to: crazyewok

The majority of free thinking people in Scotland want independence and I think they will have it one day.

And likewise, in the case the UK would vote to leave the EU, there will very likely be a petition for an independent Greater London. As to whether it will succeed I'm less certain.

a reply to: eletheia

the interest rate was in the region of 6%/8% and and that morning it was announced that it was going up to15%.

I think I remember that day. Did it rise very briefly to 70%? The government did it as it was prior to the Bank of England being in charge of interest rates.

I agree with both lies you point out.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Now Osbourne says that house prices will fall by up to 18% if we leave the EU

GOOD!

More the better!

Maybe I can move out of my shoe box then!