Serious Question For Those Of Religous Faith

a reply to: Kitana

Seriously, I don't mean to be a jerk. Don't assume that I don't know what happened during the Crusades. I said before killing is wrong and I don't care who does it.

Apparently YOU don't know what happened, or are forgetting, but the Crusades were everything I stated previously. Self defense is not a defense when YOU'RE THE AGGRESSORS.

So just don't claim that it was. It was an invasion, for monetary purposes.

a reply to: Rasalghul

yeah I can tell you learned it well

originally posted by: DaphneApollo

This picture sums it up for me ^

If you need a book to tell you every thing you need to do, well, I don't know. Life has many turns.

I look at end times eschatology, to prove god, the rest of it, well, it's pretty rough.

The problem with your assertion is that we live in a world that has been shaped by Christianity very drastically. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you live in the west. Our culture's morals have been shaped by Christianity. People beforehand, well, not so much with all the socially acceptable pedophilia and child sacrifice, etc.
So yes. These days you don't need religion to be a "good person." But one would be naive to think they don't owe a thanks to Christianity for its contribution in building that world.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
This question is directed more towards whoever subscribe to the Abrahamic religions, all are welcome to reply regardless of ye faith. Or lack thereof.

If the religious deity you worshiped did NOT reward their follower's with eternal life,an afterlife and/or a spiritual existence beyond this life or any rewards at all for the good deeds you did during your lifetime( e.g works of Charity, works of Altruism and works of Humility)would you still do genuine good deeds for your fellow humans in the name of your deity(s)?

I ask this because I find much of the reason Christian,Jews and Muslims of all kinds worship their deities is for spiritual guidance in this life but also for the immaterial rewards they gain once their dead. I find this an extremely selfish outlook on religious piety in general and it's analogous to children whom only behave better around Christmas time so they can end up on Santa's "good" list. Reaping the material rewards for themselves once Christmas arrives.
The good works they do are all part of an act to fulfill the satisfaction of a deity(s).

However this doesn't mean that all religious followers good deeds are disingenuous, they're are many Samaritans and missionaries whom go out of their way to help the less fortunate because they genuinely do care. But if the positive reinforcement of an afterlife was nonexistent, would they still follow through on doing those good works?

My hope is anyone reading this can quell my assertions on the selfishness of religious devotion to a deity(s).

Issue is... I'm not rewarded with eternal life for my actions. Neither I nor anyone else can earn salvation by our own works. Faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord, Savior, and God and accepting his free gift of salvation is what permits us eternal life.
That faith leads to the Holy Spirit transforming our hearts. We do not do good works to be saved... We do good works BECAUSE we are saved.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Dear Nate, I read your question in the OP, and felt compelled to respond. I did not take time to read any answer, as none of them would change my response to the question.

And it is a valid question.

For me personally, I would serve God, whether or whether not I live again. If this life is all there is, then I would dedicate my life to Jehovah.

He created all things, and because of such he deserves honor and reverence. It does not matter who I am, or what I receive in return. I know that already. In fact, I am a sinner, just as you are, and everyone else is. And all we deserve is death. Not one person can earn the right to life.

And if you don't believe in God, then you already know your life is temporary and you will soon cease to exist forever. So even if you don't believe sin is the cause of death you still know you will die.

What if you knew that God made a way to redeem us from sin and death? That it would be possible to live forever? What type of God is that? Certainly one that is worthy of love.

And he forces no one to make a choice. Does he? You believe one way, another believes another way, etc. So it is obvious he forces no one.

True religious fanatics can force people to try and change or murder them. And even atheistic regimes can try and force you to not believe a certain way or murder you. But God is not like that, now, is he?


My choice to serve God is not dependent upon a reward. But I also know, that God in his love has chosen to give life to those who exercise faith in his son's ransom. Who love others, who refuse to hate. Those who do not take part in politics. Those who do not pick up arms to fight. He will reward those people.

You see the meek ones are the ones who will live forever on the earth. And when the wicked one is gone, those who love good and hate bad will see long days.

For the days of the evil one, they are fleeting, and they will have no success. Will you give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the righteous, good, the humble and meek, they will continue on into eternity.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Idiot. Stop talking trash, I don't come on here to deal with people like you who are full of hate while pretending to be a Christian.

a reply to: Rasalghul

Why should we accept anything you say as true when you have multiple accounts on ATS many of the which are now banned.

This is the second T&C violation in as many posts.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Your a lunatic cyber stalking someone, obviously you have issues with many people but leave me out of it. Stop making false accusations because I know I'm not the person you're really cyber stalking.

From now on you don't exist to me

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Wannabe christian cyber stalker is what you are. Your not a Christian.

a reply to: Rasalghul

exactly what you called me when you were elyon69 a little over a week ago.

a reply to: Achilles92x

" But one would be naive to think they don't owe a thanks to Christianity for its contribution in building that world

You're right. They contributed a lot. The Spanish Conquistadors, looks like these people were enlightened to Christianity, ahh, they could have shown far more Empathy huh?





L O L

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

If the religious deity you worshiped did NOT reward their follower's with eternal life,an afterlife and/or a spiritual existence beyond this life or any rewards at all for the good deeds you did during your lifetime( e.g works of Charity, works of Altruism and works of Humility)would you still do genuine good deeds for your fellow humans in the name of your deity(s)?

I don't think you have correctly understood the message of Christ friend. The Bible doesn't teach that we should do good to receive some kind of reward. We come as we are to the cross. Christ redeems what Adam in accordance with Leviticus 25. If their was no deity of any kind I don't see any objective standard by which to call something good or evil. I would say their would only be actions that I would prefer others participate in rather than others. For example, I would simply prefer people abstain from rape I don't think I could call it evil if humans didn't posses some type of intrinsic value.


Salvation is something given freely out of love from the Lord to us. Good deeds are supposed to be done because that is the person you are or are becoming rather. This is the good word brother. Those who have ears let them hear.

originally posted by: Achilles92x

The problem with your assertion is that we live in a world that has been shaped by Christianity very drastically. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you live in the west. Our culture's morals have been shaped by Christianity. People beforehand, well, not so much with all the socially acceptable pedophilia and child sacrifice, etc.
So yes. These days you don't need religion to be a "good person." But one would be naive to think they don't owe a thanks to Christianity for its contribution in building that world.

I look at how other cultures developed without Christianity. Cultures like Asia or Africa or pre-Columbian America and I think to myself how much better the world would have been without Christianity. We owe SOOO much strife to that religion forcibly pushing itself on every culture it met whether they wanted it or not.

ETA: The Native Americans and the Pagans before them were some of the coolest people and cultures in history and Christianity ruined that by condemning and destroying their cultures. All in the name of "spreading Jesus".

a reply to: Krazysh0t
some of those African and pre-Columbian cultures were cannibalistic.

Does that seem right to you?

Especially when we look at God's word and he forbids the eating of human flesh to Israel.

How much more for any man to eat it.

Remember that God said that man was made in the image of God.

The eating of human flesh is pretty sick especially when you say that those culture were ok compared to Christian culture. I beg to differ. They were not ok or better. I have never heard of any Christian eating any human flesh. Except for the Roman Catholic doctrine of Substantiation, that the wafer in their churches was the actual blood and flesh of Jesus Christ. Which it wasn't

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Not all of those cultures were cannibalistic. In fact, most weren't. Plus the development of agriculture makes it so that cannibalism isn't needed. So this is a complete red herring.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You can't argue with a crazy man, sometimes Chester, pearls and what not, you know
Ask Billy's Joel


Insert Billy's Joel song , moving out

a reply to: Raggedyman

So according to you and Chester, if not for Christianity, cannibalism would be running rampant throughout the modern world. I happen to find that premise to be rather ridiculous.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

what do you think the average person in the world is being prepared for with all the vampire, wolfmen and zombie programs out there?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Don't be ridiculous. I won't entertain the silly notion that horror media is encouraging cannibalism. That is almost as absurd as overly judgmental Christians calling rock and roll, "the devil's music". You need a better argument.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

beings eating men's flesh, biting them and drinking there blood are all cannibalism.

And the MSM is conditioning people for this. We have seen this conditioning working in the naked biting cannibalistic attacks across the US and in other nations as well.

Cannibalism is the ultimate spit in the face of God, by eating that which is made in and image liken unto God.