Serious Question For Those Of Religous Faith

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Tolerance and peace can, but usually don't, exist in religions. Not from my experience.

a reply to: Rasalghul

Can I say something? There are a lot of people who call themselves Christian only because their parents were, but they don't much attend church or don't much believe in the bible.

Another group of Christians attend church, but they listen to false teachers, people who desire only a paycheck and themselves don't have much understanding of the bible and/or only teach what the people want to hear. I attend a church where we do not pay our pastor. He works a job, and receives no money for pastoring the church, the largest majority of churches are not like this, the largest majority go to seminary and decide to become a pastor, not because they felt called by God to preach, but because the pay is good.

Money is one area where you can decide whether or not someone is preaching for God, or preaching out of a book they don't understand nor believe in.

Peter writes, "Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers-not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve" (1 Pet. 5:2).

Also:

Acts 8:18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 8: 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

And:

Paul says, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" (2 Tim. 4:3-4).

Now, while not all preachers who do accept some pay are bad, I would say in large part this holds true that most who preach for money don't believe in the faith and introduce falsehood because they preach to please people and not to please God. To second Paul, we live in this time which Paul speaks of. There are good teachers, but they are few, so in turn, there are few Christians following the faith in the truth of Jesus Christ.

So, when you look at the majority, all you will see is hypocrisy and falsehoods. It is only the minority who follow the truth of the Christian faith. I agree with you in that, when you see majority of Christians you cannot find Jesus there, either in action or in deed.

a reply to: Kitana
Sure, that is all true. Greed is prevalent in Christianity. There are MANY kinds of christians who are true believers, but the minority speaks the most. They are the paid to maintain obedience to doctrine staff.

The most agreeable (to me) are the independent non church attending un-indoctrinated (unless they want to be) Christians who don't believe for the benefits of paradise and aren't afraid to study non canonical texts. MY OPINION.

a reply to: Rasalghul

Which we are all entitled to.

And additional quote:

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping" (2 Peter 2:1-3).

It is to each of us to decide what we are allowing ourselves to believe is true or not. A journey all must have, answering the question, what is the truth? I wish you well, in all sincerity.

a reply to: Kitana

My rejection of christianity is due to the cruel god of the OT. I don't care who does it, killing is wrong. ESPECIALLY when you're god. He gets no recognition from me.

And the new testament is just unreliable at best. I have little faith in its accuracy, and the absence of independent evidence to back up its claims sounds alarms in my head.

I don't want my children worshipping a cruel fabricated god. I am more comfortable letting them believe in a kind God, who doesn't exist in any book.

My other reasons are old, but valid. The crusades the inquisition, witch trials. Murder and war in the name of god. That's so terrible, and Christianity is responsible for most of those things. I will keep my distance from that, I don't care how long ago it happened.

a reply to: Rasalghul

And the christians willingly accept the term gentile, as if 2 kinds of people exist. Jews, a minuscule fraction of the world population, and everybody else.

The bottom line in western traditional christian ethos. They hammered us as kids in sunday school with the jews and gentiles. What bigotry, what racism.

'Jesus was a jew' and his people (gods people) are jews, and we're not. But if you try real hard maybe you could at best be a gentile, or jew like.

Thats why US policy is so far off the rails in the ME. Defend the Holy Land.

The dichotomy presents itself when christians also forget that the Jews handed Christ over to the Romans to be executed and nowadays don't consider him to be a Messiah.

They must be laughing their asses off how they control the western mind.

a reply to: Rasalghul

The "Cruel" God of the Old Testament:

www.gotquestions.org...

The Crusades:

The Crusades as an epoch-spanning phenomenon aren’t in and of themselves a great stain on Christian history: They’re a phenomenon in Christian history that includes many stains and sins and great crimes, but also involves many admirable figures and heroic moments, many great tragedies, and many individuals and incidents that simply resist any kind of manichaean reading. Contemporary Christians should reject and disavow the great crimes that some Crusaders committed as they should reject and disavow the un-Christian hatreds that motivated them. But we are under no obligation to reject and disavow the entire multi-century struggle with an armed and equally-militant foe as merely the manifestation of some irrational religious “phobia,”


But the first Crusade was not summoned, as Saletan implies, in a world where the Islamic empires and Christian Europe had been enjoying a comfortable four-hundred year peace after the original fall of Jerusalem to Muslim armies. Instead the actual context included 1) the gradual rolling back of prior Muslim conquests in Spain and Southern Italy (Saracen raiders had threatened Rome in the 10th century, and the Emirate of Sicily only fell to the Normans five years before Pope Urban II called the First Crusade), 2) the disastrous Byzantine defeat at Manzikert in 1071, at the hands of the Seljuk Turks, which ended with the emperor in chains and prompted Constantinople to call for military assistance from the West, and 3) the Seljuk occupation of Palestine (displacing the Fatimid Caliphate), which visited persecution and pillage on the Holy Land’s remaining Christians and made pilgrimage much more difficult than it had been under some (though not all) of the Fatimid rulers.

douthat.blogs.nytimes.com...

I do believe in the right of self defense. I think all human beings have that right.

In the end, we also have to look at those false teachers aforementioned. When you follow them, you run into things like the witch hunts, you run into all manner of false teachings which benefits only the teacher and not the people.

I can tell you, the God I follow tells me to have kindness toward all, but allows me to defend me and mine if necessary, but only in rare instances as even defending yourself from people trying to kill you for your faith is frowned upon. The truest Christian wont fight to the death over that, but usually allow themselves to be killed - although it must be stated that usually only happens when Christians are the clear minority. When they are a majority, governments protect them and the God of the bible does not disavow governments from their role of protecting the nations from invasion of barbaric and murderous peoples.

a reply to: Kitana

I know all about the Crusades, the inquisition, and the cruel "god" of the Jews in the OT but thank you.
Killing is wrong. Killing in the name of "god" is reprehensible. "god" ordering slaughter of whole people's is the worst. God is better than that, he gave us life. WE do the killing and commit acts of evil. Maybe that's why he doesn't want to be around us.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Tolerance and peace can, but usually don't, exist in religions. Not from my experience.

Then the issue is mankind, not faith. We are only geniuses relative to our own deepest level of ignorance.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
I didn't say that, if I did I don't remember. But you don't believe that other religions can bring people peace? There are many who could prove your disbelieving something true, peace is not solely a christian product.

The image of peace is as simple as an illusion. I'm talking about internal peace. My OPINION is that only Christ can bring internal peace, but claims of internal peace can neither be confirmed or denied. Only God knows the heart of man.

Poa reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That is definitely an opinion. I don't doubt people have found inner peace from other beliefs than christianity j.

You say it can't be verified (inner peace). I disagree, most people will tell you whether or not they have inner peace honestly. Some might lie, but I would take someone at their word on the matter. Scientific verification isn't needed.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Rasalghul

And the christians willingly accept the term gentile, as if 2 kinds of people exist. Jews, a minuscule fraction of the world population, and everybody else.

They must be laughing their asses off how they control the western mind.

And they sure are laughing, and amassing fortunes off us with Hollywood, that town makes them so wealthy it's amazing. Banking too.

a reply to: Kitana

· I really hope you're not implying the Catholic Europeans marched from town to town plundering and killing, with pope given immunity from sins for any act committed in this endeavor to steal Jerusalem, SELF DEFENSE. Because they were THE INVADERS, the aggressors.

You have an insane idea of what self defense is.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I think that your question is pointless... At the end of the day there is no such thing as a truly altruistic act. Every decision we make is at it's heart self serving.

a reply to: Rasalghul

I suppose you would have to have a grasp on history to understand. I did link you to the article, however. You might choose to read it to begin with. Then look into the history of Muslim conquests.

a reply to: Rasalghul

deceivers are very obvious

originally posted by: Rasalghul
Poa reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That is definitely an opinion. I don't doubt people have found inner peace from other beliefs than christianity j.

You say it can't be verified (inner peace). I disagree, most people will tell you whether or not they have inner peace honestly. Some might lie, but I would take someone at their word on the matter. Scientific verification isn't needed.

The point is that even your opinion is still an opinion.

a reply to: Kitana

Slow down with the insults sister. The crusades were an invasion of foreign land for financial gain.

I'd go further into it but a person with a faulty understanding of history (you) does not warrant my time. Europe and it's monarchies nor the pope had any legitimate claim to Jerusalem.

Not to mention they slaughtered Jerusalem, men, women, and children when they got there.

a reply to: Kitana

It's actually depressing you think this is excusable behavior for the RCC. History is what I do. I've read more than enough on the Crusades to know that it was caused by a destitute Europe, that Jerusalem was a damn eutopia at the time before they were slaughtered by the Europeans.

Don't be a fool. You know right from wrong. Does that sound right to you?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

SOME deceivers are obvious. Some have learned how not to be obvious. It is not so cut and dry.