After Gender change what new comes in Medicine? Trans Specie Surgery or Hormonal treatment?

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

We have seen along all the past year the tremendous media campaign in support of who after so many years of not producing
a real great achievement in his life, suddenly became a celebrity everywhere:

Bruce Jenner a Gold Olympic medal Athlete in Montreal 1976 that suddenly transformed to Mrs Katrine Jenner, a woman that legally is still
a baby, since her life is counted in months not in years.

Well, now we have a case of a woman that after deep personal reflection has found that she is actually a cat that is living in the body
of a human body.

I am wondering if there is no Physician that wants to receive the Nobel Prize and have the necessary charity act to develop a treatment
to allow this confused 20 year Norway girl to achieve her true self? to be perhaps the first Trans specie person of History?

www.msn.com...

Some Mandatory questions to ask here that comes to my mind are:

Is this case defying the point of view of the Transgender community and all the medical industry that is profiting of the so costly change of gender treatments?

Is this showing to us that medicine opened a Pandora Box to accept to change Gender instead to apply psychiatric therapies to fix the condition?

Is this case giving the reason to deffenders of the traditional moral that you claim you can't heal the mind by damaging the body, supported by Religious organizations?

Is modern medicine open to accept this new challenge or to the contrary this will promote a professional debate , to restore an ethical approach to many things that right now are done in Hospitals around the world just for marketing to respond the trends of demand?

Is really ethical to offer medical treatments to transform the body beyond what it is naturally granted by birth in order to try to fix problems that exist in the mind?


The thread is of course open to the free discussion of the topic provided that the replies remain in the boundaries of what is the rules of decorum and mutual respect.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Would the work be performed by a veterinarian?

a reply to: eluryh22

Ha Ha, mmm, well I believe there are here some ethical considerations, or perhaps legal ones, I am pretty sure that the law must be changed to allow that possible in many States.

However, to be fair if a veterinarian decides to go head on it He may be the first professional of Trans specie treatment in to be recipient of the Nobel of Medicine, but not the first at all in to have won it, Dr Dr. Peter C. Doherty has done it for his research in immunology.

Please Read:
www.avma.org...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

oh great... another 'slippery slope' argument

originally posted by: The angel of light
Well, now we have a case of a woman that after deep personal reflection has found that she is actually a cat that is living in the body of a human body.

This isn't a new thing. Other Kin have been around for a long time now, it's just a matter of really recognizing what the condition is.

originally posted by: The angel of light
I am wondering if there is no Physician that wants to receive the Nobel Prize and have the necessary charity act to develop a treatment
to allow this confused 20 year Norway girl to achieve her true self? to be perhaps the first Trans specie person of History?

There have already been procedures like this. Here

Of course, there's no possible way a human can physically become another species, but rather, simply just have minor features that that species has.

My question to you is, why does this action, that has no effect on you what-so-ever, bother you so much?

a reply to: The angel of light

Perhaps hippocampus transplants?

a reply to: The angel of light

You should probably start by asking if this girl even WANTS the surgery you are talking about. I see what you are doing here, but you are neglecting the fact that the demand doesn't exist. If no one is asking to have trans-species surgeries then they won't happen. Bringing up isolated incidents like this doesn't presuppose that they WANT to be surgically changed.

PS: If this were a serious thread about where medical procedures were taking us into the 21st century and not just a thinly veiled attempt to make transgenderism seem weird by slippery slope comparing it to trans-species surgery, we'd be talking about biotechnology and the advances made in that field. Because THAT is the REAL answer to the OP's question about where medical procedures are headed.

This topic has already been discussed here: Born in the wrong species

Is this case defying the point of view of the Transgender community and all the medical industry that is profiting of the so costly change of gender treatments?

Is this showing to us that medicine opened a Pandora Box to accept to change Gender instead to apply psychiatric therapies to fix the condition?

I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with the "transgender community". Secondly, there are no "psychiatric therapies" that have ever been found to be effective treating severe cases of gender dysphoria.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

What makes you think that the Norwegian girl is not going to discover and in her 'right' wants to share the
advantages and pleasures that another 'isolated case' here in America has already gotten through surgery methods?

Another member that replied before you (Ghost147) has already brought this interesting case to this discussion:
Stalking Cat (born Dennis Avner; August 27, 1958 - November 5, 2012)

Pls read: en.wikipedia.org...

Avner was born in Flint, Michigan. His parents were of Lakota and Wyandot heritage. He had a brother named Dave. The family lived in Suttons Bay, Michigan. As an adult, Stalking Cat related in an interview that the feelings of being connected to a totem were present, and how one of his earliest childhood memories was of wondering where his tail was. Around age 10, he was given the name Stalking Cat by Grey Cloud, the medicine man of his tribe.

As an adult, he joined the Navy as a sonar technician. He left his Navy post around 1981. He then began working as a computer programmer and technician in San Diego, California.

In the early 1980s, Stalking Cat began the modifications to his face.
.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: Freija
This topic has already been discussed here: Born in the wrong species

Is this case defying the point of view of the Transgender community and all the medical industry that is profiting of the so costly change of gender treatments?

Is this showing to us that medicine opened a Pandora Box to accept to change Gender instead to apply psychiatric therapies to fix the condition?

I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with the "transgender community". Secondly, there are no "psychiatric therapies" that have ever been found to be effective treating severe cases of gender dysphoria.

I'm with you.

The brain does a lot of things - - - but, this has nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

If you want to talk about people who think they are animals, fine - - - but, why bring transgender into it?

Pretend time is fun.

a reply to: The angel of light

What makes you think this is the precipice of a major shift in medical procedures and not just a bunch of isolated incidents? Come get me when you want to take this topic seriously and REALLY talk about future medical trends NOT based on silly anecdotes and slippery slope fallacies. I can give you plenty information about that, but this. This is just nonsense.

a reply to: Freija
Dear Freija,

That is precisely what has not be discussed on that other thread you are mentioning, of course there are communication vessels in between the two conditions.

Patients in both conditions claim that there is a mismatch in between what the body shows, not only its physical appearance but even its internal physiology and what the mind thinks about it.

Now, compare the following two statements, from the philosophical and mathematical point of view:

( please read about Logical semantics and syntax if you are still doubtful)

Gender is not naturally an option, sexual preference perhaps but definitively the male or female characteristics are granted since birth by the force that spurs life.

Specie is not naturally an option, identification perhaps but definitively human or a feline characteristics are granted since birth by the force that spurs life.

Pls check:

www.jstor.org...

encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...

Do you see the similarity in between the two statements? They obey exactly the same logic, and I am not qualifying at all ethical considerations only what a sane reasoning can reveal when the two propositions are analyzed.

That is a good try to deviate from the opening question.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

You know, your post got me thinking. I know everyone is laughing at this kid, and well, she may very well have some psychological issues but...

I can't help but wonder if this cultural rejection of biological roles is not a sign of an implicit awareness that we stand as a species on the cusp of the potential to abandon much of our biology, our very bodies and all of the hormonal imperatives and drivers as well as the social roles that go with that.

Transhumanism, and eventually even posthumanism is just over the generational horizon. Perhaps we are transitioning into preparing for that. This is awkward and will now doubt be messy and even dangerous for many people but maybe it's necessary in the long run. Will "body" even matter at all in a few generations? Just a thought...

a reply to: The angel of light

This was part of an ancient Native American tradition, and clearly has nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

In the early 1980s, Stalking Cat began the modifications to his face. In interviews, he stated that he chose to alter his physical appearance in accordance with an ancient Wyandot tradition, where people alter their bodies to resemble their totems.

en.wikipedia.org...

Nice try, but no cigar.

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: Krazysh0t

What makes you think that the Norwegian girl is not going to discover and in her 'right' wants to share the
advantages and pleasures that another 'isolated case' here in America has already gotten through surgery methods?

Another member that replied before you (Ghost147) has already brought this interesting case to this discussion:
Stalking Cat (born Dennis Avner; August 27, 1958 - November 5, 2012)

Pls read: en.wikipedia.org...

Avner was born in Flint, Michigan. His parents were of Lakota and Wyandot heritage. He had a brother named Dave. The family lived in Suttons Bay, Michigan. As an adult, Stalking Cat related in an interview that the feelings of being connected to a totem were present, and how one of his earliest childhood memories was of wondering where his tail was. Around age 10, he was given the name Stalking Cat by Grey Cloud, the medicine man of his tribe.

As an adult, he joined the Navy as a sonar technician. He left his Navy post around 1981. He then began working as a computer programmer and technician in San Diego, California.

In the early 1980s, Stalking Cat began the modifications to his face.
.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

Flint Michigan you say...must be something in the water.

originally posted by: redhorse
a reply to: The angel of light
I can't help but wonder if this cultural rejection of biological roles is not a sign of an implicit awareness that we stand as a species on the cusp of the potential to abandon much of our biology, our very bodies and all of the hormonal imperatives and drivers as well as the social roles that go with that.

No. It has nothing to do with that at all

We have complex brains, and it only stands to reason that that complexity can get wired in different ways from time to time.

There is no underlying sociological reason for transgendered people, Other Kin, or anything else. It's just basic biology. Reproduction with variation.

So hurry up already with the human centipede.

a reply to: The angel of light

How would someone who believes they are a cat communicate that fact? Cats can't talk, they meow and purr. She believes she is a talking cat. There is the delusion.

I once again stand amazed at all the people who will happily allow a person to reject the biological reality of their bodies when it comes to their biological gender, but will backpedal and scoff when it comes to allowing a person to reject the reality of their biological bodies when it comes to their biological species.

Seems to me that gender and species are equally genetically hard-coded, and if we can allow that someone's brain can make them reject one, then we can argue their brain can make them reject the other. And if one is impossible, then so should the other be.