After Gender change what new comes in Medicine? Trans Specie Surgery or Hormonal treatment?

DNA editing that produces body modifications such as exoskeletons, wings, horns, striped or spotted fur, and pretty much anything else you can imagine. Gradual loss of species coherence and more people being unable to successfully breed with other humans.

"It's a madhouse! A MADHOUSE!"

originally posted by: Blue Shift
. . . Gradual loss of species coherence and more people being unable to successfully breed with other humans.

We should begin IMMEDIATELY.

originally posted by: The angel of light
I only can answer that with the same upside down logic that there is people that can't host a baby inside for nine months, can't give birth to a child naturally, can't feed a baby with the milk of her chest, but they believe to be women, like for instance Mr. Bruce Jenner.

Now, with all respect, if Mr. Jenner or any other transgender decides to feel insulted by this comment why we don't ask the millions of natural women what they feel when somebody comes and say to them that an artificial woman can perform their role in life entirely equally?

How reductionist of you. I'm sure all the women in the world that can't or don't reproduce really appreciate you thinking they aren't "real" women. Let's do ask those "millions of natural women" if they're insulted about being reduced to a uterus with legs. As a woman, I also don't much care for a man defining what it means to be a woman because honestly, that isn't up to you or your criteria.

Your understanding of transgender and transsexual people is simplistic, moralistic, cissexist and your comments demonstrate how little you actually know of factual and scientific information and the lives and experiences of these groups. That's okay but before you post an obviously transantogonistic thread and speak of "insane perspectives" maybe do some reading somewhere other than conservative religious op-ed pieces.

These wonderfully "logical" points you bring up are just weak and so completely unoriginal to the point of becoming memes to the trans* communities and allies and advocates such as myself. This is a difficult thing to understand and your lack of awareness, information and compassion is evidenced in your posts.

How in the world medicine can develop treatments that are killing fundamental organs of the body of a young person and believe it is ethically correct?

Oh jeez! Hail the mighty gonad. Better to "kill" a few organs than the whole person don't you think? As many parents of transgender children say, "they'd rather have a happy daughter than bury a dead son" or vice versa. Where does your ethical correctness or your sense of god given morality fit into that? On who's authority do you get to judge what other people do or how does it even affect you?

"Madness"?

a reply to: ketsuko

The fact that while we allow them to reject their reality and substitute their own, it isn't enough. Instead all of us must be forced to reject reality to suit them.

Peter Tatchell, a gay human rights campaigner in the UK, has changed sides in the gay cake saga. He now advocates anti-discrimination against individuals, not ideas.

Well some of them are not waiting for a noble prize to live their fantasy:

Lizard man

Some kind of feline face swell

oh boy...

a reply to: The angel of light

I only can answer that with the same upside down logic that there is people that can't host a baby inside for nine months, can't give birth to a child naturally, can't feed a baby with the milk of her chest, but they believe to be women, like for instance Mr. Bruce Jenner.

is she asking for feline surgery or cat hormones?

Seriously, would you consider a woman, dressed as a cat and laid on a roof at night, staring at you as you walked by, normal?

Of course if she wants to tell everyone she is a cat that is her prerogative.

originally posted by: The angel of light
The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

We have seen along all the past year the tremendous media campaign in support of who after so many years of not producing
a real great achievement in his life, suddenly became a celebrity everywhere:

Bruce Jenner a Gold Olympic medal Athlete in Montreal 1976 that suddenly transformed to Mrs Katrine Jenner, a woman that legally is still
a baby, since her life is counted in months not in years.

Well, now we have a case of a woman that after deep personal reflection has found that she is actually a cat that is living in the body
of a human body.

I am wondering if there is no Physician that wants to receive the Nobel Prize and have the necessary charity act to develop a treatment
to allow this confused 20 year Norway girl to achieve her true self? to be perhaps the first Trans specie person of History?

www.msn.com...

Some Mandatory questions to ask here that comes to my mind are:

Is this case defying the point of view of the Transgender community and all the medical industry that is profiting of the so costly change of gender treatments?

Is this showing to us that medicine opened a Pandora Box to accept to change Gender instead to apply psychiatric therapies to fix the condition?

Is this case giving the reason to deffenders of the traditional moral that you claim you can't heal the mind by damaging the body, supported by Religious organizations?

Is modern medicine open to accept this new challenge or to the contrary this will promote a professional debate , to restore an ethical approach to many things that right now are done in Hospitals around the world just for marketing to respond the trends of demand?

Is really ethical to offer medical treatments to transform the body beyond what it is naturally granted by birth in order to try to fix problems that exist in the mind?


The thread is of course open to the free discussion of the topic provided that the replies remain in the boundaries of what is the rules of decorum and mutual respect.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

Next up will be headtransplants, in your case i would make sure that the donor was not ateist

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: ketsuko

The fact that while we allow them to reject their reality and substitute their own, it isn't enough. Instead all of us must be forced to reject reality to suit them.

Peter Tatchell, a gay human rights campaigner in the UK, has changed sides in the gay cake saga. He now advocates anti-discrimination against individuals, not ideas.

That is the UK. In the USA - - it is not discriminatory to decline the wording or special decorations for a cake.

It is discriminatory to refuse to bake a cake, using standard design/decoration that has been used/offered to heterosexual couples.

I am very pro equality. No one I know supports a baker having to write something or special decorations they do not agree with.

Just sayin'

a reply to: Annee

No, you're not pro-equality. You just got done thinking that trans-species is a joke.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

No, you're not pro-equality. You just got done thinking that trans-species is a joke.

Guess you need to provide where I said that.

a reply to: Freija

I'll agree with that.

There is little connection, if any, to gender dysphoria, as you already pointed out.

originally posted by: The angel of light


Is really ethical to offer medical treatments to transform the body beyond what it is naturally granted by birth in order to try to fix problems that exist in the mind?

I know someone that is intersex with Swyer Syndrome ( XY gonadal dysgenesis)
en.wikipedia.org...

The person was born with XY male sex chromosomes but has normal female genitalia.
This person has always felt male and around age 14 refused female hormone replacement therapy.

The first that happened was the doctor reported the family to Child Protective Services (CPS) and they tried to force
the hormone replacement therapy.
The judge after hearing the person and and court appointed shrink ruled he did not have to take the therapy.

At about 16 he started taking male hormone replacement.

About age 27 a company he was working for found out and fired him believing he had had sex change surgery and it was a violating of the company owner Religious belief.
The company ended up settling the lawsuit he filed for a nice sum of money,

One thing he hates is being called transgender and transsexual because he never underwent any trans procedure and uses the right term intersex.
en.wikipedia.org...

The question is what sets the sex of anyone genitalia, chromosomes or something else.

Is really ethical to offer medical treatments to transform the body beyond what it is naturally granted by birth in order to try to fix problems that exist in the mind?

if you take that statement literally, well, is it ethical to separate conjoined twins? I mean they weren't born with separate bodies, so well, maybe they weren't meant to have separate lives, right? Their desire to live separate lives, well, that is just an emotional, mental thing right..
and look at society, in all it's vain glory. Facelifts and tummy tucks, along with breast enlargements.... isn't all that really just something to fix the personal emotionally, mentally? Same with all the cosmetics that people slap on their faces.... or the tatoos they endure...what are the purpose of those?

and, I am sorry, but you weren't born with holes in your ears, or your lips, or tongues.

if you take that statement that was made as a justification, how many of those things that I have listed would you also have to condemn?

in the end, it's better to let people be, it's their body, their lives, their souls, their sanity and happiness. and more than likely they aren't affecting anyone on these boards in any way whatsoever. and more importantly, they probably can find something to condemn you for that they feel equally obnoxious.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why does it matter if they are doing their business behind closed stalls? If you asked me, I'd have done away with gender specific bathrooms a long time ago.

Peter Criss - The Cat Man. KISS' best selling single was sung by a Cat-Man.

Seriously, though. Gender IS determined by physical traits and the 23rd pair of chromosomes. That's like saying a person with Down's syndrome saying he doesn't have it because he doesn't want to have it. "But in my mind, I don't have DS".

I'm not saying Transgender people should persecuted. I'm just saying the "dysphoria" implies an existential crisis that defies the physical and biological component of life on Earth.

What's even more crazy is the surge in androgyny and asexuality. It's always been around, but why the sharp increase? People are the new GMO. They said that 1:68 kids are being born autistic. Years ago, it was 1:1,000. Now air, land and water are poisoned. So is the food and medicine.

People just want to re-design the world. Whatever. We can't stop it. Nature will stop it eventually.

originally posted by: Darmok
They said that 1:68 kids are being born autistic. Years ago, it was 1:1,000. Now air, land and water are poisoned. So is the food and medicine.

People just want to re-design the world. Whatever. We can't stop it. Nature will stop it eventually.

Awareness, knowledge. Seizures are not being pocessed by the Devil. Science now knows it's part of a brain function.

Awareness,knowledge, reclassification. Autism has become a larger spectrum. Years ago my grandson would not have been diagnosed autistic.

Awareness, acceptance, knowledge. Years ago homosexuality was classified as a mental illness. Now we know differently. It is inherent in how the body developed in utero, same as gender dysphoria.

a reply to: Annee

I don't think so, as a matter of fact the decision of Mrs Katrine Jenner to want to date a man is clearly showing that Mr Bruce Jenner was along an entire life a repressed Homosexual.

It is not necessary to be a great specialist to see that this person is trying to 'change' gender just because he never found the nerve to live with another man as a man, so his subconscious mind feels that it is more socially accepted to perform as a woman.

That is the real problem here, the obsession in the theories that are now so popular in the Western civilization to claim that sexuality is an arena on which there are only to fundamental and unique roles to perform: male or female.

Whoever defies that status quo is under so much pressure that thinks it is easier to adapt himself to the society instead to ask for the reformation of social norms that are clearly wrong, or obsolete, based on the fixation that we are still living in the Eden paradise where Eve was created for Adam or the contrary and that's all.

Can you imagine what is going to happen in this world if everybody reproduces and starts families with children in the rate we have seen along the XX century? we have right now twice the population of the 1960s and in that decade the humanity was four times the population of the ending of XIX century.

The terrible wars and economic crisis of the XX and XXI century are showing clearly that no social or economic or political model is able to guarantee productivity good enough to support the growing rates of population of a demographic explosion.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: Annee

That is the UK. In the USA - - it is not discriminatory to decline the wording or special decorations for a cake.

From what I remember, the gay cake saga happened in Ireland. The baker refused to decorate the cake with "Support Gay Marriage" or something similar. The cake was not for an individual but the baker was charged with discrimination. I remember being quite surprised at the time it was initially reported.

It is discriminatory to refuse to bake a cake, using standard design/decoration that has been used/offered to heterosexual couples.

I agree.

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: Annee

I don't think so, as a matter of fact the decision of Mrs Katrine Jenner to want to date a man is clearly showing that Mr Bruce Jenner was along an entire life a repressed Homosexual.

No, it doesn't.

The physical body (gender) is not the same as sexual orientation. Who a transgender is attracted to has nothing to do with their gender dysphoria.

There's ignorance, then there's intentional ignorance. Information is available for those who look for knowledge - - not read/listen to tabloids.