One question about LaVoy Finicum shooting

a reply to: Gryphon66

I can just feel the Christian love oozing from this one .. .

Well done.

Even if you could feel it oozing it wouldn't cover the hate of some.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I don't care how you were raised nor how many sit-ins you've attended.

My posting of my personal relevant details was done only to refute your claim, I don't care what your opinion is of me.

People at sit-ins get sprayed in the face with pepper spray. Not these guys.

I have no interest in a back and forth on which type of protest is better than the other but I will say this: Public protest is a right protected by the Constitution, federal land whether obtained by Eminent Domain (which needs some restriction added to the US Constitution) or ownership of never before owned land by a US citizen (however repugnant original obtainment was) is a power that the Constitution has given the Congress. Simply making a choice to go and take that land from the government is not permitted not protected by the US Constitution.

So whether you like it or not... the type of protests I go to are a right, by birth, in which the government has no authority to banish. These militia guys are not engaging in action that restricts the government in any kind of way.

If you lack an info on a mental disorder, any psychological diagnosis, or insight into someone else's state of mind,

I don't believe I ever came close to claiming that I was qualified to diagnose anyone or that I was attempting such. Is this what opinions are in your mind, clinical diagnoses? Utter nonsense. For that matter when did batsht crazy even become a clinical diagnosis?

or insight into someone else's state of mind

How tedious...

labelling people crazy is a lie.

Oh jeeze... it's an opinion.


opinion
[uh-pin-yuh n]

Synonyms
Examples
Word Origin

noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment:
to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.:
to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem:
I haven't much of an opinion of him.

The least you could do is quote them, instead of making stuff up.

The Oregonian

No quotation marks but the reporter does claim it was said. I may not be able to prove of them said such, but I have seen clips from their own videos of different members stating essentially that they were willing to go down fighting... I'm just not willing to sit through hours of video to find direct quotes for you. However, batsht crazy is applicable IN MY OPINION, just by them having ever made the attempt to do what they are/were doing.


Take it up with the Constitution, like the people who chose to trespass should have.

a reply to: randyvs

Oh spare us... very few people on this site actually hate Christianity or Christians, I'm not not one of them.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: randyvs

Oh spare us... very few people on this site actually hate Christianity or Christians, I'm not not one of them.

I think I have a better knowledge of that than you.

a reply to: randyvs

You don't know me at all.

a reply to: Kali74

I know you aren't the topic.
Speaking of that, I'll just ask for convenience only.

Was the person shot to death driving the vehicle?
And was a cop struck by that vehicle?
Because if that is true......then all bets are off.

originally posted by: Rezlooper
This points out the obvious question... if LaVoy Finicum wanted a shootout with LEO in the first place, why would he have come out with hands up in surrender.

Easy. He didn't want a stray bullet hitting the other people in the car or he had a second thought and choose to make his stand.

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Rezlooper

Even though I believe the Federal Government has long ago userpe their original authority as evidenced in my post in a previous thread,

a reply to: annalisa2016

Article 1 Section 8.

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Ces- sion of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, be- come the seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Con- sent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

All places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the State.

I do not see anything here that permits the fed to take possession of vast tracts of land. Only enough sufficient for Magazines etc. ,

I do not see your pursuit of your argument being very valid. The truth is that after a months standoff this man's emotional state had become severely compromised to the point that he no longer possessed the capacity of rational thought and any confrontation was enough justification to light his fuse. He believed in his cause so intently that this event was inevitable for him. I imagine he flung the door open enraged and,with his hands in the air, screaming, "YOU WANT TO KILL ME" ? HERE I AM! GO AHEAD AND SHOOT ME YOU SONS OF BITCHES! GO AHEAD! I'LL MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU!, AND HE REACHED FOR HIS WEAPON.

He had lost his ability to think rationally at this point and THAT is what got him killed.....

You have no idea what your talking about this isn't about the government taking land they own it. These ranchers believe they should be able to decide how to manage and use federal lands. They believe the federal government should allow them to make the decisions and not charge them for things like grazing. Funny people think this I'd a land grab your right but its the ranchers that are trying to do the grabbing. See federal laws require for example that wildlife must be maintained. Ranchers want to cull wild horses since these wild horses graze the land that the ranchers want to use for their cattle.

Your whole argument for government over reach is apparently you don't think the US government has the right to decide what it can do with US property. And somehow them deciding on preserving the land for wild life instead of just allowing anyone to do whatever they want is some how wrong.

Here I'd the rules for land management which attempts to conserve natural resources which includes wildlife.
www.law.cornell.edu...

a reply to: randyvs

The driver was shot and killed after, yes it looks to me, after hitting a cop with the vehicle then jumping out of the vehicle and reaching for something on his person.

Do you know me well enough now to call all bets off?

a reply to: Kali74

Alright! All I meant by that Kali was that if the driver struck
a cop with his vehicle. I'm surprised this didn't happen.

a reply to: randyvs

It wasn't a movie. The cops provided cover for the struck officer and shot when Finicium reached for something on his person. That is what my eyes tell me when I watch the video.

a reply to: Kali74

I know the difference between a movie and a
video Kali. Nice talk'n to ya.

originally posted by: Cypress

originally posted by: Rezlooper
This points out the obvious question... if LaVoy Finicum wanted a shootout with LEO in the first place, why would he have come out with hands up in surrender.

Easy. He didn't want a stray bullet hitting the other people in the car or he had a second thought and choose to make his stand.

Silly assumption (having a second thought), only made to reinforce your belief the occupiers were in the wrong and law enforcement was in the right.

a reply to: Necrobile From what I have seen in the video he was shot while his hands were still up, and instinctively reached for the wound, 2X, as he was shot again. This is not uncommon. LE will sometimes use a less than lethal round in order to make the suspect "appear" to be reaching for a weapon. Check out the Aaron Campbell shooting in PDX OR for a good example of that tactic (no video).

Bottom line is he was gaining steam and adherents to his cause, and 4-500 people were waiting for him to speak in the County North, and when you fight the power, some of you will die. The calculus of "acting" in a revolutionary manner is inconsistent with every ounce of economic power, representative government, and corporate influence. No one would succeed without hundreds of thousands of well prepared and well equipped people with the training and will to prevail, and even then it would be a gamble. Some will always feel the need to try, it's an American trait, and America is a young country that will undoubtedly pass through many upheavals in the next 100 years, some righteous, some nefarious, but we have all, at some point, felt the need to get away from the fences that are imposed by government or even ourselves, and some of us even manage to do it, dead or not.

originally posted by: Ne3rka
a reply to: Necrobile From what I have seen in the video he was shot while his hands were still up, and instinctively reached for the wound, 2X, as he was shot again. This is not uncommon. LE will sometimes use a less than lethal round in order to make the suspect "appear" to be reaching for a weapon. Check out the Aaron Campbell shooting in PDX OR for a good example of that tactic (no video).

But that tactic probably wasn't even necessary in this case because when a persons adrenaline is raging in hyperdrive, a couple of shots to the body probably wouldn't take him down anyway. It was the last shot by the trooper from the woods that took him down, which was probably a fatal head shot.

a reply to: Rezlooper

Silly assumption.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Rezlooper

Silly assumption.

Maybe it is, but not any sillier than all the others posted on this thread, especially the one about him reaching for a weapon.

Let me preface my reply by saying I am not a LEO supporter, nor do I think they are always in the right. HOWEVER, it is my opinion that the circumstances that lead to his death was not some kind of TPTB takedown. It was the fault of this group of morons that thought taking over a federal building was a good idea. There are many other ways to take a stand for what you believe in, and occupation of a federal building and destruction of artifacts is not the smartest plan. It is also my opinion that this group are terrorists, plain and simple. The people of that town wanted nothing to do with them, we're very vocal about wanting them to leave. Plus, the Hammonds distanced themselves from this real quick because they knew it was a dumb idea that was gonna go nowhere fast.

Here us the FYI definition of domestic terrorism, from here

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

a reply to: Rezlooper
The tactic was probably not necessary, but if that is the way one is trained it would be difficult not to use it. Just my .02

originally posted by: ReadLeader

That being said, Lavoy was NOT going to jail. His ship had sailed
He clearly wanted to meet his maker,,,,suicide by cop,,,,,,,

Do you have a source to support this claim that Mr Finicum "clearly wanted to meet his maker" and commit "suicide by cop", that "Lavoy was NOT going to jail"?