UK Sugar Tax to be imposed by 2020 on all NHS Hospitals

originally posted by: crazyewok
# the nanny state.

How about a pedophile tax! That will be most of the house of lords and half of the commons bankrupt!

You would have to make pedophilia legal to tax it..is that what your suggesting?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Yes this is a silly idea! You can't just outprice people into a healthy diet. It's unfair for a start, to remove the choice from only those on a low income. And it will likely push more to consume artificial sweeteners which is bad news.

Surely better education on diet would be more beneficial, Dr's never seem bothered about diet and they're too quick to dish out the pills. Making it clearer just how much sugar is in stuff too would help, I am sure if folk knew there where 10 teaspoons of sugar in a can of Coke at least some might reduce their intake.

It doesn't help of course that there is not a healthy snack to be found in our local hospital, a joke really when you think about it.

We're consuming way too much sugar so the problem needs to be addressed. I think labeling products with the amount of teaspoons of sugar inside would be a good start. Unfortunately, our governments seem to be scared to tell big corporations what to do so they take the easy solution and make us plebs pay.

Taxing sugary drinks is a bit contradictory as we have the gimmick '1p off a pint' each election and beer isn't particularly healthy either.

Ultimately, I don't see why I should have to pay more because some people can't control themselves.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

A 'Medicare' tax, in the UK?

Okay, I humbly confess my personal ignorance to the names of things across the Atlantic... I just find it a curious coincidence if this entitlement title is applied in both nations.

Aside from that? Nice post

I did check out almost all of the "taxes" on the list and removed some that weren't relevant and confess to presuming medicare was short for medical care i.e. paying for the ambulance paying for "accident" treatments etc so apologies for that error
I did also forget to add a "tax" the new 5p on plastic bags!!

Thing is, all people will do is convert to diet drinks which in my opinion are ten times worse than sugary ones!! Good old Minister Simon Stevens is also considering bringing in an age restriction for energy drinks such as Monster etc

Why bring it into only hospitals & care homes....the places where obesity is highly unlike to be a problem in the first place? Most hospital staff I know rarely get time to eat, patients are often too ill to eat and the old folks in the care homes...well they've lived that long on the lethal "sugar" so why bother now? Its a bit like saying if a fat or overweight person goes into hospital "We will put you on a diet". UK hospitals now charge for almost anything they can from a "captive audience" as it were, including telephones, parking, wi-fi and this sugar tax is NOT being done because of Government concern for our health its just a stealth tax which will no doubt be funnelled into the pockets of the private firms now running the NHS

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
I did check out almost all of the "taxes" on the list and removed some that weren't relevant and confess to presuming medicare was short for medical care i.e. paying for the ambulance paying for "accident" treatments etc so apologies for that error
I did also forget to add a "tax" the new 5p on plastic bags!!

Thing is, all people will do is convert to diet drinks which in my opinion are ten times worse than sugary ones!! Good old Minister Simon Stevens is also considering bringing in an age restriction for energy drinks such as Monster etc

Why bring it into only hospitals & care homes....the places where obesity is highly unlike to be a problem in the first place? Most hospital staff I know rarely get time to eat, patients are often too ill to eat and the old folks in the care homes...well they've lived that long on the lethal "sugar" so why bother now? Its a bit like saying if a fat or overweight person goes into hospital "We will put you on a diet". UK hospitals now charge for almost anything they can from a "captive audience" as it were, including telephones, parking, wi-fi and this sugar tax is NOT being done because of Government concern for our health its just a stealth tax which will no doubt be funnelled into the pockets of the private firms now running the NHS

I'm really sorry but the list in your first post is still very wrong, to the point that I'm convinced you're either really, really young and you don't have any experience of paying (non-VAT) tax yourself, or you're not actually based in the UK.

For a start - and this should be glaringly obvious - you've included GST (which is used in some commonwealth countries but doesn't exist in the UK) AND ALSO included VAT (which is the UK equivalent to GST). In the same way, you include excise tax (ignoring the issue over tax and duties) while then also including alcohol and cigarettes - which fall under the same umbrella.

Secondly, many things on that list don't exist as a tax, but do exist as an application/processing fee. It might make for a very interesting debate as to the distinction between the two.

Thirdly, there are some taxes which ANY UK TAXPAYER would automatically add without even thinking about it. Don't believe me. Then tell me... where is Council Tax in that list? It's not. Every person over 18 living in a house is either paying their share of CT or providing letters to show they are exempt - unless you live with very kind parents or others who are prepared to pay your bills for you. Yet... you write the list the first time, then go back to correct and amend it... but still forget CT.

Stamp Duty? Capital Gains tax? Well known and dreaded by anyone who has ever bought a property. Not on the list. Neither are the Gambling duties you pay or the Insurance Premium Tax - both a little more obscure, but considering how well researched the list claims to be, there's really no excuse to have missed them either.

What we do have on yor list is Real Estate Tax (we're not America; we pay stamp duty, capital gains tax if applicable, and income tax on rental income, noone outside of an obscure subset of accountants uses the term Real Estate Tax in relation to these), Recreational Vehicle Tax (we might need to tell the DVLA they've forgotten to charge anyone this tax, possibly due to it not existing in the UK), and host of other US-specific taxes that the UK simply doesn't have, or that are included under different terms/umbrellas.

Poverty tax? Poverty tax (like the equally fake "bedroom tax" which I'm shocked doesn't actually appear on this list) is a made up term used by activists. It might exists as an effect (ie as your wages go up, your benefits do down) but it doesn't exist as a tax. Why is it on this list?

School tax? Prescription Fees tax?

Whatever this list is, it is not a list of UK taxes. Not in any realistic way. Not without suddenly trying to explain away all the discrepancies.

Generally I don't care about a few discrepancies or someone posting up an incorrect list... but to say that you checked it (impossible, even the most simple search would confirm how many of those are not connected to the UK) and even claim to have corrected it... that's what has triggered this response. Mistakes are one thing, wilfully misleading and lying about it is another.

Outside of that, the point about "Sugar Tax" is interesting, especially the use of price controls to impact on social behaviour. As a general rule, the tax is less about discouraging you from buying the product, and more about increasing the amount of funding available to treat the health problems caused by the product. In theory, it doesn't always work out that way in practice.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I seem to remember something about the King looking to tax our Tea...


Hmmm. How'd that work out?

a reply to: EvillerBob

There was no wilfully misleading no lying I checked out some of the more obscure ones and deleted them as not being relevant. The list I'm sorry to say was taken from The list was actually obtained from Institute for Fiscal Studies & The Guardian which allegedly incorporated ALL UK taxes payable to the Government in the form of either taxes or "fees" but which still went to the Government such as dog licences and fishing licences I would argue that since say your'e a fisherman or dog owner and have to pay that licence fee its a form of stealth tax I would also argue that the tv licence could be seen as tax. It wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list it was merely there to demonstrate that the amount of taxes is huge.

Here is the list again with some additions just for you
Accounts Receivable Tax
Airline surcharge tax
Airline Fuel Tax
Airport Maintenance Tax
Alcohol tax
Bank Interest Tax
Building Permit Tax
Business Rates (Tax)
Cigarette Tax
Carbon Tax
Car Tax
Capital Gains Tax
Corporation Tax
Council Tax
Death Tax
Dog Licence (fee)
Driving Licence Tax (fee)
Environmental Tax (Fee)
Excise Taxes
Gambling Tax
Income Tax
Insurance Tax
Fishing License Tax (fee)
Food License Tax
Petrol Tax (too much per litre)
Gross Receipts Tax
Inheritance Tax
Marriage License Tax (fee)
Mortgage Tax
National Insurance
Pension Tax
Prescription Tax (fee)
Private Healthcare Tax
Savings & Investment Tax
Service Charge Tax
Stamp Duty
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Stamp Duty Reserve Tax
Sugar Tax
Utilities tax
Value Added Tax
Vehicle Sales for companies Tax
Water Tax

I am old and senile will do better next time

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: EvillerBob

...The list was actually obtained from Institute for Fiscal Studies & The Guardian which allegedly incorporated ALL UK taxes payable to the Government in the form of either taxes or "fees" but which still went to the Government such as dog licences and fishing licences...

Dog Licence? The dog licence was abolished 30 years ago.

Again, that list is absolutely not an accurate list of current UK taxes, it still contains duplicate entries which artificially inflates the length, and it still contains things not seen in the UK (some American states have Gross Receipts Tax; the UK has Corporation Tax, which was already on the list anyway).

I've had a look at the IFS. Here's a link to a PDF that lists the current UK Tax System - including some analysis of various taxes.

IFS Tax System PDF

It's a bit dated (2014) but it should become immediately apparent that your list "from the Guardian and IFS" bears no resemblance to the actual list offered up by the IFS.

Could you link to your source, because I have some letters of complaint to write if the Guardian is publishing something like that. It's downright disgusting and shoddy journalism on their part.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978
Beatles.

I like this take though:

originally posted by: MrMasterMinder

originally posted by: crazyewok
# the nanny state.

How about a pedophile tax! That will be most of the house of lords and half of the commons bankrupt!

You would have to make pedophilia legal to tax it..is that what your suggesting?

Its called a joke.


Get a sense of humour, life is a lot easier with one.

THIS IS NOT A TAX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The NHS is just raising the price of certain items in its on site vending machines.

You will still be able to buy water,tea,coffee (which is cheaper anyway) if you need a drink while visiting a sick relative.

This way those who can't do without their koolaid fix for more than an hour can help subsidise the hospital that will be providing their obesity/diabetic care over the rest of their life.

I think it's a great idea

Maybe help keep the parking prices down too with a bit of luck as the hospital trusts will be making more cash - maybe they will even be able to afford better equipment, more beds or staff.


Flame on

a reply to: johnb

The Government Minister himself refers to it as a tax. If they are so bothered about our health rather than their coffers, remove the vending machines, the Costa Coffee and the WH Smiths. I very much doubt if any revenue from this move will go to where it should

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Such a tax worked well when they put it on the colonies in 1764...what could go wrong, here?

But seriously, when will governments start understanding that (a) they can't tax health problems out of existence, and (b) that, eventually, something will be the tax that breaks the camel's back...

a reply to: SlapMonkey

But seriously, when will governments start understanding that (a) they can't tax health problems out of existence, and (b) that, eventually, something will be the tax that breaks the camel's back...

You're probably right. People are usually willing, if not happy, to pay for their habits.

Perhaps the purpose of the tax is to help cover the increased medical costs involved with the health problems rather than trying to alter behavior

a reply to: crazyewok

Sry i guess im not used to people making jokes about pedophilia.

a reply to: johnb

The NHS sugar tax is the start of the process to implement a nationwide sugar tax I bet.
www.bbc.co.uk...

It's a win win for them because if it does reduce sugar consumption that's obviously positive, but if it doesn't reduce sugar consumption, then they've made a load of money!

originally posted by: Phage
Perhaps the purpose of the tax is to help cover the increased medical costs involved with the health problems rather than trying to alter behavior

Perhaps, but I could easily argue that the cost of medical issues should not be the responsibility of the collective, but that's a whole ideological conversation on a different topic, so I'll just say that I don't accept that premise any more than any other premise to continually add more taxes on people and their lifestyles.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Cobaltic1978
Beatles.

I like this take though:

Great choice.

The Taxman's taken all my dough and left me in my stately home.

originally posted by: johnb
THIS IS NOT A TAX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The NHS is just raising the price of certain items in its on site vending machines.

You will still be able to buy water,tea,coffee (which is cheaper anyway) if you need a drink while visiting a sick relative.

This way those who can't do without their koolaid fix for more than an hour can help subsidise the hospital that will be providing their obesity/diabetic care over the rest of their life.

I think it's a great idea

Maybe help keep the parking prices down too with a bit of luck as the hospital trusts will be making more cash - maybe they will even be able to afford better equipment, more beds or staff.


Flame on

It's not a tax? The NHS are going to receive extra revenue by increasing the price of sugary food stuffs?

In my book that's a tax.