Political Correctness is Going to Destroy US

originally posted by: Astyanax
No, my friend. You are making excuses for bigotry.

Every group has a percentage within it that fits what you call the ‘model’. If one looks hard enough, you can always find a scapegoat to justify one’s prejudices.

True, but what is driving the Muslim negativity today that really wasn't there in the past? What keeps the negative focus on blacks that is not seen towards other minorities such as Asians and even Latin Americans outside of illegal aliens? You do know that at one point Asians were considered lower than slaves and why they built the railroads since it was very dangerous and their lives were cheaper. You do know that the Irish were seen as the lowest humans in America at one point too. There is something more to all this than just being black. Go back a few decades and no one on earth really gave a second thought about Muslims anywhere outside of the Middle East, what has changed world opinion? I'm sure if little orange Buddhist monks acted the same there would be "bigotry" towards them too, so is it really bigotry when in the past there wasn't any, or other groups were able to overcome it?

Bigotry I guess is everywhere. I suggest that 10,000 Americans go to Iran and bring their western christian ways with them and practice them to the full extent and see what happens...lol but I do not think bigotry is the right word here....

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I think we need to go a step further and resist all dichotomous forms of speech - this or that.

PC, or political correctness, it bears pointing out, is probably a term of derision coined by its opponents, that is, by conservatives.

But what is the ultimate problem when it comes to human thinking? I would say the problem is dissociation. When we ontologize - or essentialize something - which is what we constantly are doing when use language, and particularly in the way language masks reflexive defensive behavior - we are getting "caught up" in our own experience of ourselves feeling a certain way.

Human beings, at root, are prideful creatures who time and again trick themselves into selfish behaviors - in thinking, speaking, acting - who require significant education for them to understand how their own minds function, and what they can do (if they could even be motivated!) to act differently.

"Political correctness" is bad in only one sense: stereotypy. Stereotypy - with a y at the end - just means "stereotype", but as a general term for automatic, reflexive, and unreflective ways of acting. When we people pursue political correctness, they want to make friends, give a good impression, and overall, feel good about themselves (i.e. pride). This of course does not mean that no sincere emotion of altruism exists in them; it just means that in most contexts, at most times, they are liable to respond according to "political correctness", that is, in a stereotyped, cliche, and self-serving manner.

BTW, it is a very good thing to care about the well being of others, and in almost every way, liberal ethos is more scientifically justified than the "survival of the fittest" ethic of conservatives; however, whats most desirable is rational thought and the capacity to put your own reasoning, thought and self-organization (openness to being influenced in non-conscious ways) under the microscope, thus indicating that you are aware of your inability to be in charge of why you act most of the time (thus acknowledging science, which shows that people are automatic more often than they are consciously reflective) and so, open to reflection when others indicate some bias or problem in your thinking.

Political correctness can be avoided when one considers the motivation one has for speaking a certain way, which entails knowing the relationship between your bodily affects (what you feel in your body) and the way your mind becomes organized in relation to them (that is, to concord with them).

originally posted by: reldra
You are kidding, right? Conservatism is often based in religion.

I would rather have basic, human emotions towards my fellow man that aren't muddied by religious sect ideas.

Not sure what religion has to do with this discussion, but irrational mindsets tend to drag in other emotional subjects in order to create chaos, its much like PC spin.

Desiring mindless emotions over facts, when it is clearly wrong, is a red flag for irrational liberal behavior. What you or I personally believe is irrelevant.

What is important here on ATS, is discussing the effects that this warped mental disease has on our society in general. ~$heopleNation

dp

originally posted by: Astrocyte
"Political correctness" is bad in only one sense: stereotypy. Stereotypy - with a y at the end - just means "stereotype", but as a general term for automatic, reflexive, and unreflective ways of acting. When we people pursue political correctness, they want to make friends, give a good impression, and overall, feel good about themselves (i.e. pride). This of course does not mean that no sincere emotion of altruism exists in them; it just means that in most contexts, at most times, they are liable to respond according to "political correctness", that is, in a stereotyped, cliche, and self-serving manner.

Political Correctness is bad when it creates a scenario where a person cannot express themselves out of fear of reprisal. When that happens it becomes de facto repression and creates an environment of 'thought crime'. I would prefer people speak their mind, it lets us all know who they really are; maximum transparency. Intimidating people into what words they choose to use is an attack on free expression.

originally posted by: SheopleNation

originally posted by: reldra
You are kidding, right? Conservatism is often based in religion.

I would rather have basic, human emotions towards my fellow man that aren't muddied by religious sect ideas.

Not sure what religion has to do with this discussion, but irrational mindsets tend to drag in other emotional subjects in order to create chaos, its much like PC spin.

Desiring mindless emotions over facts, when it is clearly wrong, is a red flag for irrational liberal behavior. What you or I personally believe is irrelevant.

What is important here on ATS, is discussing the effects that this warped mental disease has on our society in general. ~$heopleNation

Lol at mental disease. talk about living in lala land, insulting people cause you think there wrong, just grow a thicker skin, you wont feel offended and wont need to attack people cause they think differently than you. Bah bah mr sheep

originally posted by: Astyanax
Then you miscall it so.

Affirmative action is not privilege. It is an attempt — albeit flawed, inadequate and quite possibly absurd — to right a historical wrong that badly needs to be righted.

How does one go about attempting to "right a historical wrong that badly needs to be righted" without discriminating against the descendants of the people that actually did something wrong? Think about that for a moment. White people living today that have done nothing wrong to other groups are discriminated against or made to feel guilt/shame over something they did not even do!

More pertinently for resentful white supremacists, it is an attempt to build a future society in which life outcomes for black people are as good, on average, as they are for whites. Most Western countries have advanced far in this direction. The last remaining bastions of white privilege are the Slavic world (Russia and some of its geographical and cultural satellites), Australia, where it has not yet been seriously challenged, and the United States of America, where the legacy of slavery will continue to poison society for some generations yet to come.

WHY are life outcomes for blacks not as good, on average, compared to whites? Is life as good for the average asian, latino or arab? Do these other groups continuously appeal to the past to explain their current predicaments?

This is atrocious. Some excuses can be made for Russia, which is still struggling to pull itself out of the Middle Ages, and we may dismiss Australia as a small country (in population terms) that has not yet attained cultural maturity and is only now beginning to deal with its racist past. But that the United States, the putative pinnacle of Western civilizaton and culture, the leader of the ‘Free’ world, should be as backward as they is a shame and a disgrace.

How exactly does a country "deal with its racist past" in your opinion? What rights does a white person have that a black, aboriginal or native does not?

Affirmative action is far from a perfect response to the historical oppression of black people and others. It is predicated on over-simplistic assumptions and comes with a built-in helping of unfairness. However, it is at least an attempt to do something about the problem. Without affirmative action, how would you improve the relative position of black people in Western society, and right egregious historical wrongs?

You improve the relative position of black people in Western society by tackling the internal issues present in that population, NOT by blaming an external enemy and living in the past.

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a reply to: Teikiatsu

I study human beings - in evolutionary, neurological, relational, but ultimately, psychodynamic terms. My life's obsession is bringing to public awareness how human minds function, based upon current scientific understanding.

Few fields can claim really useful knowledge for society. But the field generally known as developmental psychology can claim A LOT, because with the help of the evolutionary framework (trusting, of course, that you are sane enough to recognize the reality of evolutionary processes) it can basically show ourselves for what we are, and what we do.

In philosophical language, epistemology (how we know) is far more amenable to scientific methods than ontology (what ultimate reality is), although ontology is pretty much what human beings hope for.

In philosophical terms, humans are propositional creatures: when we think, we think about something. But not just that! Our statements often have the presumption of truth to them, because as social mammals who evolved in a social world, our capacity for thought, and later on, language, has been in the fundamental service of making friends, or intimidating others whom we feel threatened by. Self-deception, also, makes our propositional statements - that is, our actual thinking, speaking and acting - more believable, and thus, more useful.

I do not say any of this just for the fun of it, but to point out that even your words here are riddled with wishful thinking. Being able to say what you want when you want it is a nice fantasy; however, in reality, and as we all know from personal and social experience, people are intensely sensitive to positive and social feedback, whether it be the content of spoken words or the more subtle communications in facial expressions, eye gaze, movement and vocal tone. Because of this, we are BEHOLDEN, whether we like it or not (and you better like it, else you are a social liability, a 'free-loader', in social science language, who refuses to honor how the natural world has made us) Also, the folksy idea you wrote

. I would prefer people speak their mind, it lets us all know who they really are;

Is the sort of statement that assumes that people are 'singular' selves. Science tells us differently. While phenomenologically (or how we actually experience ourselves) we are one, in reality, everyone is dissociative to one degree or another, which means we are unconsciously "switching" perspectival frames in accord with contextual factors in our environment. Our brain does this, and our mind never notices it.

Look at these series of charts.



This chart simply explains how our sense of identity is formed. We are the organism and the world is our frame of reference. Each object in the world requires a certain responsiveness from us. In establishing our identities, genetic systems interact with a stimulating environment (or object, a psychological term for how our mind-brain experiences specific people, objects in the environment, or their representations in our memory-systems) and the 'coherency' that emerges is the state we call identity. It's an unconsciously calibrated state that works largely below our level of awareness. It takes mental practice to notice how it works , which is to say, to recognize how bodily affects bias our perspectival frames.

Heres an elaboration in two additional diagrams





Here is a more complex elaboration of dissociation in schematic terms. The right amygdala, open to the environment, biases perception by noting what is relevant to the organisms well being. As social creatures, our amygdalas are intensely 'open' to the meanings of social cues, and thus, the threat of social exclusion. As a response, the left amygdala of human beings ADAPTS - as the left amygdala marks the response of the organism to the perceived threat (or advantage) noted by the right amygdala. As humans, and as speakers of languages, are adaptive responses are largely masked in reflexive social language, and thus, exceedingly hard to make apparent to the speaker of the language who truly does believe that he perceives correctly.



So...we need to be careful, very careful, when we speak, not to exaggerate, as exaggeration is largely the result of hyper-arousal of the affective systems, which leads to dissociation of important attenuating elements as we follow the "logical current" of our super-charged thought-stream.

As I wrote earlier, political correctness is definitely a problem. But so is the reactionary attitude that seems to consolidate in the minds of others who get angry at the 'stupidity' of political correctness. If it's a problem - and it is - we get around it not by provoking people who are speaking as they do to protect a fragile self, but - and this is the hard part - recognizing that such dissociations happen just as easily in us as it happens in them. Speaking with arrogance - indicating by righteous indignation - will of course promote not mere dissociation, but antagonism, and polarization. Something we humans need to get better at avoiding at all costs if we can continue the impressive progress we have thus far made in our evolution!!

a reply to: Dark Ghost

The west, Anglo-Saxon culture, and all that currently live according to its legacy no matter what the race and creed, are the only ones apologizing in the history of the world for their past crimes. They were the first in the history of the world to abolish slavery, and the first to actively make amends for that crime against humanity, yet are still the ones who must pay up for it. The same goes for every single atrocity, crusade, and evil act it has ever committed. To expect a higher standard than that is the greatest feet of absurdity and double standards.

I'm just going to rant now and I certainly agree and I've been saying it for years. I often wondered about 10 years ago during th dial up days what society would become if the Internet was to be used by most people. Then came the smart phone then came the normies by th hordes and now I find myself conflicted. I'm one inch from canceling my Interbet service. Why ?


Because we are living in a time where I can't say what's on my mind without offending someone. Myself I have always had a dark sense of humor. But among my close friends it was easy to get my jokes , but certainly not on the Internet. No matter where I go be it social media , forums ect I see people arguing over peanuts. Since when did ones opinion become blasphemy ? Why do people care so much what others think ? To top it off every one thinks they are right of course and have to always get a last word in edge wise. Arguments are this new sport see it's a competition now apparently . Can't even post an edgy meme without being reported to Facebook police lol.

Why am I rambling lie this ? I'll tell you in a second.


In all this social experiment called the Internet has become a huge disservice. Don't get me wrong it can also be a great thing but when the pros are outweighed by the cons then it's pointless to engage in discussion. ATS is the last of a dying breed in that most people seem to be rather intelligent and usually discussions are productive and civil. I can't say that for many web sights . I just wait for the end game now. I can't even register a email without providing my phone number and personal information. What next a drivers licnce and birth certificate ? I think divide and conquer has reached an apex due to political correctness . And the PTB is achieving more control thanks to social engineering . We have all been duped people. When we sugar coat everything while walking on egg shells in fear of hurting someone's feelings then society has become a giant sissy. Might as well cover everything in nerf products so nobody gets a boo boo in the feels.

The Internet is rate G it's official

originally posted by: Noobarino
I used to think being " PC " was a good thing, that it was simply being considerate and respecting other people.

Watching the events unfold in Europe, however, has made me reconsider the value of Political Correctness.

When the Media, the government, and law-enforcement actively try to hide and cover-up actual crimes in order to continue to their false narrative of a multi-cultural utopia ....PC has gone too far

When you have to deny reality to continue your PC narratives....PC has gone too far

Political Correctness has nothing whatsoever to with respect for other cultures etc. Its sole purpose is to suppress free speech. Can you not see that??????? Can you not see that you are being treated like a peasant??

For sure racism is wrong but there are other ways of dealing with it such as education and teaching mutual respect for each other but free speech should be regarded as a being so highly valued that it must never ever be compromised no matter what the issue.

There was a song on the radio when I was young about 'you never know what you got till its gone."

Are there any examples around the world where passing PC laws as been widely regarded as successful in reducing racist thoughts? It has done is suppressed free speech

When there is a war going on no weapons are off the table even cultural weapons such as anti racist laws, anti sexist laws and various other anti this and anti that laws.

Can you people not see that these laws have nothing to do with the subject matter in their intent. The intent is to curb free speech.

a reply to: Azureblue


I see it too

I just heard recently somewhere a law in in the works Dictating negative comments about police officers falls under a hate crime !

Sometimes I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not in some rediculous dream. As I said in my last post there is a bigger picture and we are all being played like a fiddle. They keep moving the goal posts and nobody notices. More legislation and more regulation.

Hate crime , just saying it makes me laugh. There is a stark difference between burning crosses in black folks yards and just being rude to someone but apparently a lot of people don't know the difference.

originally posted by: DarthFazer
a reply to: Azureblue


I see it too

I just heard recently somewhere a law in in the works Dictating negative comments about police officers falls under a hate crime !

Thank you for your post.

I find it rather odd that "making negative comments about police officers might fall under a hate crime" but making negative comments about people who claim welfare is not hate speech.

There's another thread on this forum right now about police jumping on a black rapper just because he had a wad of money on him when he was standing outside a bank. Strange that this not regarded as an act of hate or a racist act.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Its ok people just be honest, be bigoted or racist as much as you want,
No need to hide behind but but but its
The pc police fault.

Do we need daily pc is the devil thread.

This ladies and gentleman is exhibit A. Notice the immediate use of the buzzwords "bigoted" and "racist", Simply for discussing IF political correctness has gone too far.

You go JiveTurkey, you earn that gold star on your conscience!

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011
One thing to keep in mind is that the younger generations are being brainwashed by media to 'buy in' to this whole concept of PC.

What you said.

It seems we can't have our own thoughts anymore about Society and how it should be. We are being manipulated on a large scale, moreso the younger ones in pre-school and junior schools... so much so, they won't be able to do anything without the 'thought' police coming down on them (Like Minority Report). The young especially need to be able to think for themselves otherwise they may well find themselves living in that 1984 scenario! And us older ones would be to blame as we did nothing to stop it.

I blame Technology for the downfall of the human race, not all technology mind, just the part being used for nefarious means and of course those Scientists who like to play GOD!

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011
Two ways of looking at this are:

1) No genitals means to be gender neutral and not to imply sexism to any gender type

2) Far fetched idea, but maybe the future of birth control...crazy but future harvesting of eggs and sperm to produce test tube babies

WHAT!!!

And take all the fun out of reproducing

You remember that Film where having actual personal touch is out of bounds (Demolition Man)? The scene with Stallone & sandra bullock? Thats the way things are heading... 'sex' via telepathy wired into machines!

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33


PC has gone from just being decent to one another, to defending/advocating all types of insanity,

All types of insanity

You said it.

originally posted by: Xtrozero


True, but what is driving the Muslim negativity today that really wasn't there in the past?

'Islam' wasn't present in Europe really.... then all of a sudden its everywhere...

That's what i saw anyway.