Cancer and chemo

originally posted by: meremortal
a reply to: UniFinity

I have watched about 9 maybe more hours of that docu, very informative , but someone (not on here) asked me why i believed him?

there has to be an easier way in this day and age surely? money money money

Your last sentence is the crux of your issue.
As much as lots of people on this site would like you to believe, there isn't an easier way.
I wish there was one.
At the moment the decision should be based upon evidence and not anecdote, well, it always should really shouldn't it?

Fine, if the tried, tested and reproducible conventional treatment doesn't work then feel free to try anything you want.
But never do it the other way around.

The most important thing anyone with cancer has is time.
Don't waste it chasing shadows as when you realise that they are shadows then it could be too late to do anything about it.

a reply to: UniFinity

We have discussed Bolinger before on ATS, he is a charlatan who has become rich thanks to people's naivety.
But I don't mind discussing it again, just raise the points you believe from his videos and we can talk about it.

a reply to: Agartha

no sorry I don't want to debate this. It is not important here and now what we think.




Whatever you do OP, I wish you luck and great success with defeating cancer. I am glad you have watched the documentaries. Maybe try to consult your doctor about some other treatments and see his opinion about it why would or would it not work. Just ask as many questions as you can and maybe something will come up. Asking a question never hurt anyone it will only get you more peace of mind with better knowledge, whatever that may be.

a reply to: meremortal

Keep us posted and let us know what you decide. We are here for you, no matter what you choose.

I am afraid that this is a decision for you to take and you only.
The topic of chemotherapy being so controversial nobody has the right to tell you what to do and what not to do, since nobody can guarantee you full recovery with their method. Not even the doctors.
I know i personally will not have chemotherapy no matter what, but I will never advise someone else against it. After all some people got results with it, so who can tell what will be in your case?
So I guess the best thing you can do is to inform yourself as much as you can and then decide for yourself.
In the meanwhile stay strong and God bless you; is not an easy way ahead but you can make it.

originally posted by: WhiteHat
The topic of chemotherapy being so controversial

No it's not. Stop spreading dangerous lies.

I know i personally will not have chemotherapy no matter what

Easy to say from your armchair.

OP, listen to your doctor. Get a second opinion if need be. To waive modern medicine in favor of new age quackery is the very real chance of a needless death. You have a duty to not just yourself but also your family to take what your health medical advise you with all seriousness. For the love of god, don't take the word of a bunch of dangerously ignorant armchair scientists from the Google University on a conspiracy forum over that of trained medical experts when your life could be in the balance.

This thread is a saddening example of how dangerous the intersection of paranoid conspiracy anti-intellectualism and real-life can potentially be.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: anonentity

If nine out of ten Oncologist don't want chemo, then assuming they are not stupid and don't want to die, what do they use?

Are you going to provide a source for that claim or did you just make it up?

It was rhetorical, I read it in this thread.

a reply to: GetHyped

we are all going to die, i could be run over in 6 months?

how do you know they are wrong? a lot of folk die from chemo?

the doc told me a lot refuse chemo and a lot don't, he doesn't have figures of who did good, nor is he interested , once you say good bye no thanks to chemo don't regulate any more

and why should they? they have done their bit, their job!

originally posted by: meremortal
a reply to: GetHyped

we are all going to die, i could be run over in 6 months?

how do you know they are wrong? a lot of folk die from chemo?

the doc told me a lot refuse chemo and a lot don't, he doesn't have figures of who did good, nor is he interested , once you say good bye no thanks to chemo don't regulate any more

and why should they? they have done their bit, their job!

They're wrong because not a single one can provide robust and reproducible evidence that their alternative therapy worked.
Not one, and believe me, I've looked!

When you say "a lot of folk die from chemo" you do realise that they have cancer too?

Your doctor isn't in a position to tell you who died after refusing chemo, even giving you numbers as that could contravene patient confidentiality.
If you wished to you could submit a freedom of information request to the hospital for that info though although I think it would be some time before you received it.
Talk to the cancer support nurses in the hospital if your oncologist isn't explaining the information properly.

If you think that refusing chemo is the easier option and potentially letting the cancer progress well I'm afraid you're very wrong.
Cancer provides probably THE most agonising death you could imagine.
I watched my Mum die from it and the last few weeks were horrifying. There wasn't enough morphine in the world to even take the edge of the pain she experienced.
Unfortunately my Mum was diagnosed too late for any viable treatment to be offered.
You've been diagnosed in good time.

originally posted by: meremortal

the doc told me a lot refuse chemo and a lot don't, he doesn't have figures of who did good...

Here are some figures, MM: chemo decreseas a woman's risk of dying from breast cancer by approximately one third. This is a meta-analysis done in the UK with 100,000 women in 123 trials: www.thelancet.com...

Regimens with a lot more chemotherapy than the old standard 4AC (but not so nasty that they required stem-cell rescue) were somewhat more effective. They further decreased breast cancer mortality by 15-20%. The most prominent of these regimens is 4AC plus four cycles of “T” (a taxane), which became the standard of care for node-positive breast cancer after taxanes were developed.

There is zero evidence of any natural therapy or remedy working. Zero.

Chemo is easy to demonize because it is toxic, nobody is denying that, and it causes strong side effects because it targets a certain group of cells and amongst those cells it will target healthy ones. But it saves lives.

All best wishes to you, whatever you decide!

a reply to: GetHyped

The topic of chemotherapy being so controversial

No it's not. Stop spreading dangerous lies.

Yes it is. As long as there are opinions for and against it, is called controversial.

This thread is a saddening example of how dangerous the intersection of paranoid conspiracy anti-intellectualism and real-life can potentially be.

What your problem with letting the OP deciding for her self is? Cause that all I said. Hyped much?

a reply to: WhiteHat

I know i personally will not have chemotherapy no matter what

That is exactly what I and many others said for many years...until we were actually diagnosed with cancer. Both traditional and alternative treatments for anything will work for some and not others. I ended up with the chemo and radiation and so far still ticking.

It is a very personal choice for people and only they can decide what they feel is best. But really, until you are actually diagnosed, you don't know what you will choose in the end.

originally posted by: WhiteHat
Yes it is. As long as there are opinions for and against it, is called controversial.

There's enough fools who believe the world is flat, that doesn't make the topic controversial.

What your problem with letting the OP deciding for her self is?

Because there's enough misinformation and outright lies in this thread alone. If OP wishes to shun modern medical treatment in favor of unscientific quackery, that's really her prerogative.

Hyped much?

When the mindless conspiracy ramblings can result in death? Yeah, I hype much.

a reply to: Night Star
Well, I believe I am a person mature enough to know what I want, but allright, I will give it the benefit of doubt. Maybe I will do it, but I don't think so.
I've also had a family member who had cancer, and was given 80% chances of survival, and followed all the procedures and chemo and radiation by the book. Still was gone in exactly 14 months, also exactly by the book, at the age of 16. The doctors shake their heads and go on with the next patient. It happens.
Another relative had tongue cancer and she made it through, but they've mistaken the radiation dose and so she lost half of her tongue, not to mention a host of other health problems she had to deal with afterward.
So I take my right to not always believe that doctors can keep up with what they promise.

This is why I advised the OP to get informed and decide by herself. Nobody can take that responsibility except her.

a reply to: GetHyped
Except for breast cancer, where the success rate of chemo is about 41 %, the rest of them lies somewhere between 2% and 8%.
That means that at least 59% up to 98% of people seeking scientific treatment die. Really die, not "might result in death". Isn't that a reason to be hyped too?
I know that at the moment is the best option we have, but it must get us thinking at least a bit.

a reply to: WhiteHat

Except for breast cancer, where the success rate of chemo is about 41 %, the rest of them lies somewhere between 2% and 8%.

False. Hodgkin disease:
Stage 1 - 90% survival beyond 5 years
Stage 2- 90% survival
Stage 3 - 80% survival (this would be me)
Stage 4 -65% survival

a reply to: Phage

Sorry, I forgot Hodgkin. My relative who died had exactly that.
And I believe leukemia also has a good rate, but I couldn't find it.
There is still a really low rate of success if you think about it. That will make some people refuse the treatment, and I can understand them.
But as I said I would never advise someone to not take that chance, as low as it is.

ETA:
Wow, didn't know you had cancer and beat it. Good for you

a reply to: WhiteHat

Phage beat his cancer 28 years ago. I think it was 4 for me.

I understand how you feel and if you ever get cancer and choose an alternative treatment, I will be there for you as I would anyone else. I'm sure Phage will be as well.

I think we come into these threads because we have been through cancer and survived with chemo and radiation, and we want to reach out to those who have cancer and let them know. There are many people who read threads and do not comment, so there is always the possibility that someone or one of their loved ones is facing cancer and heard too many horror stories about traditional treatments and won't even consider chemo.

I myself was terrified by some stories and not knowing what to expect. I did know that there were tons of people who beat cancer with traditional medicine and had faith in my Doctors. I felt I was in goods hands and couldn't have asked for a better, more thorough and compassionate team. I realize there are no guarantees, but there are no guarantees for non-traditional methods as well.

It truly is a personal decision and I wish anyone fighting this battle all the best and am here with my love and prayers or good vibes or whatever may help see them through.

a reply to: WhiteHat

There is still a really low rate of success if you think about it. That will make some people refuse the treatment, and I can understand them.

We have to take some things into consideration. There are many people who absolutely refuse regular check ups, whether from fear or cost or whatever. Many wait until their chances are slim to none. There are also cancers that are just hard to beat. Numbers in the end don't mean a lot I guess. Everyone is different and how they respond to treatments are different.

a reply to: Night Star
That's exactly what I feel too. Being in and out of the pediatric oncology floor for more than a year I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly of chemotherapy in our most precious ones: the kids. I've seen them make it and I've seen them quietly disappear into the darkness. So there is no advise I could give anyone about what to do, I wouldn't dare having that on my conscience.
Only prayers and a ton of luck and good wishes for everybody.
ETA: congratulations on beating the cancer too, this is great news. Hope that OP feels encouraged and takes the right decision, the one that will lead to full recovery.