Downed Russian SU-24 black box first information

a reply to: DJW001

well i have been addressing your points. i specifically digressed because i didnt care to talk about that. you chose to respond to a tiny portion of my comment, that portion being mostly irrelevant. i dont care who you condemn. i really dont. im just sick of you twisting everything russia and assad do to make them look evil.

and also targeting anyone who happens to support them as they try to bring order to syria. and in that case subtily implying that that isnt even what they are doing. that they are simply attacking innocents. because that is what you make it sound like.

a reply to: DJW001

And Russia appreciates all the help it gets.

who says they need it. who says they weren't flying jets near the turks to provoke an attack.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: 23432

who cares where the jet was? ISIS can roam. Russian jets can roam too. where they fly is far besides the point. and especially since turkey is working with isis patrolling the Turkish border seems like a very good thing to do.


and im not really sure what you are saying. you are saying they are not there to fight isis, and this is true they arent. they are also fighting the so called FSA which after all ive seen is pretty much the same thing. both groups are destabilizing the region are they not. this whole thing started with a civil war. and guess who armed the rebel parties.

but you did not answer my question. like at all. what do you suggest happens. because its either airstrikes are carried out in hopes of defeating isis or letting isis take syria. there is no negotiating(atleast i dont think).

oh and what turkmen got bombed? there was no bombing of turks. russian jets were just patrolling and they were attacked.

Well the innocent on the ground does care where the jet was / is . Not everyone is DAESH in Syria .
Turks are decidedly NOT working with DAESH anymore then everyone else does , including Russia ; that is a piece of disinfo you have got which requires review and scrutiny.
Oh any DAESH member who wonders out of their area would get fired upon by those who are NOT DAESH .

Daesh members don't / can't roam ; they mount attacks . Clearly , this is an assumption you have which is too unrealistic .

Let me sum it for you ;

Syria refused to go along with Rothschild plans and got earmarked for dismembering by neocons+zionists in Pentagon.

There were a lot oppression going in on in Syria for a long time anyway and the neocons+zionist justified their plans by calling for an acceptable collateral damage policy.

It was originally thought that Asad would be gone far sooner ; no one really thought that the Russians would get this deep into supporting Asad , everyone did think that Putin would use the Syria situation for barganing purposes .

Putin however showed himself to be an outsider to Western Sphere by his actions in Georgia , Ukraine and now Syria .

What do I suggest happens ?

UN sends troops to Syria & Iraq and ENFORCE it .

That is my solution in the interim .

But I suspect this is not how it is going to go down and there will be some sort of War leading to destruction of most of Damascus .

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: 23432

Um so under your reasoning,I am to take it that if Mexico shoots down an American plane,then its okay for the US to shoot down a Canadian one? wth kind of reasoning is that? Just because someone is your ally,does not make you responsible for their actions. Unless you assured other partners of controlling them. WHICH THE US DID IN SYRIA. We were supposed to be letting all our ' allies' know who was flying where and at what time. Mistakes can be made,but guess what you do when one is made? You call up that countries leader and say "Oh my gosh! We accidentally shot your plane down.So so sorry about that" You don't go call NATO and lay out plans with them for 8 hours. Get real.

Turkey is and HAS been a huge violator of boundaries of its neighbors. Whine all you want about it,but Turkey has no complaints when it comes to others in its airspace. Make up my mind on this one,Turkey either has
1. Crappy GPS
2.Crappy pilots
or
3. a Crappy president
So which is it?

Yeah yeah we get it with you. Your all rah rah sis boom bah over Turkey.Great. No place like home,okay. But I am not going to believe my country's nonsense. So I sure am NOT going to believe your country's nonsense either..

Show sad pictures all you want,this is about the black box from the plane and what may be in it. Putin has not 'appointed' himself anything at all.He has done EXACTLY what any president worth his weight would have done for his country over this. All this stuff about Russia's economy? Pics or it didn't happen pal.

Any president worth his salt would order an inquiry into as to why his planes are bombing Turkmens in Syria .

Any president worth his salt would acknowledge the accusation of Vialation seriously and would do something about it unless if he was disengenius to begin with .

As we speak Russian population is talking about all these questions and the a famous Russian historian already announced Putin the be the guilty party from a get go .

You attempt to paint me as somewhat a nationalist ; I am anything but a Turkish nationalist , you are mistaken the outrage I feel about the some of ATS users echoing supremacist arguments as a nationlistic reaction.
It is not .

Turks & Greeks have a dispute in Aegean and as such the borders are not accepted by both parties . As a result what you call violations occur while Turks fly over international borders .

Dog fighting over Aegean is nothing new ; settle the dispute should Greece and Turkey do before and upmost .

You are rightfully sceptical about your Masonic Goverment , I would too if I were you and in fact untill this current government pretty much every Turkish Government was approved by Masons ; Erdogan is the only Leader in modern Turkish history to give two fingers to Masonic Lodges wishes in Turkey.

You could say that Erdogan has started a war against the masonic power in Turkey and If he succeds , USA is next .
Ironically , such a development would make you owe Erdogan one .

You do know Masonary were founded in Istanbul at 1700's and Erdogan was a mayor of Istanbul for a long time , right ?

1721 - 1826 A lodge whose name is lost, operated in Istanbul, somewhere near the Galata tower, during the reign of Osman III (1703 – 1730). The lodge was founded probably c. 1721 by Levantines (mainly) Genoese living in quarters near the tower.

Turkish Mason Connection


Tell me who your enemies are and I will tell you who you are says the proverb .

At least you should know that Erdogan is fighting against the " Invisible Dark Power " which is a plauqe on any government .

He is also fighting against the Banking & Judiciary elite to break the influence of the Masons .

Uh not really. Erdogan is propping up the economy with the bankers he chooses. How else are the buildings going up all around you getting financed so quickly.

You do know the international business community is very skeptical of the bubble forming right now right? Erdogan and Putin are two peas of a pod.

I could say Putin is cleaning up the bankers in his country too. Really he is just picking the ones who benifit him and getting rid of the ones who appose him. Just like Erdogan.accept in this case Erdogans building projects are setting up a huge real estate bubble.

a reply to: 23432

But I suspect this is not how it is going to go down and there will be some sort of War leading to destruction of most of Damascus .

That must be the first but if information you've ever posted that I agree with.

On a side note, this is directed at everyone not just yourself, but this thread has gone woefully off topic in the last few pages, myself included. The thread is about the black box and the Russian press briefing on it.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: DJW001

The Russian propaganda machine has already sown the seeds of the "Turkey is a criminal regime" meme.

I think the Turkish government done a bang up job all by themselves.

No more of a bang up job then any other country ; those who sit in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others .

or to put it more religously ; the innocent should throw the first stone , except there no innocent parties , including Russia.

Putin is busy wagging the dog , thats all.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: 23432

who cares where the jet was? ISIS can roam. Russian jets can roam too. where they fly is far besides the point. and especially since turkey is working with isis patrolling the Turkish border seems like a very good thing to do.


and im not really sure what you are saying. you are saying they are not there to fight isis, and this is true they arent. they are also fighting the so called FSA which after all ive seen is pretty much the same thing. both groups are destabilizing the region are they not. this whole thing started with a civil war. and guess who armed the rebel parties.

but you did not answer my question. like at all. what do you suggest happens. because its either airstrikes are carried out in hopes of defeating isis or letting isis take syria. there is no negotiating(atleast i dont think).

oh and what turkmen got bombed? there was no bombing of turks. russian jets were just patrolling and they were attacked.

Well the innocent on the ground does care where the jet was / is . Not everyone is DAESH in Syria .
Turks are decidedly NOT working with DAESH anymore then everyone else does , including Russia ; that is a piece of disinfo you have got which requires review and scrutiny.
Oh any DAESH member who wonders out of their area would get fired upon by those who are NOT DAESH .

Daesh members don't / can't roam ; they mount attacks . Clearly , this is an assumption you have which is too unrealistic .

Let me sum it for you ;

Syria refused to go along with Rothschild plans and got earmarked for dismembering by neocons+zionists in Pentagon.

There were a lot oppression going in on in Syria for a long time anyway and the neocons+zionist justified their plans by calling for an acceptable collateral damage policy.

It was originally thought that Asad would be gone far sooner ; no one really thought that the Russians would get this deep into supporting Asad , everyone did think that Putin would use the Syria situation for barganing purposes .

Putin however showed himself to be an outsider to Western Sphere by his actions in Georgia , Ukraine and now Syria .

What do I suggest happens ?

UN sends troops to Syria & Iraq and ENFORCE it .

That is my solution in the interim .

But I suspect this is not how it is going to go down and there will be some sort of War leading to destruction of most of Damascus .

You sir have no idea how the gurilla thing works. Daesh is already everywhere. Especially the mountains in Turkey. Do they have lines of soldiers like the revolutionary war? No. But they do understand tacticts. And they certainly roam everywhere.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: DJW001

The Russian propaganda machine has already sown the seeds of the "Turkey is a criminal regime" meme.

I think the Turkish government done a bang up job all by themselves.

No more of a bang up job then any other country ; those who sit in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others .

or to put it more religously ; the innocent should throw the first stone , except there no innocent parties , including Russia.

Putin is busy wagging the dog , thats all.

I never stated any other country was innocent, I was talking about my observations of your government that's all.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

But they are not trying to bring order to Syria. If Assad wanted to bring order to Syria, he would have resigned five years ago. Russia is pursuing its own goals, some of which require the situation there to be stabilized. Putin now realizes that Assad is a liability, and is willing to negotiate with Erdogan and the FSA because Erdogan has proven that he is worthy of respect. How is that demonizing anyone?

a reply to: 23432

what innocents? DAESH isnt working with turkey? you sure? ughh. geez man... i dont know how to talk to you.

you want to send troops? um why? serious question. what would that accomplish. you want them to seize air strikes and send Americans to die? because someone will die. and they might even loose. which is very very likely. they lost in iraq. they lost in afghanistan.

and there are troops on the ground. the syrian army. or did you forget. but troops cant magically defeat and army. airstrikes are used because they freaking work. theres no way around it. you cant just send men and women to die and expect them to win without artillery and air support.

like seriously dude what are you thinking.

originally posted by: luthier


Uh not really. Erdogan is propping up the economy with the bankers he chooses. How else are the buildings going up all around you getting financed so quickly.

Erdogan is using the muslim money that was scared off by Western spooks . Following the 9/11 USA has passed laws that allow law enforments agencies to confiscate muslims businessmen's wealth by a way of conspiracy between the Police [ Rome ] and Judiciary [ Jerusalem ] .

Muslim bankers & businessmen aren't stupid so they start looking for a safe haven for their oil riches .

Turks offered the safe environment and thus the boom in the economy while every one else is in austerity programs.


You do know the international business community is very skeptical of the bubble forming right now right? Erdogan and Putin are two peas of a pod.

Bubble is not going to be an issue by and large , 40 years ago when I was a young teen the population of Istanbul was 1.5 million and today it is 25 million . Turks are set to be reaching 100 million in next 25 years .
So no property bust is likely .
Erdogan have a vision which is about muslim world and Putin has a vision about orthodox World , inthat sense yes they are like peas in a pod .


I could say Putin is cleaning up the bankers in his country too. Really he is just picking the ones who benifit him and getting rid of the ones who appose him.

Putin has no choice of bringing up interest free banking like how it should be ; he would be bankrupt before he knew what hit him in other words he has not enough resources but plenty of guns .
While Erdogan has enough guns he also has cash money and vision to implement.
Usury no more and treasury to be accountable to every individual over the net .

Obviously the western powers that be are threatened by Erdogan's actions and paint him as someone who has dangerous ideas .


Yeah dangerous their pockets for sure .

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

But they are not trying to bring order to Syria. If Assad wanted to bring order to Syria, he would have resigned five years ago. Russia is pursuing its own goals, some of which require the situation there to be stabilized. Putin now realizes that Assad is a liability, and is willing to negotiate with Erdogan and the FSA because Erdogan has proven that he is worthy of respect. How is that demonizing anyone?

Thats not at all what's happening. The US did a complete about face not for Putin promises I guarantee you. He most likely had credible sharable intel and some of it may be about Turkey. He agreed to a transition and negotiation after the civil war or a cease fire. The Turkish plane incident is only a provocation it is inconsiquincial to any US Syria deal. He does not respect Erdogan. He brought in extra weapons to threaten him.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


You seem to be awfully sure that DAESH is "working with Turkey." I'm not going to challenge that belief because that is the sort of off topic nonsense that leads to people trolling people they fundamentally agree with.

originally posted by: luthier

You sir have no idea how the gurilla thing works. Daesh is already everywhere. Especially the mountains in Turkey. Do they have lines of soldiers like the revolutionary war? No. But they do understand tacticts. And they certainly roam everywhere.

DAESH doesn't roam anywhere in Syria but stay in their area except for an attack.

Mountains in Turkey are full of villager & Jandarma , I can assure you the few terrorists who hide in mountains are not DAESH but PKK Kurds .