Students practice calligraphy by writing "There is no god but Allah"

originally posted by: YouSir
I just found it ironic that so many who usually clamor on the side of separation would be advocating for it's inclusion in school curricula...

I'm not sure who exactly has been doing that but yes, if they're advocating some stance based on a double standard then that is disturbing.

I'm not sure when the concept of "Pro-Islamic Atheists" came about but I'd say that is one hell of an Oxymoron and it shouldn't exist.

But this is a great example of why there should be a separation at all times. It's not that I'm against religion overall, but you simply should never have it in a classroom or publicly funded setting in any form because it just pisses everyone off. There is always someone not happy about it or feels left out or something so the best thing to do is just leave it out.

a reply to: mOjOm

But as the rule goes as long as you include other religions also then it's allowed in a classroom. I don't like but that's the rule. I thought I was perfectly clear about it. Stop trying to spin this. I'm not pro-Islam or any other Religion for that matter.

And I repeat, or spin this as you wish to call it, that while this may be the rule, it does not stop a horde of Atheist and Pro-Islam members from tearing apart any other religious group that does this same thing.

If you are not one of them, then I am not referring to you, but as I also said, all you have to do is click on any thread that involves Christmas, the 10 Commandments, or any religion other then Islam, and you will see they have zero tolerance for anything they consider religious. Whether it is a Nativity scene, a Menorah, Santa Claus, or even Toy for Tots.

I repeat again, this pretense that it is no big deal, because the script involved Islam is nauseating.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ok, let me explain something to you real fast because I know what you're talking about but I don't think you see what's really happening.

There are some people who just love to rail against Christians, this is true, but the majority of what you're talking about isn't Anti-Christian and Pro-Islam. Not from the Atheist crowd anyway. The reason it seems like they attack Christianity the most is because when Christians rail against Islam and an Atheist sticks up for Islam against Christians it's most likely because they are trying to point out the double standard being used by the Christians.

If they're really an Atheist they aren't going to be Pro-Islam, that doesn't make any sense. However, since most Atheists are usually having to argue with Christians rather than Muslims it might seem like they are attacking only one side. They aren't. They're trying to point out the Hypocrisy of one religion attacking another religion and it just so happens that since here in the US it's usually Christians making all the noise that is who they usually argue with.

For example, here at ATS there are both Christians and Muslims and IMO there are far more antagonistic Christians than Muslims that I've met here. Which sort of motivates some atheists to target them more, myself included. It's not that they like Islam any more than other religions. It's just that in the US there are way more Christians pushing their dogma than there are Muslims.

Does that make sense???

a reply to: mOjOm
No it doesn't make send to me. They use hypocrisy to point out hypocrisy, and they take sides to make this point. Makes no sense to me. If they don't believe, or don't like all religions, then they are against all religions. I don't even care if they do prefer one religion over another. I feel they are allowed that choice. I would just respect them more ff they were being honest.

I have no problems with anyone practicing or not practicing a religion of choice. It just annoys me when one religion is allowed privileges that are not afforded equally to all religions.

The fact that they have had a long standing feud with one religion more than others, does not make it okay to me, for one religion to be targeted over others. That to me it is showing not only a preference, but they are indeed supporting one religion over another, whether it was their original intent or not.

"The quick red fox jumped over the lazy brown dog". Ah. Those were the days, my friend. Those were the days.

I love how people posting about how it's a non issue simply because it will not convert the children. The point is if your going to implement a rule regarding religion then apply it to all religions period. LOL you are the same people who lambasted a kid for wearing the American flag to school on the 5th of may and the same people who applauded the little clock making fraud kid lol i build microprocessors with playdoh oh did my clock making project totally look like a home made bomb!

seriously its as if people are walking around with blinders on and are only able to see when something is hypocritical to you but act like its no big deal to others. Its old and obviously you know your doing it so just say yeah someone messed up and move on with your day.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
It just annoys me when one religion is allowed privileges that are not afforded equally to all religions.

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. I know it's difficult because you're on the inside looking out rather than out looking in but there is a big difference.

Also, I want to say real quick that I'm speaking for myself only. I don't represent the view of all Atheists or anything and this is simply my perception of what is going on, others may disagree, even other Atheists.

But like you say above, how it annoys you that one religion is allowed privileges over others. Well, I'd say that should include things like "Only letting Christian Refugees in the country" or "Banning Muslims or shutting down Mosques". To me that sure seems like favoring Christianity over other Religions don't you think???

It's not that I'm saying it's not fair because I love Muslims so much or that I'm pro-Islam. But by arguing that Muslims should be allowed here just like Christians I'm trying to illustrate how it's Christians who are wanting special privileges over Muslims. I don't favor any of them at all. But my opposition to that argument is in an attempt to point out the double standard which might look like I'm favoring Islam over Christianity, but it's really not, believe me. If all religions vanished tomorrow it wouldn't bother me one bit.

a reply to: mOjOm

Well, I'd say that should include things like "Only letting Christian Refugees in the country" or "Banning Muslims or shutting down Mosques". To me that sure seems like favoring Christianity over other Religions don't you think???

As I truly have no fondness for any religion, I do not care nor am I interested in what God a person chooses as their own. I do care if those people feel that their God is instructing them to kill others, and I don't care who that God is, what name they call it, or what religion that person professes.

I do want anyone coming from a region were we are at war, and our enemy has sworn to bring that war to my doorstep, to be thoroughly vetted, before being graciously welcomed into our country. I don't care what box they check for their religion.

Does that mean that by being cautious we will be safe? Of course not, but just because a clogged pipe has caused the bathroom sink to overflow, doesn't mean I am going to turn on the water to they tub, because the floor is already wet.

I am not saying we should keep out people because of a professed religion. I say we should be careful who we let in period. As for the argument that there are already enough radical Islamist in our country to carry out a successful terrorist attack on American soil, I think that is all the more reason not to let in reinforcements.

That does not change how I feel about Atheist using their years old Hatfields vs the McCoys feud, to attack other religions, by pushing one religion, as a weapon. It makes the Atheist look dubious, it is unfair to the religion they are taking advantage of to make their point, and it cause unnecessary distrust and further division.

just teaching them to be good lil supporters so they can avoid this:

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

originally posted by: Rikku
am i missing something here? what is the problem?
i'm more suprised that caligraphy is taught in schools.

why would you be bothered that someone learned to write a popular muslim phrase?

Really? You revealed what you're about. And this is about freedom from that particular cult for all of our children, and this violates our constitution and laws, which aren't the hidden sharia the president is allowing in, by the way. THAT IS TREASON.

a reply to: mOjOm
I would have to fully agree with you.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

If I were in that class I'd be the smartalecky kid who would write in beautiful calligraphy... there is "no God ..

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
That does not change how I feel about Atheist using their years old Hatfields vs the McCoys feud, to attack other religions, by pushing one religion, as a weapon. It makes the Atheist look dubious, it is unfair to the religion they are taking advantage of to make their point, and it cause unnecessary distrust and further division.

That's still not exactly what I'm saying here. I also think you're missing the most important part too. All they're doing is redirecting those attacks back at the one who's starting them. Trying to show them, "Hey, this is BS and you need to stop throwing it at others because here is what it feels like and it's not doing anyone any good."

Nobody is taking advantage of anyone either and the idea is to stop the division but it's hard to get the attacker to realize what they're doing without getting defensive. But they wouldn't feel that way if they'd stop throwing sh*t in the first place.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TheBulk

I think the point is more of separation of church and State or they should allow them to also learn Calligraphy writing God is Love.

But if they had wrote God is Love FFR would be all over threatening letters of suits.

FFR = Fractional Flow Rate? Federal Funds Rate?

I'm ready to "throw the damn towel" on keeping up with acronyms. At least in the "olden days", people would define uncommon acronyms the first time around when writing or speaking. S...IFGU

a reply to: Rikku

That is a phrase that is used to convert to Islam is why they are upset. The teacher knew it and is unapologetic about it.

originally posted by: DrakeINFERNO
just teaching them to be good lil supporters so they can avoid this:

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Why didn't you post the entire passage so people can see it in context? You didn't even list the entire lines in passage 12, much less give a link so people can see what it's actually saying. Here's the full Surah, so people can read it for themselves.

Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal, Pickthall Translation

Besides, here's the Surah that tells us how to deal with kafir/disbelievers (kafiroon/kafirun is the plural form of kafir). It's short, so I'll list the entire Surah. That way, they can read it all in context.

Qur'an 109, Surah al-Kafirun ("The Disbelievers), Pickthall Translation

1. Say: O disbelievers!
2. I worship not that which ye worship;
3. Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Do you notice what I did? I told what translation I was using & gave links to the entire Surahs. Not so hard, huh? That way, people can both look it up for themselves and compare the wording with other translations if they choose to.

originally posted by: Rikku
am i missing something here? what is the problem?
i'm more suprised that caligraphy is taught in schools.

why would you be bothered that someone learned to write a popular muslim phrase?

well, lets start writing "In nomine Dei nostri Satanas Luciferi Excelsi" in schools too, to learn roman cursive.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

I'm sure we can agree.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
Yeah! Dirty stinking left winger hippies! Probably all smoke POT! Teach all them goddamn foreigners to SPEAK ENGLISH and write in goddamn AMERICAN! Yeah! Calligraphy that one CHIEF! I'm from ALLAH BAMA BEOTCH!!!:cheers

SARCASM)

Ahh yeah, nothing about the shahadah can be taken bad.

ISIS only use it you know, as their flag. Lets teach it in schools. Calligraphy yolo.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
They should write "Jesus is king"..
Now that will get a reaction.

Better yet, lets keep religion to schools that cater to religious students.

State funded schools, enforcing religion, is a forfeiture of the concept of the separation of religion and state.

originally posted by: Rikku

that I don't think this is an honest mistake.

its an irrelavent class project, that by all rights should be irrelevant to us all, yet some 'news' website deemed it important.
why do you think that newsite would promote this story?

So having students recite the islamic creed is nothing but an irrelevant thing, now.

There it is, that slipper slope. Canteens will be closing next year to support ramadan, and candies and treats handed out during Eid al-Fitr, just so everyone can enjoy the irrelevancy of religion.

*if something like that ever happens, I give up. but I may just hold my breath and not perish...