Why not hear about Islam from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the ME?

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: dawnstar
The Old Testament contained the law handed down for the Jews. That's the "other half" of which you speak and has no application to today's Christians except as history to help us understand the very big difference in the "old" ways of the Jews and the "new" ways of the Christ.

Actually, no, as I mentioned in another thread, recently,

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

And yes, that includes the OT, with not just its laws, but also its history, including all the God-ordained acts of mass brutality and slaughter perpetuated by the founders of that religion, the same religion that Jesus Christ followed.

See, there are many ways one can interpret a book.

The problem is not religion but corrupt people that want to spread their power and influence under whatever umbrella ideology that will snatch more followers to support them.

Like another poster said, you had people under the Christian umbrella committing unspeakable acts to spread their influence.
You have people under the Islam umbrella doing the same thing.

And last but not least, you have governments around the world doing the same dam thing.
In America, we use the umbrella ideology of spreading "Freedom and Democracy" to get everyone else to go along with it while the top elite reward themselves with the spoils.

The problem is not religion but warmongering and narcissist human beings that believe their way is the only way.

There are over 1 billion Muslims that are not at war with us, so I guess they are not true Muslims and do not like warmongering and narcissistic people.

Hey mobiusmale:

so you are a twisted circle? Forgive my joke about your screen name.

As to this:

Like many of you here on ATS, I also have Muslim friends, acquaintances and co-workers who have never caused me any harm. I am also not blind to what is going on around the world on a daily basis; and the great harm that has come to hundreds of thousands of people at the hands of those who say they are following the teachings of Islam.

Bolded, mine.
My point, being, much harm has come to many under the guise and label of no religion or ideology, whatsoever.
People harm each other every single day, with no ideology present, whatsoever. I think that bears pointing out, lest we jump on the Islam ideology, singly, is about harming human beings.
tetra

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl


I am genuinely sad that you have such a closed mind to what Christianity is at heart.

I do find it to be absolutely incorrect of you to say I haven't looked critically at my own religious texts.

Because I HAVE looked critically at my religion, I know what it actually SAYS. Not what others SAY it says.

No offense meant, but since your a Christian, you are going to have a bias toward it and support it just as Muslim would theirs, otherwise, you would not be a Christian.

It is not a religion thing though. It goes beyond religion because it is part of human nature to support that which is part of your life.

A crooked Wall Street Banker to us, is not going to see himself as crooked and will support his lifestyle, otherwise, he would no longer be in the business. They will rationalize their choices in order to stay. Right?

originally posted by: diggindirt

The simple truth is that you can't find in Christ's actual teachings in the Bible any exhortation to go and slaughter his enemies. You can't find any records of his leading angry men on killing sprees.

I will not mention the other forum..ahem, but there have been many threads started by Christian posters supporting violence and war in an attempt to counteract the "liberal peace" mantra and have backed up their "truth" with many verses. It goes back to using the bible or any ideology for that matter, political and so forth to support ones agenda and to draw in followers.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm pretty sure that ISIS is mostly just in Syria and Iraq. Sure there are a few attacks in other countries, but for the most part they are contained there. So your point here is moot.

Tell that to the families of the 220+ killed when ISIS shot down the Russian airliner in EGYPT!! and ISIS claimed responsibility!! link

Don't be obtuse trying to defend ISlam or comparing Islam extremists to Christians!! It is a very thin veil you are wearing and easy to see through!! ISIS is nowhere near contained!!

a reply to: diggindirt

but religion can also create goodness in people....
it like a two way highway, not a one way street. people get out of it what their heart desires....

a reply to: babloyi
And nothing you typed conflicts with what I typed. Christians view the OT as history, from which one can learn. Yes, the Christ was born a Jew but he created a whole new religious movement that was based on peace, love and forgiveness. His teaching reflects the vast difference between the God of the OT and the new way he presented to his followers as recorded in the first four books of the NT. In doing so he flipped off not only the Jewish leaders but the Romans as well. He didn't go to war with them nor did he urge his followers to cut the heads off of those who didn't follow him. In fact he said that he was there to bring peace rather than the sword. That's what made him so very radical in his time.

Are we to think that woman in this video is just lying about Muslims and the foundations of the religion? Wonder what would happen if someone created a Church of Charles Manson and tried to convince us all that it was a peaceful, nonviolent movement?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: diggindirt

but religion can also create goodness in people....
it like a two way highway, not a one way street. people get out of it what their heart desires....

I don't think religion creates goodness in people, it just brings it out in people. We all have goodness in our hearts somewhere. Mother Theresa wasn't good because she was religious but her religion let her goodness be her life's work.
Of course all religions have their share of evil people lurking within. That's the human condition. Most religions have moved beyond using violence as an outreach program for converts. That is what the woman in the video is trying to point out. She's doing it because she's seeing the vast amount of ignorance about the Muslim religion outside the ME. Political correctness invading the education system over the past three decades has left a whole generation with a skewed view of the religion that condones beating women, owning slaves and chopping off body parts. She is simply trying to educate people.

a reply to: diggindirt

Wait, are you talking about the Islamic or Christian religion with that last line?

a reply to: diggindirt

originally posted by: diggindirt
And nothing you typed conflicts with what I typed. Christians view the OT as history, from which one can learn. Yes, the Christ was born a Jew but he created a whole new religious movement

Did he? Jesus may have preached some stuff that according to some interpretations was contrary to some teachings derived from the OT according to some interpretations, but nowhere in any of Jesus's teachings is the advocation of a new religion, only always referring back to what came before. Nowhere in any of Jesus's teachings are any of the commands of slaughter the God of the OT put to question or put in any sort of bad light at all. Nowhere in any of the teachings of Jesus are any of the actions the major figures of the OT put into question or placed in any bad light at all (at the most Jesus claims to be...before Abraham?). Are you suggesting that the Biblical God suffered a schizophrenic episode either in the OT times or the NT time? Does the Biblical God change his mind?
Some examples that he doesn't: He required the human blood sacrifice to sate some twisted sense of "justice" before which humanity couldn't be forgiven. He's planning on sending Jesus back near the end times, when he will lead an army of angels and basically slaughter everyone who isn't a true Christian, so much so that every (remaining) person on earth will know loss, and then rule with an iron rod. Are we supposed to ignore all that because the founder hasn't perpetrated all that YET?

I don't think that counts as peace, love and forgiveness.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Well thanks for the long reply. but to keep it short and neat, my answer to you is that peaceful muslims do not pose a problem
and im not worried or resentful of those muslims, those who are radical does pose a problem and are the reason we discuss them.
Some people say not all muslims are bad, and they are right, but that is a diversion from the topic, wich IS the radicals.

a reply to: mobiusmale

So she insists that all Muslims are terrorists and must follow teachings that command them to kill none believers right? But it's evident that all Muslims are not doing this so she is obviously spouting rubbish.

There are going to be hard liners, extremists, moderates and progressives spanning all religions. You can't assume everyone takes the same from their 'holy book'. Look at the spectrum of beliefs within Christianity, supposedly all backed up by the teachings of The Bible.

I suspect the problem comes more from man using parts of these 'holy books' and pushing them for his own agenda (see US training, teaching and recruitment of Mujahideen against communism).

a reply to: babloyi

So you are asserting that Christianity is just an adjustment of Jewish theology? That Christ didn't establish a whole new religion based on peace, love and forgiveness? I'm more than a little baffled by that but since I don't intend to derail the thread further, I'll just say that we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.
I believe this woman is telling the truth as she knows it. Her words are almost identical to all the western women I've known who made the mistake of marrying into a religion about which they knew almost nothing.

a reply to: diggindirt

originally posted by: diggindirt
So you are asserting that Christianity is just an adjustment of Jewish theology? That Christ didn't establish a whole new religion based on peace, love and forgiveness?

I am just positing what Christ himself said and how he acted. He absolutely nowhere made any indication of his being a NEW religion, always that it was a continuation of the old. The idea of turning it into a new religion came afterwards from those who hijacked his teachings.
You say your initial point was that you were narrowing your focus to the transmitted history of the founders of the religions, and based off that, Islam is uniquely violent, and Christianity is not.
I was simply pointing out that Christ was a jew and followed the jewish faith and the jewish scripture and believed in the God of the OT, a figure who gave instructions of wholesale violence and destruction which were carried out by his people on earth, including Christ himself in his 2nd coming.
This either shows that your criteria (violence committed by founders as an indication of the violence of the religion) is either flawed in general, or correct, and applicable to the violence perpetrated by Christianity.

originally posted by: diggindirt
I believe this woman is telling the truth as she knows it. Her words are almost identical to all the western women I've known who made the mistake of marrying into a religion about which they knew almost nothing.

I think there have been loads of videos of women linked in this very thread that disprove that.

a reply to: diggindirt

"it brings out the goodness", okay, I'll buy that, but well, getting people to focus on that goodness, to manifest it, I would say that it also creates more goodness in them. just like someone can be musically inclined, but well, if that is nutured while they are young, and they work hard at it, and practice, well, they weren't born a great pianist, much of that greatness was created within them by the hours upon hours of practice.

Political correctness invading the education system over the past three decades has left a whole generation with a skewed view of the religion that condones beating women, owning slaves and chopping off body parts.

three decades huh?? are you just pulling this out of your hat or what?? My years of schooling was in the 60's and 70's, my kid's were in the 80's and 90's. I was active in their education (public) and well, I know what they were taught. it wasn't that far different than what I was taught, although, gee seeing that statement above, you would think that there was some kind of massive shift in the way the kids were being taught in that time...
there wasn't.

a reply to: dawnstar

Not to drift too far off topic but the education system in our Commonwealth changed dramatically in 1991 when Kentucky adopted the California system under the Kentucky Education Reform Act. That was the shift. Anyone in the system or employed in the system at that time can tell you that PC was inserted at that time. My youngest was in the system so I saw the changes. About the same time the big push at the university levels began as well. All this was cloaked in some vague notion of "accountability" and "outcome-based" education---and way too far away from this topic to expand on lest we get reprimands from the mods.

a reply to: babloyi
How on earth could a Youtube video disprove what my friends told me? My friends were telling lies about what they experienced? I suppose the one with scars to match her story of being beaten was just making it up to gain sympathy. And members of my own family are lying when they tell me what they witnessed whilst living in the ME?

a reply to: diggindirt

originally posted by: diggindirt
How on earth could a Youtube video disprove what my friends told me? My friends were telling lies about what they experienced? I suppose the one with scars to match her story of being beaten was just making it up to gain sympathy. And members of my own family are lying when they tell me what they witnessed whilst living in the ME?

Remember where you said in your post before that "I believe this woman is telling the truth because it is identical to people I know"? That is called relying on anecdotal evidence. I mentioned that there are loads of videos that have been provided in this thread alone that show the exact opposite, so the call to anecdotal evidence is not very useful in this regard. Thus your equivalence of "She is telling the truth because it matches with the people I personally have interacted with" is shown to be disproved.
A similar false equivalency could be "This woman was seriously hurt, are you saying that I am a liar?!"- i.e. calling to someone's emotions to elicit a specific response to a topic. I am sure you can see how it is also a false equivalence.

I hope this clears things up and you understand now what I mean!

a reply to: babloyi
Yes, I will always rely on what witnesses who have no reason to lie say in this regard. In addition, I will rely on my own experience of seeing for myself how Muslim men treat women. Or maybe my eyes were simply lying to me when that guy was beating his wife for dropping a load of laundry. I'm sure I just imagined that---it must have been mass hysteria because the entire neighborhood witnessed it---more than once.
So, by all means, go ahead and believe what msm and others who have agendas tell you. It's all good. Don't ever trust your lying eyes to deliver the truth.