Theocrat Cruz Indoctrinating Kids in Iowa

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Metallicus

Okay, fine. But, we are talking about little children living in Iowa where lots of grown-ups don't really research both sides of things.

Like I said, my two (now-grown) children were exposed to religious ideologies (note that is plural) - but raised secular.
There was no "atheism" involved at all.

They were taught to 'look it up' - just like my parents taught me to 'look it up.'

These kids are being brainwashed, and their parents are taking them for more brainwashing - just like they themselves received and never questioned. Not necessarily their fault, but to stop the cycle of ignorance and lies, we have to speak up when we see it being passed down the family system.

I completely wholeheartedly 100% disagree with everything you have to say here. It's not your business to interfere with what values a family raises their children with, or what family values are passed from one generation to the next. People who think like you would create a race of government-brainwashed sheep that wouldn't believe in anything that wasn't taught them by the state.

I say an emphatic NO to state-mandated moral and/or religious values.

Also in Christianity you can't be forced to accept Jesus. It's a choice that every individual has to make for themselves. As a child you may nod your head and recite something you are told by your parents - but in order to accept Jesus your heart has to be in the right place and you have to understand the meaning of the sacraments. Take for instance baptism - infant baptism doesn't work. An infant can't speak a language, let alone understand the meaning and consequences of a sacrament. Baptism only works when an adult who understands the meaning of it and truly loves Jesus in their heart decided to go through with it.

This is why every person who has grown up in a Christian household isn't automatically a Christian themselves. There are enough people in this country who have fallen away from Christian families to show that premise just isn't true.

Also Cruz isn't a theocrat. Nor does having an evangelical Christian as president doesn't turn our country into a theocracy. People saying this wouldn't know what a theocracy was unless they traveled to Syria or Saudi Arabia, and even then they might not figure it out until they were tied to a stake and given lashes.

originally posted by: peskyhumans
Also in Christianity you can't be forced to accept Jesus. It's a choice that every individual has to make for themselves. As a child you may nod your head and recite something you are told by your parents - but in order to accept Jesus your heart has to be in the right place and you have to understand the meaning of the sacraments. Take for instance baptism - infant baptism doesn't work. An infant can't speak a language, let alone understand the meaning and consequences of a sacrament. Baptism only works when an adult who understands the meaning of it and truly loves Jesus in their heart decided to go through with it.

Don't tell Catholics this. They'd disagree with you. I was baptized as a baby in the Catholic Church. Though you are currently telling other people how their faith works with this post. I thought it was up to families to tell their families these things, not for some guy on the internet to tell them?

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Buzzy please explain to me how a theocracy could be created here. I keep seeing claims about this but how does one actually come about? I mean its not like Cruz could change the Supreme Court in such a way that they would suddenly all agree with a theocratic agenda. Did you notice the Gay Marriage ruling this year? I am just curious because I have seen this claim several times but no one explains the actual process of arriving at a theocracy.

The president can change the court as justices retire. It's not a quick process, and it requires multiple administrations with similar agendas but the President has a big impact here. Worst case scenario the President and Congress get together and change the number of justices on the bench.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
He was speaking in a church to 15 or 20 kids taken there by the parents.
He did nothing wrong.

I disagree. Churches inviting politicians to speak could be indicative of that politician supporting a particular church. Atleast in the case of members of Congress I see that as wrong due to the First Amendment.

a reply to: VictoriaCromwell

What was moral about the Inquistion? Burning of women for witches? Native genocide? Burning of books? Backing and funding political parties? Even human sacrifice has been done in faith.

originally posted by: VictoriaCromwell
You are very correct, and it is frightening how many of these candidates are running off nothing more than their own religion, their faith.

Such as Colonel Sanders, he wants to institute a secular humanist theocracy. After all, he listed off his policy points when discussing religion and faith on the Jimmy Kimmel program. Frightening.

All morality is based in faith, never forget that, leftists.

no it isn't....rightie

Man am I getting this right? Ted Cruz is getting blasted for making jokes about Obama and lying to kids?
Good thing liberals never lie to kids or they'd have no leg to stand on.
Oh wait they might not...
7 Lies Liberals Tell young Americans

Anyways, if Clinton and Sanders weren't so stiff, I'm sure they'd like to tell a joke too.
Most Christians I know don't even want a Theocracy because it would be 1 flavor ruling the day out of thousands of different flavors.
Some of us would like to see things get a little more morally sound though. This Culture wars of the past half century have been devastating in a lot of ways I believe.
The agenda of normalizing abortion and perversion are not good paths for a country to take in my opinion.
Crap like this from Salon: I'm a Pedophile, but not a monster
I have no problem with a politician speaking about and engaging in their faith. It is who they are. You can not separate it from their person.
I would definitely vote for a self-proclaimed Christian than a self-proclaimed atheist/muslim/what have you.
And if I ever have kids, I would tell my kids to look up to a great man/statesman like Ted Cruz.
If this is all the left has for ammo, they are screwed.
Cruz/Gowdy 2016!!

It is shocking!

How so many ignorant people here seem not to know the actual definition of theocrat and theocracy.

originally posted by: harvestdog
Man am I getting this right? Ted Cruz is getting blasted for making jokes about Obama and lying to kids?
Good thing liberals never lie to kids or they'd have no leg to stand on.
Oh wait they might not...
7 Lies Liberals Tell young Americans

That whole link is a partisan hack piece. It's literally a list of strawmans that Townhall made up so they can dismantle them. No intelligent and well meaning Liberal would tell their children that. The fact that you lead with this piece of intellectual garbage is really telling about the rest of your post.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

And this article is based off an opinion piece from a political hack website.
Fair game buddy.
And that bit about intelligent and liberal sounds like a joke that would come right out of Cruz' mouth.

originally posted by: harvestdog
a reply to: Krazysh0t

And this article is based off an opinion piece from a political hack website.
Fair game buddy.
And that bit about intelligent and liberal sounds like a joke that would come right out of Cruz' mouth.

I'm not going to lie. The article in the OP IS a partisan hack piece, but at least it isn't presenting any strawmans as truth to attack. That event ACTUALLY happened and Ted Cruz ACTUALLY said those things. You may not like the liberal interpretation of those events, but at no time did the writer of that article present any logical fallacies while reporting what he did. Your article is just straight up trash. No truth whatsoever in it. It was designed to get a bunch of back pats from ignorant conservatives instead of actually pointing out real things that Liberals are saying to their kids.

PS: It's funny that you say that being liberal and intelligent is funny sounding to you, though I wonder if you are one of the conservatives who like to call universities liberal indoctrination centers. I sure hope not because then your partisan rhetoric would be in conflict.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: peskyhumans
Also in Christianity you can't be forced to accept Jesus. It's a choice that every individual has to make for themselves. As a child you may nod your head and recite something you are told by your parents - but in order to accept Jesus your heart has to be in the right place and you have to understand the meaning of the sacraments. Take for instance baptism - infant baptism doesn't work. An infant can't speak a language, let alone understand the meaning and consequences of a sacrament. Baptism only works when an adult who understands the meaning of it and truly loves Jesus in their heart decided to go through with it.

Don't tell Catholics this. They'd disagree with you. I was baptized as a baby in the Catholic Church. Though you are currently telling other people how their faith works with this post. I thought it was up to families to tell their families these things, not for some guy on the internet to tell them?

So you are a Catholic then? Here I thought religion had stung you as a child and you have hated it ever since.

Because you realize that in order to disagree in this instance you are turning your back on your avowed atheism/agnosticism and claiming that because you parents made you Catholic it must ever be so despite what you believe.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: peskyhumans
Also in Christianity you can't be forced to accept Jesus. It's a choice that every individual has to make for themselves. As a child you may nod your head and recite something you are told by your parents - but in order to accept Jesus your heart has to be in the right place and you have to understand the meaning of the sacraments. Take for instance baptism - infant baptism doesn't work. An infant can't speak a language, let alone understand the meaning and consequences of a sacrament. Baptism only works when an adult who understands the meaning of it and truly loves Jesus in their heart decided to go through with it.

Don't tell Catholics this. They'd disagree with you. I was baptized as a baby in the Catholic Church. Though you are currently telling other people how their faith works with this post. I thought it was up to families to tell their families these things, not for some guy on the internet to tell them?

So you are a Catholic then? Here I thought religion had stung you as a child and you have hated it ever since.

Did you not read the words I typed in your desire to try to snipe me? I SAID that Catholics baptize their children. I've also said many times on these boards that I am an ex-Catholic. So putting two and two together, I was baptized as a baby. That is a part of my past that I cannot deny. It actually happened to me. That doesn't make me a Catholic now though (well many Catholics may disagree with me there, but I could care less about their opinion on the matter).

Are you trying to seriously push the narrative that once you leave a religion, you don't know how it works anymore?

Because you realize that in order to disagree in this instance you are turning your back on your avowed atheism/agnosticism and claiming that because you parents made you Catholic it must ever be so despite what you believe.

I am well aware of the Catholic idea that there is no such thing as an ex-Catholic and all ex-Catholics are really lapsed Catholics. It's bull#.

The longer this process (primary season) the less I like Cruz. I really can't stand him. He's a horrible man not fit for the presidency.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Are you kidding me? The gathering took place in a coffee shop, yet the article title is "I Went to Church With Ted Cruz: He is Building an Army of Young Christian Voters in Iowa".
It's presented like he's preaching to kids, but I didn't see any of the Religious stuff inferred in the article.
It said 15-20 kids from a Christian School went for a civics lesson.
The author of the article uses imagery of church on Sunday in reference to them seated at his feet.
Is that a fact, or were the kids just told to sit on the ground in the front?
Weak article, in the OP.
Poor playing by me.
Good day.

a reply to: harvestdog

No I'm not kidding. Did you not read these words in my post?

I'm not going to lie. The article in the OP IS a partisan hack piece

See. I admitted that it is a partisan hack piece. The information presented in the article still happened though.

a reply to: peskyhumans

Thanks for sharing your opinion and feelings. I appreciate it.

Also Cruz isn't a theocrat.

Yes, he is.

Nor does having an evangelical Christian as president doesn't turn our country into a theocracy.

Yes, it will.

a reply to: harvestdog

And this article is based off an opinion piece from a political hack website.

No. Incorrect.

The author is an anthropoligist and has followed the Iowa caucuses for the last two presidential election cycles. He is a journalist and has reported what he witnessed.

a reply to: peskyhumans
This is a vid of Cruz saying that he is a theocrat:

a reply to: jimmyx

Oh how exciting! Perhaps you will now enlighten me as to what system of morality is backed by anything other than faith.

Whether that is faith in an atheistic system of ethics, a god, a philosophy, or even just a personal feeling of what is right and wrong, you tell me who can back moral questions with other than because I say so.

Or perhaps has there been some scientific proof of a morality that transcends mere existentialism?

Everyone on this planet (even the bleeding nihilists, believing in nothing is still believing in something) has a faith, a religion, whether or not it involves a god is besides the point.

Congratulations, friend.