Air Force looking at buying 72 4th Gen fighters

a reply to: spy66

Yes and no. They have improved both the AMRAAM and AIM-9 a great deal over what were in use in the 90s, but they put their stock in upgrades instead of a clean sheet missile like they should have.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I know. I've been worried about it too.

Almost all of our kits, whether Army/Navy/Air Force/nuclear weapons, is pretty old. It ought to have been PAINFULLY clear the 'strategic holiday' was over in 2008 with the Russo-Georgian War.

Wasn't it Gates in the end who killed the Raptor though? I know Rummy was against it, but it kept going past Rummy's tenure. ...

a reply to: anzha

Gates ultimately pulled the trigger, ironically because of the F-35, but Rumsfeld set things up with Moseley and SecAF being removed. They were the biggest and most vocal supporters.

The biggest difference that I highlighted in that thread is that while the AF was buying nothing, the Air branch of the Navy at least was in much better shape. At that point both the F-15 and -16 were in their 20s on average, while the Navy was still buying the Rhino, which put their fleet at less than 14 on average.

a reply to: Zaphod58

How old is the youngest strike eagle?

a reply to: anzha

Fourteenish. Production ran through 2001.

And what do they suppose they are going to buy them with ? shirt buttons?

a reply to: scubagravy

That's one thing that drives me nuts. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. They're not sure they can afford the F-35, so they're going to buy these to make sure, thus taking money from the F-35 and guaranteeing they can't afford it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

They'll find the money Zaph, they always do

Using Wiki prices for the f22, f35, and f16: 8 f16s for one f22, 6 f16s for one f35. and all have about the same top speed. Heck, buy f16s, fire and forget. with that smart autopilot that can actually take 9 gs, its a new world of air combat out there...

The reason is, colonels want stars, stars want more stars, and they all want cushy civvy jobs in the defense industry.

So they don't make waves. Last one to make waves was Robin Olds

a reply to: seagull

And all of them came up through the Academy flying fighters. So why would they? They all agree with CSAF. If it ain't a fighter, we don't need it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

IIRC, an F-15E has a max payload of 23k lbs vs the F-35 with 18K lbs.

You could squint and see a need for more Es, but they ought to have just continued rather than restart now. The restart will deliver too late and divert money from the -35 and the Sixth Gen. Or even the Missile Truck Stealthy UCAV. Good grief.

TEH STOOPID! IT BURNS!

a reply to: anzha

I've been screaming about the stupid for years.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Sounds like this would explain why recon assets have been realigned under NRO.

a reply to: Northernhollow

The NRO budget is classified so no one knows what's operating.

F-15s and F-16s are now expected to serve until 2045, when an all-new aircraft will be ready...

All new aircraft have been ready. They're called F-22s and F-35s. But because of the Air Force's horrific acquisitions process, combined with BS politics, stupid courses of avenue like this one have to be considered.

The service is looking at a three-tier force, with 300 F-16s and some F-15s being modernized “to augment the F-35 and F-22 in a high-end fight” and others assigned to low-end operations... Although “the last time we looked, this was more expensive than buying F-35s in bulk,” the senior leader says, the issue is being re-examined.

"We don't know if we can afford all these F-35s right now, so we are going to go to our back up plan that costs even more money." Sound logic.

a reply to: justwanttofly

Yes, but neither will do what THAT all new aircraft will be able to do.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Exactly.

The fighter mafia is as alive today as it's ever been.

But, seemingly, they can't even get that right... WTF, people?

a reply to: seagull

The only thing they've gotten right in this ridiculous idea is buying more E models to fly as Weasels with the NGJ. We need more proper Weasels. The current fleet is single seat Vipers. To do it right you need a two seat platform.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Very true, it just seems highly ironic to me that they're trying to kick the can down the road when that's one of the reasons they got in this dilemma in the first place. Do they think they'll be able to just buy as many 6th gen fighters as they want?