Air Force looking at buying 72 4th Gen fighters

Are the production lines for the F-15/16 still open and if so are they tooled for the late gen models or is it just the export versions?

Re-opening production isnt cheap...

a reply to: Pyle

Both won't close until sometime around 2018. The Viper line is still producing Block 50/52s, which is the US standard. The Eagle line is focusing on foreign variants of the E, but the same line can produce C models too without any retooling.

a reply to: justwanttofly

Oh god no. They'll screw that up too.

Don't you think USAF want new F15 because LRS-B will take the same mission of the F-35 ? If the Lrs-b is very capable it make a reason to buy bomber instead of F-35 it will have global range in the Pacific theater where F-35 can't. But for the air/air role the last F-15 version are still at the top.

a reply to: darksidius

That's like saying they want new fighters because the B-2 took the mission of the F-15E. They're not the same.

Im a heavy guy... but all the cute little lawn darts wont be worth squat without tanker to drag them over they ocean, and cargo haulers to keep the parts, beans, bullets, and bombs coming..

But heck everyone here can see it, idiots in the puzzle palace cant see beyond the end of their own awesomeness...

God I hope I am retired before we hit the next big one, if we cant keep the logistics straight we are straight up fubared.

a reply to: seagull

The real reason is the Dunning–Kruger effect.

Running an Airforce is hard.

a reply to: C0bzz

Once again I'll put first hand experience against your book learning. Yes, you'll tell me all about how your books tell you this or that, but I spent thirty years watching as programs were run into the ground, corruption killed others, all while fighter programs got priority. Other programs got funding when they got to the point they had to have it, or face grounding.

A huge deal was made when an AMC commander was made CSAF because every prior office holder had been through fighters, and almost all of them after have been through fighters again. Several of the programs now scraping the barrel for funding could have been done years ago before we reached this point, but would have required programs like the F-22 be slowed or delayed.

The leadership lied, this is documented, about all the capabilities of the F-22 to ensure it received priority funding. They've done the same with the F-35 to protect its funding. Now look where we are.

They're planning to retire 7 AWACS because they need to strip them for parts to keep the rest of them flying. They had a program that would have rolled the E-3 and E-8 into one and let it get out of control until they decided to kill it. Now they can't even write an RFP that let's them get Milestone A approval to replace the JSTARS.

Yes, running an air force is hard. But I've sat here for decades and watched them make bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, related to getting that cushy job after retirement, or because they wanted to help someone out by getting them a contract. Running an air force is even harder when you're corrupt and more worried about post retirement than the guys on the sharp end.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Zaph, ala my question the other day of whether taking away procurement would be a bad thing, maybe the we can have a smoother process and get our men and women the gear they deserve

a reply to: C0bzz

Practical experience in the work place at any reasonable level of management, or even at the bottom, allows one to see corruption in the process when it exists.

I don't know anything about the tech involved, I freely admit that. It doesn't mean I can't identify corruption in the process when I see it.

There is no excuse--not one--for the Air Force to not have enough tankers, and other support aircraft to do their job.

The Air Force puts stars on the shoulders of these men and women because it is thought that they know how to do their jobs...but when it begins to look like the job is securing another cushy defense contractors gig, it's time to remove them with bias.

I begin to see that the Navy is suffering from this as well, with staggering cost overruns in many projects.

It's only blindingly obvious when one begins to look.

I was in mid and upper level management in an international company...trust me when I say, I know corruption when I see it. "Gifts" given in exchange for a "good word" at the next meeting in Seattle. A really good hotel room when in Tokyo, with a little somethin' somethin' dressed all slinky waiting in the bedroom...not personal experience, just saw it in person.

Please don't pretend it doesn't happen in Pentagon procurement. I have many former, and present, military in my life, you don't think we talk about such things?

Accusing people of some sort of bias really isn't cool, y'know?

a reply to: Irishhaf

Oh, it'll still get there, but it'll be harder than it needs to be.

There's only one reason for this even happening, and that's corruption at both the military end, and the civilian end.

Congress, who should be watching all this with great disapproval, can come in for some blame in this. The voters as well. We, too, should be screaming to high heaven about this.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I had a flight of Vipers come through heading to Asia years ago. When they left one couldn't take fuel so they left him and a wingman behind. The Thunderbirds helped up out on their way home and got them fixed. They ended up getting a tanker and getting airborne 88 days after they were left behind.

a reply to: Bfirez

Yeah, I'm really thinking this would be a good thing. They certainly can't do any worse.

a reply to: Zaphod58

88 Days?! Was it a Pacific Island that they forgot about? I understand not having MX with you because its hard to cram a few MX in a fighter but man that is pretty crazy. For heavies we could get spec. on civilian airlines out the next day if we had a problem the CC couldnt fix without help.

a reply to: Pyle

They were repaired within 30, the rest of the time was waiting on a tanker because none were available.

Can anything actually be done about all this screwed up mismanagement, f'd up planning and corruption? If we've had to deal with the same **** for THIRTY+ YEARS then it seems to be entrenched in the mindset of the DOD. It's all a revolving door with one situation exacerbating the next. If we had procured newer aircraft during the lulls in the 90s and not mismanaged all these other programs we wouldn't be in the situation we have now with having a dozen plus MAJOR procurement and R&D programs in a 5-7 year span...it's nuts.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The US Air Force is now denying they are looking to buy 4th gen fighters.

a reply to: anzha

Right, because they've never denied they were going to do something before going out and doing it. Heh. I'll believe it when it doesn't happen with these idiots in charge.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Good grief... you sure that wasnt a FRED in disguise...

Reserve tanker wing I left last year has averaged over 1000 people a year deployed/lengthy TDY's all over the globe for over 10 years...

We need more tankers and many more cargo planes... they shut down the 141 way to soon in my uneducated opinion (know very little about the maintenance situation on them) C-17 has not picked up the slack the way the politicians/Generals claimed.