Muslim speaking out!

originally posted by: hammanderr
a reply to: Kapusta

Speaking out is not enough. Muslims living in the West have to do more.

We tried with the Organisation CAIR it was quickly labled a terrorist organisation and accused of sponsoring terrorism.

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

So much death. Why is death the answer for you?

How does that set you appart from them?

A differing solution needs to be in order. But what is the solution.

because death is the only thing they understand

When the powers of the world want their people to LIVE more than the Radical Islamists are willing to DIE, then we will see a change....

You cannot "bargain" with extremists, if there was another way it would have been done by now, Trust me the world leaders have tried to do everything BUT engage these monsters headon with force....

To suggest anything less than the annihilation of a faction of people that want you to submit or die, is a fairytale....

What makes us different? We have to do it to SAVE lives.......

Dont like that answer? Ask those dead in Paris how well negotiations are going

Post the events of Paris I do think more Muslims are speaking out. I have many Muslim friends mainly through sport and work, some of whom I have known for 10+ years and count as good, loyal friends and in some cases 'team mates' who I trust implicitly.

I've seen a lot of posts on Facebook recently denouncing such actions and the local mosque doing likewise
www.makkahmasjid.co.uk...

I share these sentiments to hopefully spread the word

a reply to: AMNicks

i haven't seen any action from peaceful loving Muslims towards their own community.

Perhaps you're not looking hard enough?

"Not in my name" - Muslims speak out against Paris attacks conducted in the name of Islam

Think Muslims Haven’t Condemned ISIS? Think Again

Muslims Against ISIS Facebook Group

Muslim Leaders Worldwide Condemn ISIS

Where was the Christian outrage for the following Terror Attacks carried out by Right Wing White Christians?

Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012. The virulent, neocon-fueled Islamophobia that has plagued post-9/11 America has not only posed a threat to Muslims, it has had deadly consequences for people of other faiths, including Sikhs. Sikhs are not Muslims; the traditional Sikh attire, including their turbans, is different from traditional Sunni, Shiite or Sufi attire. But to a racist, a bearded Sikh looks like a Muslim. Only four days after 9/11, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh immigrant from India who owned a gas station in Mesa, Arizona, was murdered by Frank Silva Roque, a racist who obviously mistook him for a Muslim.

The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009. Imagine that a physician had been the victim of an attempted assassination by an Islamic jihadist in 1993, and received numerous death threats from al-Qaeda after that, before being murdered by an al-Qaeda member. Neocons, Fox News and the Christian Right would have had a field day. A physician was the victim of a terrorist killing that day, but neither the terrorist nor the people who inflamed the terrorist were Muslims. Dr. George Tiller, who was shot and killed by anti-abortion terrorist Scott Roeder on May 31, 2009, was a victim of Christian Right terrorism, not al-Qaeda.

Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008. On July 27, 2008, Christian Right sympathizer Jim David Adkisson walked into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee during a children’s play and began shooting people at random. Two were killed, while seven others were injured but survived. Adkisson said he was motivated by a hatred of liberals, Democrats and gays, and he considered neocon Bernard Goldberg’s book, 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America, his political manifesto

The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994. To hear the Christian Right tell it, there is no such thing as Christian terrorism. Tell that to the victims of the Army of God, a loose network of radical Christianists with a long history of terrorist attacks on abortion providers. One Christian Right terrorist with ties to the Army of God was Paul Jennings Hill, who was executed by lethal injection on Sept. 3, 2003 for the murders of abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett. Hill shot both of them in cold blood and expressed no remorse whatsoever; he insisted he was doing’s God’s work and has been exalted as a martyr by the Army of God.

The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996. Paul Jennings Hill is hardly the only Christian terrorist who has been praised by the Army of God; that organization has also praised Eric Rudolph, who is serving life without parole for a long list of terrorist attacks committed in the name of Christianity. Rudolph is best known for carrying out the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta during the 1996 Summer Olympics—a blast that killed spectator Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others. Hawthorne wasn’t the only person Rudolph murdered: his bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama in 1998 caused the death of Robert Sanderson (a Birmingham police officer and part-time security guard) and caused nurse Emily Lyons to lose an eye.

The murder of Barnett Slepian byJames Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998. Like Paul Jennings Hill, Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder, James Charles Kopp is a radical Christian terrorist who has been exalted as a hero by the Army of God. On Oct. 23, 1998 Kopp fired a single shot into the Amherst, NY home of Barnett Slepian (a doctor who performed abortions), mortally wounding him. Slepian died an hour later. Kopp later claimed he only meant to wound Slepian, not kill him. But Judge Michael D'Amico of Erin County, NY said that the killing was clearly premeditated and sentenced Kopp to 25 years to life. Kopp is a suspect in other anti-abortion terrorist attacks, including the non-fatal shootings of three doctors in Canada, though it appears unlikely that Kopp will be extradited to Canada to face any charges.

Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994. Seldom has the term “Christian terrorist” been used in connection with John C. Salvi on AM talk radio or at Fox News, but it’s a term that easily applies to him. In 1994, the radical anti-abortionist and Army of God member attacked a Planned Parenthood clinic in Brookline, Massachusetts, shooting and killing receptionists Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols and wounding several others. Salvi was found dead in his prison cell in 1996, and his death was ruled a suicide. The Army of God has exalted Salvi as a Christian martyr and described Lowney and Nichols not as victims of domestic terrorism, but as infidels who got what they deserved. The Rev. Donald Spitz, a Christianist and Army of God supporter who is so extreme that even the radical anti-abortion group Operation Rescue disassociated itself from him, has praised Salvi as well.

Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995. Neocons and Republicans grow angry and uncomfortable whenever Timothy McVeigh is cited as an example of a non-Islamic terrorist. Pointing out that a non-Muslim white male carried out an attack as vicious and deadly as the Oklahoma City bombing doesn’t fit into their narrative that only Muslims and people of color are capable of carrying out terrorist attacks. Neocons will claim that bringing up McVeigh’s name during a discussion of terrorism is a “red herring” that distracts us from fighting radical Islamists, but that downplays the cruel, destructive nature of the attack.

Were all Christians tarnished as Terrorist when the aforementioned took place? No..... A priest/Vicar went on air stating it was not in the name of Christianity and the perpetrators were seen as nut jobs. So why are Muslims being tarnished with the same brush as the lunatics on the fringe of their religion. Are all Christians tarnished with the same brush as the lunatics at the Westboro Church? No, of course not and thus "What is good for the goose is good for the gander".

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: Kapusta

First.. when you notice radical and suspicious movement, ideas and actions in your neighbourhood. You should inform these to police. This is the way you really show that you are against radicalism and fundamentalism.

See no evil ( like watching through the tube ) hear no evil ( like listening through the tube) when refusing to see and hear the obvious and shutting them away from your mind, does not make good to your society, does not make good for you if you really appreaciate the peace and harmony, or to others who might be around you.

It is not about race and being alert is not about being racists. Its a pure survival instinct. Islam is a religion and Muslim is a follower of Mohammed.. Muslims are not a race.

Several times my local masjid has reported questionable people to the FBI. the result the FBI were NOT helpful to say the least....

a reply to: uncommitted

When was the last IRA attack that killed dozens of people? When was the last video posted online of the UDF beheading someone?

The scale of Islamic terrorism is very different than most of the Christian based extremists you mention. Of course, there is a whole plethora of geo-political influencers (many as a result of western foreign policy over the last century) that make Islamic extremism a larger scale issue.

But, when was the rhetoric related to the IRA or the UDF, etc. ever one of existential, un-ending warfare? The IRA wanted England out. Protestants and Catholics have had all kinds of issues but often it is contained to local areas / amongst each other. Westboro Baptist churche pickets funerals and what not, but last I checked they haven't brought down any planes full of homosexuals or non-believers...

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: flammadraco

Should we also speak out about US sponsored terrorism?

Yes, yes we should!

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: flammadraco

Should we also speak out about US sponsored terrorism?

Yes, yes we should!

Now we agree on something :p

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: Kapusta

First.. when you notice radical and suspicious movement, ideas and actions in your neighbourhood. You should inform these to police. This is the way you really show that you are against radicalism and fundamentalism.

See no evil ( like watching through the tube ) hear no evil ( like listening through the tube) when refusing to see and hear the obvious and shutting them away from your mind, does not make good to your society, does not make good for you if you really appreaciate the peace and harmony, or to others who might be around you.

It is not about race and being alert is not about being racists. Its a pure survival instinct. Islam is a religion and Muslim is a follower of Mohammed.. Muslims are not a race.

Several times my local masjid has reported questionable people to the FBI. the result the FBI were NOT helpful to say the least....

A lot of times, those people are actually informants who are trying to stir up trouble. There are some pretty detailed articles & reports online about them, and even some accounts from former informants themselves. My Dad & his mosque have dealt with the FBI on similar issues, too.

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: flammadraco

Should we also speak out about US sponsored terrorism?

And i thought this thread was about.. what you can do to make things better and finding peace among people. This has once again derailed to something else.. im looking forward how this in the end turns out to be.

a reply to: Kapusta

At least you have stated your concern. Its their shame if something happens when they ignored it. You have a pure conscience by doing it. It does matter.

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: uncommitted

When was the last IRA attack that killed dozens of people? When was the last video posted online of the UDF beheading someone?

The scale of Islamic terrorism is very different than most of the Christian based extremists you mention. Of course, there is a whole plethora of geo-political influencers (many as a result of western foreign policy over the last century) that make Islamic extremism a larger scale issue.

But, when was the rhetoric related to the IRA or the UDF, etc. ever one of existential, un-ending warfare? The IRA wanted England out. Protestants and Catholics have had all kinds of issues but often it is contained to local areas / amongst each other. Westboro Baptist churche pickets funerals and what not, but last I checked they haven't brought down any planes full of homosexuals or non-believers...

The last time the IRA killed dozens of people? Within the last 20 years, more recent if you count the 'real' IRA - but so what? What does that matter? If the groups I mentioned didn't (publicly) behead their victims does that make it not so bad then and not worth the same vitriol that people are seemingly demanding Muslims should show?

You seem to be pushing aside issues with terror groups associated (in their heads) with other religions as though they shouldn't be 'eradicated' like Muslims who are civilians should do to IS as the poster I was responding to said, why is that exactly?

originally posted by: dollukka

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: flammadraco

Should we also speak out about US sponsored terrorism?

And i thought this thread was about.. what you can do to make things better and finding peace among people. This has once again derailed to something else.. im looking forward how this in the end turns out to be.

Yeah your right. It is heading a bit south. But i did exspect that. I made my initial stance in the OP. Just wanted to make it clear that we are speaking out and so i provided a link. I am open to all sugestion even if that means discussing state sponsord terrorism.

a reply to: flammadraco

Thank you for your reply flammadraco,

thank you for the first 4 links you supplied me with, as the reinforced my previous understanding towards how the Muslim community have acted towards Extremism.

My name is Khidr Ali. I am a #Muslim. I condemn the #ParisAttack. Over 1.6 billion Muslims do. Please remember this. #Paris #parisattacks

Just to pick one at random, quite a hard hitting sentiment from a Muslim man. Although who is he addressing in the post? He isn't addressing his consistory, hes addressing me a Non-Muslim. As if to demoralize with "please remember this". I know not every Muslim is a terrorist the same as i know not every Catholic is a pedophile, or German is a Nazi but by placing pointless energy into posts such as these seems that he is targeting me as the enemy, targeting me to change views he believes me to have?

I could post many other quotes from the articles you have supplied but i don't want to repeat previous thoughts.

England has had a severe surge of extremism in Muslim Communities. I have been victim to this, as only several weeks ago i was verbally abused at night whilst walking through a Muslim dense section of my town by a Muslim teen. Although there was several other Muslims around, NOT ONE condemned what they heard, they simply turned a blind eye and one older man not with the teen began to laugh.

Extremism doesn't need to be a killer.

And before you Throw me more examples of Christian people who have murdered for their faith, let me show acknowledgement to your point. I know there has been Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists ETC. who have murdered (for their faith or not) but i know that if i seen or witnessed extremism within my community on any level, whether that is racism or gun fire i know i would identify and deal with it accordingly. Which is not happening on a majority scale in the Muslim Community.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

I've picked your post at random, so please don't take this as you being personally singled out.

I find it hard to believe the hypocrisy on ATS some times. Let me assume you are Christian (doesn't matter if you are or not, it's hypothetical) - did you 'eradicate' the IRA, the UDF or any other terrorist groups worldwide that use their various branches of the Christian faith as part of their pathetic attempts at justification? You obviously didn't, so why are you saying that the 'average 'Muslim on the street' should do what you didn't? There are terrorist groups that use such excuses for the majority of religions, and of course non-religions.

I dont believe in any religion but I do believe in god, but thats another topic. ANd yes we have eradicated alot of that bs. When was the last time you heard about the IRA gunning down 100s of innocent people in the name of Jesus?

a reply to: uncommitted

Well for starters, this thread is about radical Islam. Second, is the IRA in charge of a State or Nation that has laws based on a dogma that takes rights away from women, has extreme punishments (including capital punishment) for adultery, homosexuality, etc.?

The key difference, as I mentioned in my original analysis, is scale. Of course, I would agree there are a lot of other factors to consider that have caused this difference in scale (some of which I mentioned like western foreign policy and colonization), but also things like social media and technology.

Personally, I think a more accurate analogy instead of IRA to Christians, or KKK to Christians; would be Germans to NAZIs during WWII as Muslims to ISIS / Radical Islam now.

a reply to: AMNicks

Thanks for your response

But just to pick up on one point you made if I can;

Which is not happening on a majority scale in the Muslim Community.

Mother's plea to fleeing jihadist: How Muslim parents tried to turn son away from war then alerted the police when he defied them

Muslim families are begging anti-terror police to arrest their sons and prevent them from joining jihadists in Syria, says top Scotland Yard officer

What else can the community do? Calling the authorities on your own children must be very hard, not sure if you have children but if you do, how hard would it be for you to make that decision?

What else can Muslims do to appease everyone calling for them to do more?

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

I've picked your post at random, so please don't take this as you being personally singled out.

I find it hard to believe the hypocrisy on ATS some times. Let me assume you are Christian (doesn't matter if you are or not, it's hypothetical) - did you 'eradicate' the IRA, the UDF or any other terrorist groups worldwide that use their various branches of the Christian faith as part of their pathetic attempts at justification? You obviously didn't, so why are you saying that the 'average 'Muslim on the street' should do what you didn't? There are terrorist groups that use such excuses for the majority of religions, and of course non-religions.

I dont believe in any religion but I do believe in god, but thats another topic. ANd yes we have eradicated alot of that bs. When was the last time you heard about the IRA gunning down 100s of innocent people in the name of Jesus?

As far as I'm aware the killings were 'never in the name of Jesus' but they are an example of a terror group closely associated with a religion. 'We' didn't eradicate the terrorists, that means destroying them - that means killing them. It was through discussion, debate and compromised that the threat was lowered.

a reply to: Kapusta

The best thing to do would be to drop the 'Religion' altogether, this way you won't be put into the same group as the Terrorists committing these acts!

You would be able to walk around and just look like every other person instead of looking like a Religious person and have people attack you.

Why do you want to separate yourself from the rest?
Why do you guys prefer to pray when their are no women around? I read on ATS once that its because the guys didn't want to be looking at womens butts when praying... does that mean you prefer to be looking at mens butts??

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

So much death. Why is death the answer for you?

How does that set you appart from them?

A differing solution needs to be in order. But what is the solution.

i dont want anyone to die,..... But we can only take so much before we blow.. generation after generation of moderate Muslims have been terroized and brought down by extremists backed by Western arms and money because the moderate Muslims supported socialism during the cold war and the extremists were conveninetly used and backed by Western money and military to bring them downMuslims have had triedto eradicate the extremism, in the name of islam , and generation after generation has failed because they don't get intelligence, money, weapons, and logistical support from Western powers. In fact, we allowed the Kurds to get slaughtered by Saddam during the first gulf war after we told them to revolt against Saddam and then left them hanging with no support. .

Enough is enough.

Fixed it for ya.