Muslim speaking out!

a reply to: Kapusta

Protesting in a Sharia ruled land can carry a punishment no doubt , if it turns violent .

I respectfully disagree with you on that point.

Raif Badawi was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and ten years in prison in January after criticising Saudi Arabia's religious leaders in a blog post. An outspoken writer and poet, Badawi received 50 lashes in public outside a Jeddah mosque and was due to be given 50 per week until the sentence was complete. The authorities have postponed all subsequent thrashings, citing his health concerns. Badawi has received numerous awards for freedom of expression since he was jailed in 2012 including a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize. His case has provoked worldwide outcry.

Ali Mohammed al-Nimr was jailed after taking part in anti-government protests in the restive eastern province of Qatif in 2012. In 2015 he was sentenced to death on a variety of charges including banditry, for which the penalty is beheading and then crucifixion. Following a campaign by Reprieve, Nimr's case was raised by both France and the UN and Saudi Arabia was stripped of its lead role in the International Book Fair.

Can you explain just these two examples aforementioned as in both cases there was no violence and as such I stand by my original post

In Saudi, even teaching Islam that does not conform to the House of Saud's interpretation is often considered illegal and individuals are routinely prosecuted for it.

And again I blame a lot of our current issues in the West on Saudi Arabia being given free reign to promote Wahhabism view of Islam.

IMO Wahhabism is one of the worse sects of Islam and only 200 years old - it's a misguided creed that fosters intolerance, promotes simplistic theology, and restricts Islam's capacity for adaption to diverse and shifting circumstances.

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: Revolution9

I have addressed these questions many times on ATS. But now is not the time ,here in this thread. If you wish to message me any questions you may have . I'll be more then willing to answer them for you.

I would prefer it to be addressed here and in public. I do not use personal messages as I don't want to talk to anyone here without there being LOTS of witnesses relating to issues like these. The whole point of me being here is to communicate in the public eye.

I can not pressure you for a response of course.

I would just like to say that your silence regarding the questions I asked will not stand well with you here on this thread with certain people.

As a Christian women are my equal in every way in law and in my own perception. I do not consider it law for the state to execute or maim criminals. It is very barbaric to me. No problem with gay and transgender people in terms of lifestyle. We are liberal you see. I don't think a lot of Muslim people like us. They think we are devils for being like this. It is not just the violent extremists who think the West is a devil. There are millions of Muslims who think thoughts like these.

With these violent acts of extremism there are now millions and millions of Westerners who don't trust Islam and actually actively dislike it. Many U.S States are now refusing to accept Syrian refugees. I would say Islam needs to deal with this because all Islam is being tarred with the same brush.

I really did not want things to escalate like this. I would much rather have lived in peace. I am now very anxious.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

So much death. Why is death the answer for you?

How does that set you appart from them?

A differing solution needs to be in order. But what is the solution.

i dont want anyone to die,..... But we can only take so much before we blow.. generation after generation of Muslims have had their chance to eradicate the extremism, in the name of islam , and generation after generation has failed.

Enough is enough.

We must eradicate the ideology .
Eradicating thoes who act upon the ideology might not be the answer.

But i understand where you are coming from.

a reply to: Kapusta

I also want to reassure the members that they have every right to be mad and upset at these terrorist. They are pure evil scum. But please know that they are not of Islam, They are of something evil. They're actions take them way outside the folds of Islam.

so you say...if you ask "them terrorists"..it is you who is not a true muslim. Just today...I red an article where the leader of the attacks on Paris..states.."come join us in a fight against those who slaughter Muslims in Iraq".

This is how they see it. That their fight is just and vetted by God. You state otherwise.

I always bare in mind...that western converts and Muslims living in the west are overwhelming minority when it comes to Muslim population.

Sorry to say it...I just dont see you, a western convert, a representative of the muslim population. Your mind has developed in the west...you have grown with western values.

When I look at Islam..I look at countries that have the majority of Muslim population. It is...khm...my opinion...all those countries are hellholes...which in the end has to be a representation of a culture.

If you think I'm unfair in my assessment...please name a country that has a majorative muslim population...and that you would want to live there.

In the end I appreciate what you say...but are you truly representing ?

a reply to: flammadraco

I have no knowlege of these two incidences so i can't give you my opinion on them.

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: Kapusta



I follow the old Norse gods - Thor, Odin, Frey, and others. Would you be willing to let me live my life drinking Meade and ale, eating pork, etc?

As a Muslim sometimes I am baffled by these kinds of questions ...

As a general answer from me: I do not give a rat's behind what you do or eat or drink ...

I have my religion, you have yours (or don't).

a reply to: Kapusta

First.. when you notice radical and suspicious movement, ideas and actions in your neighbourhood. You should inform these to police. This is the way you really show that you are against radicalism and fundamentalism.

See no evil ( like watching through the tube ) hear no evil ( like listening through the tube) when refusing to see and hear the obvious and shutting them away from your mind, does not make good to your society, does not make good for you if you really appreaciate the peace and harmony, or to others who might be around you.

It is not about race and being alert is not about being racists. Its a pure survival instinct. Islam is a religion and Muslim is a follower of Mohammed.. Muslims are not a race.

Every time muslim extremists murder innocent people there is an immediate response by muslims, including obama, telling people to, "Be sensitive to the feelings of moderate muslims and not blame them for the actions of a few extremists..."

I can understand and accept the desire of non-violent people not wanting to be lumped in with terrorists. But here is the problem. I hear what you are saying, but what I also hear is, "Here are a whole bunch of muslims. A small percentage of them are terrorists, but we don't know which ones, so when we move in next door you have to be nice to us until after we try to kill you."

My response to that is, "There is a bunch of muslims. 'There' is where they should stay until you can identify and remove the terrorists. Then the rest are welcome here."

'Extreme' is the end of the scale. No one starts off beyond extreme then tones it down to become extreme. No one is born as an extremist. You can be borne into an environment that may lead you to extremism but you must pass through moderate on the way. ALL extremists pass through moderate on the way to extreme. The extremist of today was the moderate of yesterday. There is no single group of people on earth more capable of producing extremist muslims than a group of moderate muslims. This can not be denied.

Not every moderate becomes an extremist. We all know that. But we have no way of knowing who is who. With that in mind I maintain that it is better to err on the side of caution. If you want to call that profiling, thats fine with me. Profiling works. That is why agencies like the FBI have highly skilled well paid Profilers on their payroll. If I have to choose between hurt feelings and burying innocent men, women, and children, I choose to hurt some feelings. If someone hurts your feelings you can get over it and move on with your life. You cant move on with a life that has been taken.

I am sorry if my views offend you. I didn't start off with this perspective, I learned it from terrorists.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

And I've already noted many times here on ATS that Muslims are fighting them. Iraq's army & militias are mostly Muslims and they're fighting them. Iran's mostly Muslims & they're fighting them. Syria's army and government are mostly Muslims and they're fighting them. Hezbollah are mostly Muslims and they're fighting them. The Kurdish people are roughly 90% Sunni Muslims and their militias are fighting them. Egypt is doing military operations against them in Libya right now.

And one of the factions in Yemen that the Houthis are fighting is an ISIS branch there. And that doesn't even mention the other Muslims in Chad & Nigeria who are fighting against Boko Haram (like Nigeria's new President, who is a Muslim). Or the Somalian government who is fighting against Al-Shabaab. So why won't you & people like you give credit to the Muslims who are already physically opposing ISIS & the other extremst groups?

And demanding that we somehow completely "eradicate" a small cult in the 1.6 BILLION Muslims is as stupid as us demanding you eradicate the small percentage of Americans who do mass shootings. If it's so easy to stop terror attacks, bombings, and shootings, why can't Americans do that right here? Even after allocating trillions of dollars to our Deptarment of Homeland Security & the Department of Defense, we still can't even protect high schools, colleges, and movie theaters right here. But you expect impoverished Muslim countries like Sudan and Bangladesh to be able to stop a well funded & well armed extremist cult/cartel like ISIS?

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: flammadraco

I have no knowlege of these two incidences so i can't give you my opinion on them.

Another cop out answer.

So...do a tiny bit of research and then come back with an opinion (because he is presenting evidence that points things in a directly opposite direction to your previous remarks).

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Without knowing my personal history that was quite and assessment lol.

But you are correct these extremist view everyone else as disbelievers. That some how us muslims living in western lands are not true muslims. While we follow the quran and sunna they however are the ones doing things contrary to what islam teaches .

The website i linked goes into more debth about that.

I wouldn't mind living in Saudi Aribia its nice their . but my heart i left in Chechnya .

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: Revolution9

I have addressed these questions many times on ATS. But now is not the time ,here in this thread. If you wish to message me any questions you may have . I'll be more then willing to answer them for you.

That is a cop out for an answer. Is he supposed to spends hours scouring ATS to discover what you might have said in previous posts?

Besides which, this is a public forum, where more than just Revolution may be interested in your responses (myself included). Why does he have to private message you to get his answers? How about just answering right here, under the lights, in plain view, for everyone to read.

It doesn't take hours to sort through a user's posts. Anyone can check a user's posts & threads by clicking the little green torso under our profile pix (thanks to the kind people who showed me this). You can even send a message to a user by clicking on the "send message" link located in the same place.

As for the OP: Salaams, Kap. Stay strong, man. I was also getting pretty frustrated w/posting here, mostly because of the outright calls for genocides, nuclear attacks, and forced segregation against Muslims from some of the members here. I've fought against neo-Nazis & bigots my entire life, so I'm not surprised by some of the comments. But all it took was for a few posters to let me know they appreciated the details in my posts. And with that, I decided to keep pushing forward, no matter what.

So keep being a good example, no matter what. There will always be readers & lurkers here who'll take the time to research what we mention, even if the kneejerk crowd doesn't. But don't let the negativity stop you from reaching the people who pay attention to you. Because there are people here & in real life who'll listen to you that would never give my words a chance. So don't let Shaytan stop you from connecting with them.

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: flammadraco

I have no knowlege of these two incidences so i can't give you my opinion on them.

They have been well publicised in the West due to down right inhumane way these two chaps were dealt with. In fact so appalled was the British Government that they have now pulled out of a contract with the Saudi prison system.

Going back to your original question My question to you is what can we do to be heard ?

Speak out against the Saudi Arabian and other Religious State run governments and allow Religious Freedoms in these countries and not the state sponsored Wahhabism interpretation of Islam to be the one and only. That would be a good start!

The Christians went through something similar to this centuries ago between the Protestants and Catholics in the same way as Sunni and Shia are doing now. State sponsored religion is the root cause of many problems that Muslims now have to contend with and whilst the West fall over themselves trying to Brown Nose up to the Saudi's, nothing will change.

Over the past 3 days ive been engulfed in facebook posts and tweets, rightfully protecting and defending the Muslim religion. Many people (muslim or not) have created viral videos or comments that illustrate their anger towards anyone who gives a concern to the connection of ISIS and the Muslim community.

But this is what i haven't seen. i haven't seen any action from peaceful loving Muslims towards their own community. Instead of making me except extremism, turn towards your own consistory and identify extremism recruitment's, identify un-acceptable hatred towards the west, identify hate preachers who talk of war. Make sure children in your community don't become infected with devious thoughts of Islamic extremism!

Although we cannot blame all Muslims for extremism, i have not seen action within the Muslim community towards extremism. only the condemning the general concern that the west has.

FYI i am open minded and accepting to all, this IS NOT a dig or a persuasion towards hating of Muslims. I only worry that i have seen more pointless effort towards protecting their name rather than removing extremism from their community.

a reply to: Kapusta

I wouldn't mind living in Saudi Aribia its nice their . but my heart i left in Chechnya .

I guess I'm gonna take your word for it. Let me just state that...most if not all members of ATS would vomit on the idea of living in Saudi...I guess this is the difference between "us" and "you".

To you Saudi is "nice there"...to 99% of westerners...it's a disgusting hell hole.

a reply to: mobiusmale

To be honest its 6am in the morning. And any information pertaining to Islam has to be 100% accurate it takes time to translate it from arabic etc. I have no problems answering the questions and i am not trying to cop out of anything. I simply just not feeling up to it. I am tired my friend.

Its like even if i provide evedience to back what i say it might just fall on deff eyes.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Kapusta

I would like to tell you that we are Speaking out against terrorism and extremsim .

I am sorry but"speaking out" is not enough.. The "good Muslims" have been speaking out for decades defending islam.

its time to eradicate the bad ones before you go down with them..

I've picked your post at random, so please don't take this as you being personally singled out.

I find it hard to believe the hypocrisy on ATS some times. Let me assume you are Christian (doesn't matter if you are or not, it's hypothetical) - did you 'eradicate' the IRA, the UDF or any other terrorist groups worldwide that use their various branches of the Christian faith as part of their pathetic attempts at justification? You obviously didn't, so why are you saying that the 'average 'Muslim on the street' should do what you didn't? There are terrorist groups that use such excuses for the majority of religions, and of course non-religions.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Kapusta

I wouldn't mind living in Saudi Aribia its nice their . but my heart i left in Chechnya .

I guess I'm gonna take your word for it. Let me just state that...most if not all members of ATS would vomit on the idea of living in Saudi...I guess this is the difference between "us" and "you".

To you Saudi is "nice there"...to 99% of westerners...it's a disgusting hell hole.

Oh... Alrighty if you say so.

I was under the inpression that many westerners lived their working studying . they have good university's.

a reply to: Kapusta

Speaking out is not enough. Muslims living in the West have to do more.

a reply to: flammadraco

Should we also speak out about US sponsored terrorism?