The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: combatmaster
You call this 'weaponized Islam'.... this is a made up notion.

The idea is not made up, just a new term that was coined by me. Do some research on Operation Cyclone, where the US created and funded training centers in Pakistan, that focused on a newly intensely radicalized version of Islam, for the mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan.

The bread crumbs of ISIS lead back to the US's Operation Cyclone.

I see, shouldn't it therefore be called Weaponized 'fundamentalist Islam'?

Doesn't change the fact that Fundamentalist (extremist) Islam was here way before America existed, a historically documented fact... care to say who 'those' breadcrumbs lead back to?

God forbid

a reply to: combatmaster

All religions have fundamentalists extremist factions... what's the point?

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: IlTuoFratello

Censorship? How so?

By exclaiming that censorship will commence.

Do you think it's 'stupid' to call all Americans racists because the KKK are active there?

On one hand, no. I would call that ignorant, if it was made in a serious context and intent, but it would depend on the extent of the knowledge of the individual from which the statements are originating. On the other hand, yes. If the individual has a clear grasp on what racism means, what all Americans are, and who the KKK are, then the individual would indeed be exercising stupidity.

The question you pose is circumstantial and requires a knowledge of what the individual knows, and the individual's intents with making, stating and/or expressing and saying those sentiments.

If the individual is simply misinformed, or reacting out of emotion, then it would more wisely be a statement labeled of ignorance, or emotional impulse, respectively.

It's about stereotyping! KKK are Americans and they're racist so that means all Americans are racists right? Bad logic.

I never insisted upon, represented, nor supported that logic, and would agree, that at some level, at least within the logic that you are presenting, yes indeed, it is illogical.

Islamic State are Muslims and they're sick bastards so that means all Muslims are sick bastards right? Bad logic.

I agree. The logic is fallible. Again, I never made such statements. In fact, in my initial post, I explained exactly this.

ATS isn't trying to censor or suppress opinions.

Yes. In fact, it is.

It's saying it's cool to condemn Islamic State, KKK or any extremists on the planet without exhorting genocide, death camps or nuking populations.

Freedom from censorship is infringed upon when censorship of expression, speech and opinion of any form is censored. Good logic.

I don't disagree with your sentiments. I am against the world devolving into ubiquitously permeating extremism as well, but your logic regarding censorship is a fallacy and/or an outright deception, whether intentional or not.

Take it easy, Kandinsky.

a reply to: IlTuoFratello

If you want to call it "censorship" so that you feel better about yourself, pointing fingers and all, then fine, go ahead.

I prefer to call it a message from the ownership of a privately-held discussion venue that certain statements, such as "kill them all", will no longer be tolerated here.

If you're so opposed to that, then there are plenty of other places online where you can profess a desire for mass murder.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
The difference is the Christian's prophet said no such thing and never instructed any such thing. For Muslims', you could say that it's a core belief of their prophet.

There are a great many modern Christians who consider Moses to be a major prophet because of what's in Deuteronomy (among other things). And Deuteronomy, written by Moses, directs the Israelites to kill all those who believe in other Gods (chapter 17).

And in Acts 3:23, Peter attributes this to Jesus: "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people," referencing Old Testament directives to kill non-believers.

I don't understand the point you are making here.

Most Christians consider Moses a major prophet, but the don't follow the teachings of Moses, and all through the Bible, Jesus speak of events that will come in the future, he didn't teach go out and create them.

So I may be misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but I don't see how this relates at all to what #Freenrgy2 was saying about the core beliefs of Islam.

What SkepticOverlord is arguing here is nothing new. In fact it's a common argument in re to Islam.

What people need to realize is it doesn't take ISIS to push an anti-Islam agenda to actually bring it into being. Islam has proven itself to be a very contentious (to say the least) belief system. I won't bother to go through all of the details, but apply a little intellectual honesty with yourself and you can figure it out.

The misogyny, for one. Women are inferior to men in the Quran. Why aren't more western women speaking out about that?

Things like beheadings in Shari'ah law. Is that an acceptable form of law?

I live and work in Canada. A few years ago a muslim man I worked with at the time made a comment that I will never forget. It was November 11th, Remembrance Day. I had purchased a Remembrance poppy and was wearing it on my collar, and this fellow walked up to me and laughed and said, "Pfft. What's that for?". I knew that he had lived in Canada for many years, so I was surprised by his rather rude question.

Surely he knew what a poppy signified on this very solemn date in Canada? I replied, "It's for Remembrance Day. Haven't you ever bought a poppy to support the veterans?" He replied that he hadn't, and loudly and almost arrogantly asked "what I was remembering?" Now I was getting pissed off. I said, "I'm remembering the millions of people who DIED IN THE WARS. YOU KNOW?" And he still scoffed at me. At this point I was getting extremely hot under the collar, but I made one final comment, "You know, I have family who died in the wars. There are a lot of Canadians who lost family. You do realize they made great sacrifices for this country that we now get to enjoy living in??"

I left it at that, but the comments have left a mark in my mind for almost a decade now. There's just something not quite right about people who come into my country and crap all over one of the most sacred days our country has. You just don't do that.

I could go on, but my point is made. The concept that the strategy of ISIS is to "make us hate them" is preposterously simplistic and untrue. It is MUCH deeper than that.

"You’re All Being Stupid"

No. Ironically, the stupid thing is to deny the reality around us. Also, ironically SkepticOverlord, you're making comments about the quality of discussion on his site sinking, and I would argue it has sunk over the years, but for different reasons.

DENY IGNORANCE. Exactly. But the gap between those words and the action around them is widening.

a reply to: JRCrowley

presently I am listening to radio host Michael Savage....he is speaking about the imbecile/moronic president more than demeaning the stone-age ISIS/Daesh Caliphate Muslims... who have some sort of (over-my-head) Strategy that I am reacting wrongly to... at least in the eyes of the thread author


IS has successfully exported hate to French Muslims to act-on-their-own-volition ... except that little bit of refinement brought to the Parisian Muslims by the death dealer that had a Syrian passport who advised the group of moderate Muslims at 8 different venues of death to French-citizens

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You seem to have a fortified argument in regards to living on a Ranch or whatever (in fact my own situation is not far removed in Northern AZ) None the less I will Not support people whose belief systems are repressive, antiquated and anti Science. We fought for Centuries to be free of that and even now face a strong amount of it via the Republican party, I wont support the Christian right, I'm Jewish I wont support the Orthodox sect period not even the ones nice to my face nor will I support Islam.

In fact I wish I had the money to visit NY again more often, some days I seriously miss the Multicultural aspects, it's bland here (in response to prior posts) I am not against "multiculturalism" at all, I prefer Asian women honestly, I miss a more diverse night out for sure.

But how people can take "being Liberal or progressive" to an extreme to where they wish to aid people whose very beliefs would eliminate them or criminalize them is to me beyond comprehension, tolerance ends for me when if you are Gay you support people who want to kill Gays or if "like most of us" you are a bit of a writer and thinker and you start to support integration with people who would issue death threats over freedom of speech.

To me there is "self hatred" behind such a trend, a place of becoming "so human" you loose your natural instincts for survival.

Let me requote Salman

What will we risk our lives to defend? Can we unanimously concur that all the items in the preceding list — yes, even the short skirts and the dancing — are worth dying for? The fundamentalist believes that we believe in nothing. In his world-view, he has his absolute certainties, while we are sunk in sybaritic indulgences. To prove him wrong, we must first know that he is wrong. We must agree on what matters: kissing in public places, bacon sandwiches, disagreement, cutting-edge fashion, literature, generosity, water, a more equitable distribution of the world's resources, movies, music, freedom of thought, beauty, love.

My vehemence against religion comes from a simple thing... the above is how I like to live my life, Kissing in public, I do Love a damn good bacon sammich, wear what I like, read what I want, work for a living on things like Movies and Music, don't believe in God really certainly not the version of the texts and I Love a whole lot.

Damnit... these places being bombed are the the places where those of us who seem to be defending this #e would be hanging out. They aren't in the long run going to hit military targets or financial ones... what is disliked about the West is it's progressive future oriented sensibility, Modernity.

It's not about singling out Islam, it's religion in general. The Monos are organized and active in repression, Yes all of them to some degree or another and we shouldn't put up with it. We shouldn't import more...

Anyone who is actually progressive and not caught up in some trend of the day in regards to said topic matter should be asking themselves who actually "wants" this to happen and it seems obvious "someone" does because we keep bombing them and opening the doors...

I think when you look carefully enough you will find that it is the Far Right that is actually playing us for fools, people like the Koch brothers who desire stupid hard working people and don't want to pay much for workers, people from the Christian religious right who really have much less difficulty with a second intolerant religion improving their chances at the polls because in the end they share the same ideas as Islam, wrap up your women, kill the gays, war against the Marijuana's etc etc et al...

That's why I think this is going on and the best way to stop it IMHO is do NOT let more fundamentalists in and see their ilk loose the demographic not fall into a trap by which our humanity once again increases their grasp on our lives.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
So I may be misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but I don't see how this relates at all to what #Freenrgy2 was saying about the core beliefs of Islam.

He was saying that Christianity didn't teach followers to go out and kill non-believers. But it did.

NVM (Highly drunk)

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
I don't recall reading about Christians hiding behind women and children.

Then may I suggest you look into the "French Wars of Religion". In one incident up to 30,000 Christians killed other Christians - over religion. Catholics and Protestant Huguenots killings each other "in the name of God".

Radical Islam has no monopoly on hate and violence. A moderate Muslim no more has to apologize for ISIL than I have to apologize for a radical Christian bombing an abortion clinic.

originally posted by: Leonidas

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
I don't recall reading about Christians hiding behind women and children.

Then may I suggest you look into the "French Wars of Religion". In one incident up to 30,000 Christians killed other Christians - over religion. Catholics and Protestant Huguenots killings each other "in the name of God".

Radical Islam has no monopoly on hate and violence. A moderate Muslim no more has to apologize for ISIL than I have to apologize for a radical Christian bombing an abortion clinic.

Hear, hear.

a reply to: criticalhit

I agree that fanatacism has no place in modern day society, regardless of one's religious affiliation.

However, let's not kid ourselves. There is only one religion in the modern day era that breeds terrorism, and it has reared it's ugly head across the globe.

As for the subject matter of this thread, I think everyone on ATS is cognizant of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Muslims living in Western society are not seeking out to murder infadels in the name of Allah.

However, that doesn't change the unfortunate truth, which is that all terrorist acts are perpetrated by Islamic radicals.

It's not discriminatory to call it like it is.

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: criticalhit

However, that doesn't change the unfortunate truth, which is that all terrorist acts are perpetrated by Islamic radicals.

It's not discriminatory to call it like it is.

But that is not true. In the US and Europe the overwhelming majority of terrorist acts are white christians. If you want to call it like it is....then please do so.

It amazes me that I've been a part of ATS since its creation, yet now I'm not so sure of keeping a membership.

It disgusts me to be a part of a forum where ANYONE part of it is being called "stupid" by the owner of the site. Sure it might not be pointed at everyone being stupid, but the fact it is there is disturbing.

When does it begin where every single post is filtered through moderators and only allow site approved posts?

I thought this site was created for the people with their own opinions, and this shows that its goal is for the owners agenda, emotions, and beliefs.

That in itself is stupidity IMO

a reply to: JRCrowley

The misogyny, for one. Women are inferior to men in the Quran. Why aren't more western women speaking out about that?

Have you read the Bible?? and yes Islam need IMO a reformist movement like Christians did, but don't get it twisted I have heard fundamentalist Christians in the USA with an aim to take power calling for executions of gays.,if it wasn't for a piece of paper called the constitution and the Bill of rights we might very well be burning people alive today.

I live and work in Canada. A few years ago a muslim man I worked with at the time made a comment that I will never forget. It was November 11th, Remembrance Day. I had purchased a Remembrance poppy and was wearing it on my collar, and this fellow walked up to me and laughed and said, "Pfft. What's that for?". I knew that he had lived in Canada for many years, so I was surprised by his rather rude question.

The casket of Army Spc. Azhar Ali is carried by the Color Guard after a prayer services at the Masjid Al-Mamoor Jamaica Muslim Center, Friday, March 18, 2005 in the Queens borough of New York. Ali, 27, a Pakistani-American was killed Wednesday, March 2, in Baghdad when an explosive detonated near his vehicle. He was assigned to the National Guard's 1st Battalion, 69th Infantry Regiment in New York. (AP Photo/Ramin Talaie) | ASSOCIATED PRESS
www.huffingtonpost.com...
And yet your experience with the dude you have dealt with is nothing compared to this^guy who literally gave it his all.

I could go on, but my point is made. The concept that the strategy of ISIS is to "make us hate them" is preposterously simplistic and untrue. It is MUCH deeper than that.

No what is true is your failure to see that's exactly what ISIS wants, for when we hate them to a man the rest have no option but turn to them for protection the oldest trick in the book.

"You’re All Being Stupid"

No. Ironically, the stupid thing is to deny the reality around us.

No the stupid thing to do is to be myopic and fall into the trap of being divided.

What people dont say is that all pre-modern western religions make men superior to woman

The Bible is in fact worse that the Quran


The Quran doesn’t say anywhere to stone your children


Rape the heathen’s wives


The fact that the West has had a secular revolution and the Muslims less so, even though some Muslim countries are secular to a degree, is the ONLY difference here.

So compared to the ancient pre-modern Bible the Quran is progressive!


Also there are Jews and Christians who still, like many Muslims, practice and believe in pre-modern religion…even the Amish, some Quakers, Mormons and many more

Pre-modern religion Its NOT confined to Islam only

Have you ever seen the Hasidim in Brooklyn NY? Their woman look and dress like Muslim Woman.

Go to Israel and see those extreme Jews throw rocks at woman dressed in modern cloths

a reply to: SkepticOverlord



Braavvvo! This was a long time coming and ATS lately was becoming a hate filled cesspool of ignorance. I've seen posts openly calling for bombing Arab citizens to setting Syrian refuge camps on fire. ATS was becoming a hate site and it needed to end.

So I thank you for this thread and future action against such ugly stupidity. Job well done ATS

originally posted by: Leonidas

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
I don't recall reading about Christians hiding behind women and children.

Then may I suggest you look into the "French Wars of Religion". In one incident up to 30,000 Christians killed other Christians - over religion. Catholics and Protestant Huguenots killings each other "in the name of God".

Radical Islam has no monopoly on hate and violence. A moderate Muslim no more has to apologize for ISIL than I have to apologize for a radical Christian bombing an abortion clinic.

First , I will state I am not a Christian . I once was though, way back in the day .

Then may I suggest you look into the "French Wars of Religion". In one incident up to 30,000 Christians killed other Christians - over religion. Catholics and Protestant Huguenots killings each other "in the name of God".

Some groups have to learn lessons the hard way. And most of these events in history were not truly acted upon for religion , but for power.

Radical Islam has no monopoly on hate and violence. A moderate Muslim no more has to apologize for ISIL than I have to apologize for a radical Christian bombing an abortion clinic.

When a person , to quote , bombs an abortion clinic they are not radical Christians. Only radicals.They are self proclaimed "Christian" as is ISIS self proclaimed "Muslim" . And , no , moderate Muslims do not apologize for ISIS . They call them names so bad , they have no English translations. At least the families I know do.It is so bad that they will not go home to Iraq or Syria to visit relatives anymore.