Ten Commandments Monument Removed From Oklahoma Capitol Grounds

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

and who's the authority that says that they shouldn't count? If I chose to believe in a Goddess instead of a God that is my right according to the constitution. If I chose to believe in many Gods and Goddesses, that is also my choice to make. If I chose to believe that there is only my innerself, that is my choice to make. not yours, and not the gov'ts.
and neither you nor the gov't can say my belief is not valid or that it is of lower merit than any other.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Annee

Non religious often know more then the religious on the bible.
We gotta know thy enemy.

www.npr.org...


Kinda proves that once you have studied it in detail you dismiss it.

Why are Atheists and Agnostics better informed? The Los Angeles Times quotes one of the researchers who has a theory:

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Man don't tell the religious that. According to them, as soon as we leave the religion we forget all the tenants and dogma.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Annee

Non religious often know more then the religious on the bible.
We gotta know thy enemy.

www.npr.org...


Kinda proves that once you have studied it in detail you dismiss it.

Why are Atheists and Agnostics better informed? The Los Angeles Times quotes one of the researchers who has a theory:

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Man don't tell the religious that. According to them, as soon as we leave the religion we forget all the tenants and dogma.

I was 65 when I finally stepped completely out of the God Circle.

Can't say I didn't give it time and effort.

I now consider myself a Spiritual Atheist. I've had too many "paranormal" type experiences to deny there's something more going on. Just, no way do I think/believe it's a god in the religious sense.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

Who really cares about a few statues and a few chairs.

Probably no one.

Unless the statues and chairs represent one specific religion on government property, which is a violation of Church and State.

Other religions have been rejected to place a monument next to a Christian monument that's on government property. Its not just atheists.

If you are going to be intimidated and offended by a statue placed on the ground in a public space then I feel a little pity for you
I dont see how this impinges on your rights to live and enjoy life.
Nor do I see how a statue of bhapomet impinges on a Christians rights to live and enjoy life.

Fundys are all crazy

Its about Separation of Church and state.

You either understand it - - or you don't.

Was the Baphomet statue on government property?

And the fundamentalist demanded it gone
Your type are no better, it's the same thing, getting your knickers in a twist over nothing but pride.

FACT: this is a secular government.

God, representations of God belief, does not belong on government property.

You're the one trying to make it personal.

Fact: I dont care, I am not concerned about a statue, rock or writings on a plaque. Whoevers or wherevers.

You are the one ranting and carrying on, taking this as a personal victory and acting smug.

Seems this type of stuff is intolerant and abusive, what next? Physical violence?

Fundys in every spectrum.

Your not caring doesn't change fact.

Stating fact is not ranting.

Telling me I am taking it personally is ranting

So lets look at the facts

Someone set up a rock, statue, plaque whatever, it offended some poor atheists, caused them panic, fear, daily turmoil. So atheists demanded they take it down because they felt slighted a statue was put up. The statue intimidated them?

So another group comes along and puts up another statue that intimidates the people who put up the first statue, then the first statue people act like atheists and complain.

Maybe atheists should put up a Dawkins statue and you will all be winners, no losers

Do you not see all that is happening here is walls are being built, community is crumbling and hate and anger is being cultured.

You think this is a victory for atheism, its a victory for discord.

One day all religion might end and all those people who have swallowed their pride, done the Christian thing will change and become what they want to be. Then God help us.
Better they are subject to God and the bible than let loose

I pity the intolerant people who just cant live and let live

That's a fact

I read these comments and see a bunch of Christian atheists.

The smarmy we are better than Christians and we are all being persecuted because we are atheists.
Every attack on Christians made here is effectively an attack on your own insecurities.

Removing a statue creates disharmony and bitterness, seriously was it that confronting to your everyday lives.
Did it make you think horrible thoughts, did it challenge your hearts, spirits, minds.

and the Ten Commandments is Jewish anyway

Seriously can anyone give me a real reason it was so offensive

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

Who really cares about a few statues and a few chairs.

Probably no one.

Unless the statues and chairs represent one specific religion on government property, which is a violation of Church and State.

Other religions have been rejected to place a monument next to a Christian monument that's on government property. Its not just atheists.

If you are going to be intimidated and offended by a statue placed on the ground in a public space then I feel a little pity for you
I dont see how this impinges on your rights to live and enjoy life.
Nor do I see how a statue of bhapomet impinges on a Christians rights to live and enjoy life.

Fundys are all crazy

Its about Separation of Church and state.

You either understand it - - or you don't.

Was the Baphomet statue on government property?

And the fundamentalist demanded it gone
Your type are no better, it's the same thing, getting your knickers in a twist over nothing but pride.

FACT: this is a secular government.

God, representations of God belief, does not belong on government property.

You're the one trying to make it personal.

Fact: I dont care, I am not concerned about a statue, rock or writings on a plaque. Whoevers or wherevers.

You are the one ranting and carrying on, taking this as a personal victory and acting smug.

Seems this type of stuff is intolerant and abusive, what next? Physical violence?

Fundys in every spectrum.

Your not caring doesn't change fact.

Stating fact is not ranting.

Telling me I am taking it personally is ranting

So lets look at the facts

Someone set up a rock, statue, plaque whatever, it offended some poor atheists, caused them panic, fear, daily turmoil. So atheists demanded they take it down because they felt slighted a statue was put up. The statue intimidated them?

So another group comes along and puts up another statue that intimidates the people who put up the first statue, then the first statue people act like atheists and complain.

Maybe atheists should put up a Dawkins statue and you will all be winners, no losers

Do you not see all that is happening here is walls are being built, community is crumbling and hate and anger is being cultured.

You think this is a victory for atheism, its a victory for discord.

One day all religion might end and all those people who have swallowed their pride, done the Christian thing will change and become what they want to be. Then God help us.
Better they are subject to God and the bible than let loose

I pity the intolerant people who just cant live and let live

That's a fact

American Atheist Aims and Principles

American Atheists, Inc. is a nonprofit, nonpolitical, educational organization dedicated to the complete and absolute separation of state and church, accepting the explanation of Thomas Jefferson that the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States was meant to create a "wall of separation" between state and church.

atheists.org...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I read these comments and see a bunch of Christian atheists.

The smarmy we are better than Christians and we are all being persecuted because we are atheists.
Every attack on Christians made here is effectively an attack on your own insecurities.

"Your petitioners are atheists, and they define their lifestyle as follows. An atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment."

That case, Murray v. Curlett, was a landmark in American jurisprudence on behalf of our First Amendment rights. It began: atheists.org...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I read these comments and see a bunch of Christian atheists.

The smarmy we are better than Christians and we are all being persecuted because we are atheists.
Every attack on Christians made here is effectively an attack on your own insecurities.

Removing a statue creates disharmony and bitterness, seriously was it that confronting to your everyday lives.
Did it make you think horrible thoughts, did it challenge your hearts, spirits, minds.

and the Ten Commandments is Jewish anyway

Seriously can anyone give me a real reason it was so offensive

On the fifth page of discussion you seriously asked why statue promoting 'one' god is offensive?!

I was never in any organized religion, everything I've learned about religion was after I was 20, and tried to figure out what is religion and how do I fit/don't fit in there. Just a small note, my parents don't practice any religion, my kids are growing without it as well...

As I love to study history, and not being associated to any religion allowed me to see it for what really is - dark part of humans past. It is used and abused from first origins to this day.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You should read up on the definition of Separation of Church and State.

a reply to: Raggedyman

the rock is just a rock, it can't really offend anyone really. The motivation behind that rock being put where it was might be offensive but I am not equipped to speak of what that motivation might be. Personally, what I think some are finding offensive is how some christians are acting. Outside of the slaves who were forced here were any of them required to convert to christianity when they came. I don't believe they were, the jews, the muslims, the buddhists, the hindus, they were all seen mainly as cheap labor and were accepted for what they were...CHEAP LABOR, that was those who were making the decisions as far as immigration cared about really probably. And, the constitution gave them the same protections to practice their religion as any christian had and PREVENTED THE GOVERNMENT FROM EXALTING ONE ABOVE THE OTHER!
now, it seems that some of these christians want their religion exalted, in the eyes of the gov't above all others! Read the comments in this thread alone and you can sense some of their superiority complex. We are all free to worship any divine enity we wish, or none at all... as long as their worship harms no one else!

But, if a monument with the ten commandments can be placed on the site of a courthouse, then why should the wiccan creed also have the same right to be there also, why shouldn't the hindu philosophy have equal exposure?

If Catholic Hospitals can deny emergency medical care to a pregnant women thus putting her health at risk because their religious doctrine forbids abortion. If they don't even have to make a public statement that this is the type of care that a women will receive when a pregnant women allows herself to be admitted to that hospital to give birth. If they are going to allow her to lie suffering in pain till the heartbeat stops....allow her body to be overcome with infection.
well then, if their religious rights are that strongly held, then should the muslim have the right to practice honor killings?

it a catholic business can refuse to provide insurance coverage for birth control to their female patients because of their deeply held religious beliefs, then why is it that the jahova witnesses can't use their strongly held religious beliefs and refuse to cover blood transfusions on the same ground, something that the supreme court has already indicated in their hobby lobby ruling would be kind of doubtful to happen?

if a little court clerk is allowed to just refuse to do her job and issue marriage licenses to all those who are entitled to be married and use her supervisory power to prevent her deputies from doing it , then why can't the supervisor of a city's parks and recreation department refuse to allow his crews to cut the grass at those parks based on his belief that it causes the grass pain????

the government cannot hold one belief or belief system above any other, if they do so, then they are breaking that separation of church and state. And, I can't believe that it is christians that are asking the government to decide which beliefs should be protected and which shouldn't and seemingly oblivious to the fact that if this happens the government will eventually deciding the doctrine in their own church!

originally posted by: dawnstar
the rock is just a rock, it can't really offend anyone really.

I disagree, rock is not just rock. Rock is more then minerals that make it, it represent idea, message or artist's view. This rock however was religious message...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So lets look at the facts

Someone set up a rock, statue, plaque whatever, it offended some poor atheists, caused them panic, fear, daily turmoil. So atheists demanded they take it down because they felt slighted a statue was put up. The statue intimidated them?

Your "facts" are wrong. It was a Baptist minister who sued to have it removed.

The ACLU sued the commission on behalf of the Rev. Bruce Prescott of Norman, a Baptist minister, and others who alleged the monument’s location on the Capitol grounds violated the state constitution’s ban against using public property to support “any sect, church, denomination or system of religion.”

Source

Your RANT against atheists is highly misplaced.

Oh hum had you poor persecuted minority.
A statue has damaged your egos.
Church and state will only ever be separated when all the religious are dead

The sociologist Durkhiem would suggest your atheism is a religion, go find a cliff?

To harsh, you are no better than those you accuse, Dawkins is on your pedestal, trophied like a statue

I just can't believe you are all so precious over a stone, so alienated and persecuted

dawnstar, I am not above exalting one above the other as you suggest.
Just see the others catch up.
Soon atheist rock and tablets everywhere as well, they have churches now
:

a reply to: Raggedyman

Man, did an atheist punch your mother or something? Instead of ranting and raving about your mis-characterized stereotypes about atheists, how about sticking to the topic at hand?

Why does it make you so bitter that this "stone" as you call it was removed exactly? Do you think it is a good thing that OK displayed that at a government building?

Well the way atheists were here carrying on like it was their personal win, are you surprised I read the story wrong

So a Christian minister wants separation of church and state, you complaining? You should all be lauding this man, yet, you remain silent of his victory on your behalf

It's sad that this man carrys on about a rock in the same way I accused atheists of carrying on, my apologies

You can all return to your daily lives now, carrying the message of tolerance you cry out for, poor persecuted atheists that you are

Me, I don't feel persecuted, statues of anyone I can live with, even in public spaces.

a reply to: Raggedyman

The removal IS a good thing. But it has nothing to do with being or not being atheist. It's about Separation of Church and State. You brought the atheist argument into the thread. Not us.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Raggedyman

Man, did an atheist punch your mother or something? Instead of ranting and raving about your mis-characterized stereotypes about atheists, how about sticking to the topic at hand?

Why does it make you so bitter that this "stone" as you call it was removed exactly? Do you think it is a good thing that OK displayed that at a government building?

mAN Did you fall and hit your head so hard you impaired it's function?

I don't care about the rock, the stone, where it is
I am just sick of petty intolerance and your cry of persecution.

It's a rock in the ground, get over it, Christians as well.

Why does it burn you so much you want it gone, please answer that question sincerely

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Raggedyman

The removal IS a good thing. But it has nothing to do with being or not being atheist. It's about Separation of Church and State. You brought the atheist argument into the thread. Not us.

So removing the rock will separate church and state, cool got it

You da winner, logic like that

a reply to: Raggedyman

Because I care about the Constitution.

If this issue isn't important to you, why are you even in the thread commenting? To troll us?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Raggedyman

The removal IS a good thing. But it has nothing to do with being or not being atheist. It's about Separation of Church and State. You brought the atheist argument into the thread. Not us.

So removing the rock will separate church and state, cool got it

You da winner, logic like that

This is a troll post.