Here’s What The World Thinks About The American Response To The Oregon Massacre

a reply to: IslandOfMisfitToys

I don't really see your point. It's got nothing to do with medical drugs, every country has medical mental health issues. This issue has nothing to do with school shootings absolutely nothing. I wish people would stop using this red herring

a reply to: Kryties


I mentioned after I replied to you about toughening restrictions MAY help (I know you will say they WILL help, but I am trying to stay neutral).

I have also seen in your arguments that people are blurring the line on RESTRICTIONS and BANNING.

This is something that people really really need to sharpen on before arguing.

Or maybe, restriction is a form of banning in the eyes of others.


IMO having tougher paths to obtaining guns would do a lot to help to, as you said, keep them out of the hand of nutters!

a reply to: Sublimecraft

No offense but no wonder Hitler marched straight through Europe without batting an eye.......

That is......until the big bad Americans with guns came to save them........

a reply to: Kryties

Then your whole argument is ridiculous, any gun can kill just the same sorry, "high powered" ignorant. The guns available are semi automatic, there are restrictions in place and it's not going to go further. No one is going to take any Americans guns.

The guy would of killed with a 9mm, the guy would of made bombs, the guy would of stabbed ect. If you are hell bent on killing you will, for us we will address this in another way( social and psychological conditions) and the world can go pound sand, and shake their pretentious heads and make asinine comments. We don't give a # what you think,

thank you.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: IslandOfMisfitToys

I don't really see your point. It's got nothing to do with medical drugs, every country has medical mental health issues. This issue has nothing to do with school shootings absolutely nothing. I wish people would stop using this red herring

Do most of the prescription drugs advertising on the telie list suicide and thoughts of killing?

Ours do.

So don't tell me it's not an issue.

a reply to: IslandOfMisfitToys why can't you just accept school shootings as a part of life and stop blaming and making excuses. America is no more violent than any industrialised nation. The only glaring difference starring you in the face is access to guns, but you choose to look elsewhere for reasons. Just accept school shootings as a downside to freedom

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Ok. I've accepted it. Why can't YOU?

I still think all these poison pills have their fair share of blame too.

I also fully endorse nutters not having access to guns so I don't know where you're going with that.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Kryties

It's a mind-set thing. My American friends I stay with when over there like their guns, they have grown up with them and look at me as a weirdo when I tell them I have never owned one, only shot one a few times at a firing range and that I have no desire to own one.

That is the difference in my opinion - that and the 2nd amendment. Now, those same yank friends are very particular about gun etiquette - very particular, and that goes hand-in-hand with their mind-set about rights to own guns.

I have no problem with that, after all, I could go out tomorrow and fill-in the necessary paperwork and I too would own a gun (or 2) soon thereafter - after a background check.

So, when it comes to US citizens, their mindset is completely different because they desire gun ownership, lots of other people do not.

I have actually stated a few times in different threads that I like having a shot myself. I live on a farm in a rental and have been seriously considering applying for a license and buying myself a good hunting rifle to deal with the rabbits and foxes here. I am not annoyed that I have to jump through a few hoops to get a license, in fact I am glad those restrictions are in place as I feel safe in the knowledge that they have been proven to work and, for the most part, stop the nutters getting their hands on them.

What needs to happen in the US, again in my opinion, is a control mechanism to RESTRICT that ownership, because with every mass shooting in the US eventually comes the fact that other contributing factors were at play - like the shooter being drugged-up or socially ostracized or radicalized - now, those issues would not stop a mental case from harming someone, if they didn't have a gun, it would be a "how to make a bomb" or something else.

This is where background checks and if necessary psyche evaluations occur (and not evaluations by those with ulterior motives, but professional 3rd party shrinks who will be objective).

This is EXACTLY what people like myself have been advocating - yet some people ignore this fact and like to deflect the topic by making out like we are advocating for no guns whatsoever - a falsehood that couldn't be further from the truth if they tried.

After Port Arthur the nation was shocked and the buy-back scheme was very well received and successful - that was an Australian MIND-SET thing, and when the Monash Uni shooting occurred, the government further reinforced and restricted gun ownership with neary a bleep from Joe Public - because of our mindset.

Most of us realised that there could have been a LOT more incidents like those were it not for the laws introduced after Port Arthur.

Anyway, Americans do indeed need to reflect on these incidents and until they collectively WANT to change, it is a sad fact that these shooting will continue - perpetrated mainly by a very very select demographic of their society - namely 16-26 year old white males with a history or either mental instability (with or without the assistance of psychotropic pharmaceuticals) or social ostracization or both.

These are my observations as a non-US citizen who regularly travels there and has many friends who are US citizens and gun owners.

Indeed. The change has to come from within. One wonders how many more mass shootings have to occur before even the hardest of hardliners realises that something needs to change or the situation will only get ever worse over time.

Thanks for your input mate

a reply to: Kryties

The real issue is this:

You could have all the guns you could possibly think of made available to everyone, all the time, without restriction, but if you want that kind of access, then there have to be some basic ground rules about society in general, and effective measures to enforce them.

For example, all, and I mean ALL members of society with pre-existing mental conditions that mean that they could present a threat to people's lives must immediately be incarcerated for the protection of the public, and indeed the individual themselves. That includes all racial extremists on whichever side of the ridiculous racial divide, persons with a history of dangerous delusional episodes and violence, any repeat violent offender. The term of incarceration is indefinite, and need not be attached to a specific crime. This would mean that anyone who has ever had any history of violence, or anyone who has a condition which COULD lead them to commit violence, would be sent to either jail or a mental health facility for the rest of their days.

Furthermore, mental healthcare provision would have to take the black budget of the NSA, CIA, DIA, and so on, and create a mental welfare system which could perfectly and absolutely ensure, that if someone fires a gun in the USA, that they are not doing it because they are in the throws of a delusional episode, fugue, as part of a gang war, or because they are psychopaths and just do not give two tugs of a dead mans trigger.

Now, as it stands, the real problem with the situation is that individuals with serious mental health problems are free to roam around, outside, where their victims are always within easy reach, and their movements cannot be easily accounted for. Problems like over crowded prisons, and and too little money being spent on mental healthcare provision, are stopping proper measures being taken to prevent the worst atrocities imaginable, while allowing guns to remain a significant and unfettered part of American life. If American people want to be able to engage with their second amendment rights, which they clearly do, and which is a position I fully support, then they MUST have measures in place to remove from general population, those members of society who pose a threat to that population, purely because there is a threat, and not necessarily because there has been a crime committed.

Simply put, in a nation which has guns, a responsible government cannot have psychopaths, schizophrenics, wife beaters, gang bangers, people who subscribe to hate politics, or brainwashed morons stumbling about with hatred in their hearts and murder on their minds, free to pick up a gun and slaughter the innocent.

So, which is it to be? Guns, or keeping as many potentially murderous individuals as possible out of the system to save money and time? The people need to pick one, and stop burying their heads in the sand over it. No third way is possible, because you cannot have a nation where guns are readily available, AND allow those who have no self control, compassion, empathy or respect for life, to walk amongst the population.

a reply to: IslandOfMisfitToys

Wow...

a reply to: Kryties
According to the FBI's own numbers there have been a drop in violent crime from year to year almost 50% in just a few decades. In that same time the number of firearms have grown from 190 million to 350 million. That alone shows that there is no correlation between more guns = more crime.

Also there have been many studies on how many times people use a gun to defend themselves, the conclusion are that the numbers are vastly under reported because most defensive gun use never involve a shot being fired. A very conservative estimate from the National Crime and Victimization Survey estimated that there are at least 200k defensive gun use a year. That would mean that defensive gun use happens multiple times every single day.

Lastly I don't give a hoot what the rest of the world thinks. Unless They can garanteed that all criminal magically lose their guns when these new laws are passed and that the government will never turn tyrannical .. I keep my guns thank you.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Kryties

Then your whole argument is ridiculous, any gun can kill just the same sorry, "high powered" ignorant. The guns available are semi automatic, there are restrictions in place and it's not going to go further. No one is going to take any Americans guns.

The guy would of killed with a 9mm, the guy would of made bombs, the guy would of stabbed ect. If you are hell bent on killing you will, for us we will address this in another way( social and psychological conditions) and the world can go pound sand, and shake their pretentious heads and make asinine comments. We don't give a # what you think,

thank you.

Then please explain why countries that have enacted restrictions see very little mass murders and have a greatly reduced amount of incidents of people dying by guns - if your theory was somehow true?

I said it in my OP (which you clearly did not read properly as this was already covered in it) that restrictions do not stop ALL incidents, but they provably greatly reduce them. Why do you insist on ignoring this absolute fact?

a reply to: TrueBrit

An excellent analysis mate, thanks for your input. I would reply further but I pretty much agree with everything you said and any further points I would make would just be repeating myself from previous posts.

One thing I will say, however, is that every country has mental health problems and issues. People all over the world take psychoactive drugs to treat mental afflictions - so the assertion that it's purely and entirely a "mental health" problem in America alone is false. The rest of us don't see the same amount of mass shootings that America does.

a reply to: IslandOfMisfitToys

Ok I accept that mental health is an unfortunate illness that should receive much more funding for treatment and recognised in the the same way serious physical illness are. If all countries have a same level of violence and medical treatment for mental health, but only one accepts school shootings as a way of life then we need to identify the other variables that similar countries don't share.

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Sublimecraft

No offense but no wonder Hitler marched straight through Europe without batting an eye.......

That is......until the big bad Americans with guns came to save them........

Clearly you have never read a history book.

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: Kryties

I keep my guns thank you.

Nobody wants to take ALL your guns away, please stop repeating this lie.

a reply to: Kryties


Couldn't star that enough.

Remember , not having gun control is the very reason we are not British today....
And remember the peaceful Mahatma Gandhi?

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.”

It's interesting, I was talking to three sisters between the ages of 10-15 a few days ago, family friends and they are from the U.S. All three are blonde haired,blue eyed, very nice and genuine and sincere.

I jokingly said "you all go to high school in America? What sort of gun do you carry."

The first said I'd carry a .357 for stopping power, the second said you need something with more than six rounds and the last said you need an AR-15!

I'm not that old but was a little taken aback about how flippant they were, and how serious they were as I thought I was only making a joke!!!

a reply to: Kryties

Lol same different you want to take weapons away that would make us dangerous to the government.