The Syrian air war thread....

a reply to: Tiamat384

I don't know about the Chinese participation. I had heard a number of ground troops were being sent. No further information on that one.

Ironically, Putin has been 'invited' by Assad, the recognized 'leader' of Syria. That makes Russia's move, technically legal. U.S. 'policy', in this case Obama's policy, is arrogance. If the U.S. has a beef with Assad, they should declare war with Syria.

That isn't happening from the Nobel Peace Price winner...LMAO. Arming the rebels/Isis is arrogance taken to a new level.

Putting aside the semantics of 'legality', assuming that the only reason Putin is in Syria is because they are an "ally" is pure bull.

Putin fully matches-and trumps-Obama in the agenda department.

Anyone who claims Putin is righteous is a dissembler...

a reply to: nwtrucker
I'm pretty sure I saw a thread that said that the Chinese aircraft carrier was not going to the Middle East, much less Syria and that China would not be getting involved. Well of course that's not the only reason, or even the main reason I am sure. But my point of saying that was that Russia is legally there, whereas the West is illegally getting involved. I recognize that Russia moving into Syria is most likely to preserve Assad and Russia's interests such as their military base(ses) in Syria. And of course it may be to take eyes away from Russia's economy. But my point still stands, Russia is wanted there by Syria, and the USA and the rest of the West is not. Russia sends this message via spoken word and the presence of SAM and fighter jets.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: stosh64
What we are witnessing is the blowback from all of our meddling and messing in the affairs of the ME nations. People are sick and tired of it and that is why Russia and Iran are standing up to fix the problems that we created.

What we are witnessing is the blowback from all of the old Soviet Union's meddling and messing in the affairs of the ME nations. Fixed it for you.

It wasn't Russia that overthrew an elected government in Iran in the 50's. It wasn't Russia that backed, funded and pushed radical Islam starting in the 80's. It wasn't Russia that sponsored Al Queda and then blamed them for terrorism after the US went in to Iraq, took out Hussein and threw the region in to chaos. And it's not Russia that is responsible for ISIS and the arms they use in combat.

Russia is stepping in because someone has to stop what is happening and we cannot do it because we created it.

I know that's inconvenient for those that dislike Russia, but it's the truth.

Just STOP! There is not one ounce of 'truth' in any of that.

Russia created terrorism when they INVADED Afghanistan in the 80s.

Look up the Peshwar Seven, and the Tehran Eight.

Then Look up the Taiiban that was created in Paskistan to fight the Soviets.

We created nothing.

Russia backs the Shia side of radical Islam.

originally posted by: olaru12
Could you provide a link....

I don't recall Russia invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, or supporting Zionist invasion of Palestine.

fixed it for you

Go find a good library and look for yourself. Things did happen before there was an internet. I would pay attention to Egypt in the 50's, Sadat's assassination, training of the PLO, etc. etc. etc.

a reply to: Tiamat384

No argument re the 'legality'.

I hadn't heard anything about a Chinese aircraft carrier, either. That would be a dumb move when faced with Nimitz Class carriers stationed in the Med. in any event.... The Chinese are not stupid.

The Russians are 'legal' in this move, I agree. It doesn't make it righteous.

Truth be told, there's enough crap on both sides that I'm not interested in that hair-splitting.

I'm far more concerned with where this could go, rather than "who started it"....

a reply to: nwtrucker

Syria not worth starting WWIII over.

Either the USA/UK/France reach some deal to work with Russia on this which I would prefer and ALL of us gone in and sort the mess out and exterminate all the Jihadists.

If not let Russia handle Syria and get mauled while we handle IS in Iraq.

a reply to: crazyewok

Russia and the US are going to hold a video confrence tonight to try and resolve how they are going to operate in Syian airspace.

If they dont come to a conlusion. Russia have the best Cards for locking the US out. Russia already have multiple Anti-access/area denial system "A2/AD" in Place in Syria.

www.washingtonpost.com...

a reply to: crazyewok

Good thought. I'd agree with that alternative.

a reply to: spy66

Would you bet against the U.S. having already GPS locks on those sites. That satellite coverage can't follow mobile moves?

Those site could be taken out fairly easily from what I can see. To wit. Aircraft carriers. The Russians can't trump/match them without major escalation....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: crazyewok

Good thought. I'd agree with that alternative.

Normally I dont advocate international interference. But ISIS et al are attacking everyone and brought the war to Syria.

Really I think we should go in all together and force order under a central government (even if it is under Assad,) root out and exterminate the Jihadists, stabilize the region to return the refugees safely, then get Assad to step down and quit.

i dont care what russia has or has not done.....i care what america is doing to support radical islam/militants who are running around killing every christian they find and setting up prostitution rings. these people are the scum and filth of the earth.

a reply to: crazyewok

Why does Assad have to leave/quit?

The American version of democracy isn't for everyone and shouldn't be expected to be.
If the population of Syria want him to quit then leave it up to them to make him without outside help.....how is it any of our business?

When a population wants something bad enough they eventually find a way to get it.

a reply to: nwtrucker
I agree, but the West should leave it alone. Let Russia, Syria and Iran deal with ISIS, and yes the other "moderate" rebels because let's face it, the moderates tend to go extreme. I have heard about the carrier, but it was later disproven on another thread I believe. Well the West being there is neither legal nor righteous. This could go to some very high tensions between the West and Russia, something similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis, just minus the nukes, though both sides have capability...

a reply to: xXSvenXx
This, I absolutely agree with this. Russia should stay till ISIS and "moderate" groups are destroyed and even then they have their military base(ses).

originally posted by: xXSvenXx
a reply to: crazyewok

Why does Assad have to leave/quit?

The American version of democracy isn't for everyone and shouldn't be expected to be.
If the population of Syria want him to quit then leave it up to them to make him without outside help.....how is it any of our business?

When a population wants something bad enough they eventually find a way to get it.

I think the priority is to get stability in Syria first.

After give the people a referendum. The fact he lost control of the country in the first place brings into question his leadership ability's.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: stosh64
What we are witnessing is the blowback from all of our meddling and messing in the affairs of the ME nations. People are sick and tired of it and that is why Russia and Iran are standing up to fix the problems that we created.

What we are witnessing is the blowback from all of the old Soviet Union's meddling and messing in the affairs of the ME nations. Fixed it for you.

It wasn't Russia that overthrew an elected government in Iran in the 50's. It wasn't Russia that backed, funded and pushed radical Islam starting in the 80's. It wasn't Russia that sponsored Al Queda and then blamed them for terrorism after the US went in to Iraq, took out Hussein and threw the region in to chaos. And it's not Russia that is responsible for ISIS and the arms they use in combat.

Russia is stepping in because someone has to stop what is happening and we cannot do it because we created it.

I know that's inconvenient for those that dislike Russia, but it's the truth.

Just STOP! There is not one ounce of 'truth' in any of that.

Russia created terrorism when they INVADED Afghanistan in the 80s.

Look up the Peshwar Seven, and the Tehran Eight.

Then Look up the Taiiban that was created in Paskistan to fight the Soviets.

We created nothing.

Russia backs the Shia side of radical Islam.

Who helped the Taliban? Who helped the Mujaheddin? Who was behind these radical groups giving them money, arms and training to fight the soviets?

That was the US.

I know people don't like to come to terms with that reality and want to blame Russia for whatever they can, but that does not change history. It's there for all to see.

By the way, does anybody know where the USS Ohio and the USS Nevada are? Might come in handy.

a reply to: introvert

The reason is your "reality' seems to be selective.

In the day, Communism was expanding. U.S. policy was to block that expansion. Period.

Russia invaded Afghanistan. There was zero problem with the U.S. supporting the Taliban at the time. In the U.S. or internationally. FACT. Iran's elected gov't was Communist backed. I know many Iranian ex-pats that to this day say their best times were under the Shah. There were international sanctions lead by the U.S. highlighted by wheat embargos. Broad international support. The U.S. failure was after the successful removal of the Soviets was allowing a 'power vacuum'. That was the main cause. NOT the U.S. support of the Taliban. FACT.

The general mess in the ME goes back to the British empire. Also, fact. No one is vilifying them at this point. Your compulsion to put the U.S. as THE source of the ME ills is flat out exaggeration. So when you do have a valid point, it tends to get ignored in the constant crying "wolf'....

The point of this thread is the current situation, where it could go and the solutions to it. Not finger pointing like children screaming "he started it".

Can we agree the set-up as it stands in Syria- is fraught with danger and start there?

I have seen some footage from the ground this morning from Russian strikes. It looks very bad. Men running, carrying small children, amidst horrendous rubble. We can expect another surge of refugees.

I'm really getting worried.

Im not sure how true this is, but if they are targeting US backed rebels it may not go over well with the US.

www.theblaze.com...

It looks like China is getting involved too.

www.thehindu.com...