Refugee or immigrant?

a reply to: onequestion

The prejudice is all in the language. It reminds me of an old Onion headline about 'black looters and white foragers.'

As a Westerner, if I go and live in another country, I'd be an 'ex-pat' and never an 'immigrant.' If an Indian moves to the West to be a surgeon, they'd still be an 'immigrant' and never an 'ex-pat.' If a South African moves to England, they are an 'ex-pat' and if a Nigerian moves to England, they're an 'immigrant.'

The history of the USA calls 'immigrants' and 'refugees' the friendlier term of settlers.

That's how language talks right?

Maybe we should start trying to help solve the problems in these countries. I bet it would actually benefit us financially enabling another country to prosper. I know it's selfish to think of it in terms of economy but that's the only thing Americans see is wealth and the numbers in their bank accounts.

Maybe we should be extremely careful about motives before 'trying to help solve the problems?' Off the top of my head, I can't think of anywhere that is now peaceful and successful as an outcome of our 'help.' Maybe the Balkans?

I actually agree with your sentiment. It's just hard to see how it would be accomplished. More peace equals more stability and prosperity, but we've surely learnt that peace rarely comes from the threat of bombs and bullets. Massive money dumps on struggling economies haven't worked so well yet either.

Maybe instead of the U.S. trying to fix everything for other countries, those countries help themselves. We have more to worry about at home then the billions that we give in aid every year. Use public schools or public handouts as an example- throwing money at the problem doesn't do anything but bankrupt the country throwing the money.

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.

Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?

You mean the land the"natives" took from someone else before? lol They were not here first either according to archaology records.

a reply to: Night Star

Many have no intentions of staying and becoming citizens, they save money only to return to their Country of origin well off.

Since when did "working and saving money" become a horrible thing? NEWSFLASH: It's not a horrible thing.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Night Star

Many have no intentions of staying and becoming citizens, they save money only to return to their Country of origin well off.

Since when did "working and saving money" become a horrible thing? NEWSFLASH: It's not a horrible thing.

When you break the law to go to another Country, receive benefits through fraud etc., it is a horrible thing. I wouldn't dream of going to another Country illegally to gain benefits through deception. It would bother me to take a job knowing that millions of their citizens were unemployed. It would bother me that tax payers were paying for my children's education etc, and it would bother me that I was having all my needs met and I was placed above that Country's own citizens. NEWSFLASH: Illegal immigration has a negative impact on our Country on many levels.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Night Star

Many have no intentions of staying and becoming citizens, they save money only to return to their Country of origin well off.

Since when did "working and saving money" become a horrible thing? NEWSFLASH: It's not a horrible thing.

Since they are basically comitting fraud by being here illegally and get welfare and jobs with fake SS numbers.

originally posted by: onequestion
Recently I came to the realization that immigrants are more like refugees. For the most part they are fleeing their countries.

What this perspective has done has helped me understand where most of the people coming here we're thinking and how we should really address the issue of people flooding our borders.

Maybe we should start trying to help solve the problems in these countries. I bet it would actually benefit us financially enabling another country to prosper. I know it's selfish to think of it in terms of economy but that's the only thing Americans see is wealth and the numbers in their bank accounts.

Jesus Christ on a hot dog, i've been ranting about this for years here. Thank God someone else is coming to their senses.

The 'problem' in Mexico is our government funded a huge turf war to put a specific cartel in power. The cartel that El Chapo was the head of. That is the problem. Before that, Mexico's economy was growing and its government was finding increasing stability and credibility.

a reply to: Night Star


"you would?" Do what? You have no idea what you would do in their circumstances.

They do what everybody else does.......... they go where the jobs are. It's how working people roll.

a reply to: onequestion

If I was fleeing my country due to persecution or war I think I'd go to the nearest safe country and claim asylum there , what I would'n't do is trek half way around the world to get to Western Europe and attempt to break into their country.

There are ways and means but these economic migrants don't think the rules apply to them , my country is open to legal migrants who want to follow the rules.

A youtube Video from Al J.
Serbia through Macedonia

a reply to: gortex

Exactly! There is a huge difference between refugees and illegal immigrants or even an illegal immigrant who claims to be a refugee when they aren't.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Night Star


"you would?" Do what? You have no idea what you would do in their circumstances.

They do what everybody else does.......... they go where the jobs are. It's how working people roll.

I have worked beside illegals for many years. I have spoken with them. I have been friends with them and was always honest in telling them that I didn't approve of how they went about things. I knew of their circumstances which was no different than that of many citizens. They came because they got so much from us and it was so easy. Their words, not mine! So yes, I DO know that I would never do what they did. They even tried telling me how to screw the system. I would not do that!

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.

Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?

You mean the land the"natives" took from someone else before? lol They were not here first either according to archaology records.

Can you link me to some site that says more about this? First time I hear about it.

originally posted by: Kokatsi

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.

Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?

You mean the land the"natives" took from someone else before? lol They were not here first either according to archaology records.

Can you link me to some site that says more about this? First time I hear about it.

Link one is from National geographic.
American indians not the first?

Second is from yuuck RT.
RT says evidence found of europeans in the americas.

The NAt geo one dont mention them stealing th eland from another though, so who really knows. Most tribes though would wipe out anyone else though because they were competition.

originally posted by: onequestion
Maybe we should start trying to help solve the problems in these countries.

Maybe we should stop trying to destabilize all these countries via overt and covert means.

originally posted by: iDope
Haven't we been trying to help other countries prosper since WW1?

It would probably be more accurate to say we have been trying to keep these other countries poor for all those years.

originally posted by: Kokatsi

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: onequestion

Maybe we would all be better off if they stayed home and fixed their own countries instead of bringing their failed cultures and lifestyles into others.

Like those immigrants from the mayflower brought their failed culture and lifestyle into the lands of native Americans?

You mean the land the"natives" took from someone else before? lol They were not here first either according to archaology records.

Can you link me to some site that says more about this? First time I hear about it.

What's out there alludes to that they were the first. Despite what is already shared above, really isn't conclusive. There may have been the migrations across the "ice" bridge from Europe but that was way after the Clovis, etc., people came to the Americas.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Night Star

Many have no intentions of staying and becoming citizens, they save money only to return to their Country of origin well off.

Since when did "working and saving money" become a horrible thing? NEWSFLASH: It's not a horrible thing.

When you sneak into a country illegally work 2 jobs under 2 names, pay no taxes, collect welfare all with the intent of exploiting a flawed, exploitable system for a few years then returning to your native country as a rich person, yes then it is a horrible thing.

originally posted by: Vector99
When you sneak into a country illegally work 2 jobs under 2 names, pay no taxes, collect welfare all with the intent of exploiting a flawed, exploitable system for a few years then returning to your native country as a rich person, yes then it is a horrible thing.

That is propaganda. Nobody works a few years in the states and returns to their native country a rich person.

It's true that they are not refugees because most of the time they are not facing any danger. They are just trying to get somewhere where they can make more money.

a reply to: daskakik

It's far from propaganda my friend. I've witnessed it first hand for 15+ years.

a reply to: Vector99

No, they might go home a little better off but they are not rich.