Islamic Declaration Blasts Short-Sighted Capitalism, Demands Action on Climate

a reply to: FyreByrd

As soon as western Christians can divorce their religion from politics, I believe we will make some true progress on these fronts.

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: FyreByrd

As soon as western Christians can divorce their religion from politics, I believe we will make some true progress on these fronts.

Little off today. Sarcasm?

a reply to: Cuervo

Why only western, and why only x-ians??

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Cuervo

Why only western, and why only x-ians??

I don't think I explained that properly.

What I mean is that Christianity is based in the very principles that should defend our environment and protect the poor. It's marriage to conservatism makes Christianity go against its very nature. There's a reason the strategy to weave Christianity with the right exists.

If Christians were ever to vote and act based on their religious responsibilities to their fellow humans and not what conservatives tell them is their religious responsibilities, they would make a formidable force for greatness.

I can't imagine Jesus voting to remove foodstamps, bail out Wall Street, invest in warfare, and ignore the environment. The only reason any Christians do is because they are convinced that Christianity is a Republican religion.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: FyreByrd

As soon as western Christians can divorce their religion from politics, I believe we will make some true progress on these fronts.

Little off today. Sarcasm?

No, apparently I just came off a bit confusing. See above post.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Cuervo

Why only western, and why only x-ians??

I don't think I explained that properly.

What I mean is that Christianity is based in the very principles that should defend our environment and protect the poor. It's marriage to conservatism makes Christianity go against its very nature. There's a reason the strategy to weave Christianity with the right exists.

If Christians were ever to vote and act based on their religious responsibilities to their fellow humans and not what conservatives tell them is their religious responsibilities, they would make a formidable force for greatness.



I can't imagine Jesus voting to remove foodstamps, bail out Wall Street, invest in warfare, and ignore the environment. The only reason any Christians do is because they are convinced that Christianity is a Republican religion.

Couple pretty big misconceptions there. Did a democratic president not also partake in bank bailouts? Are we still not committing acts of war, though have taken the human face off it and for the most part replaced with drones? Do you think that only religious people think climate change is a scam?

Not someone to partake in organized religion myself but who tends to drive those that do to the right?

Not sure what's funnier, you buy the illusion that there is a difference in democrat and republican politicians or you believe only one side does the things you seem to list as problems.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: FyreByrd

As soon as western Christians can divorce their religion from politics, I believe we will make some true progress on these fronts.

Little off today. Sarcasm?

No, apparently I just came off a bit confusing. See above post.

Just wondering how that fit into the topic of the op?

a reply to: FyreByrd

"
" Adding more religious backing to the idea that Climate Change is a moral and ethical issue as well as an economic one this group of


Adding more religious backing to the idea that Climate Change is ............ Pure LAME Propaganda with those Powers that Be with an Agenda . ALL LIES ..........

a reply to: FyreByrd

Now I've heard everything.

I have to admit that the Islamic world fully embraced Hitler's Germany so, the precedent is certainly there for political alliances of convenience with socialists.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Metallicus
We know that humanity can change many things not "man made" - your point is irrelevant.

We don't HAVE to do anything. Your point is irrelevant.

Best philosophical observation of the day! **********

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Metallicus
We know that humanity can change many things not "man made" - your point is irrelevant.

We don't HAVE to do anything. Your point is irrelevant.

No one said anything about having to do anything..........so not only are you wrong, but your original point that humanity can't change anything remains wrong, and ALSO still irrelevant.

I do agree with the Muslim in this case. We are being short sighted. I also agree with them on usury.

The declaration states there is deep irony that humanity's "unwise and short-sighted use of these resources is now resulting in the destruction of the very conditions that have made our life on earth possible."

"Our attitude to these gifts has been short-sighted, and we have abused them," it continues. "What will future generations say of us, who leave them a degraded planet as our legacy? How will we face our Lord and Creator?"

Call it future generation, divine energy or something else. The excuses we are making are very thin for not doing something wise with science that is not shrouded in greed. Our old systems holding us back.

And this is from a soul who see the Quran as part duality hate speech hiding a predatory part behind lovely parts that many people do not want to see to create harmony with the followers of the religion.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
I wanted to add one important 'solution' addressed to the 'business' community in this declaration:

Change from the current business model which is based on an unsustainable escalating economy, and to adopt a circular economy that is wholly sustainable;

The planet cannot (and never, in fact, could) support a business model that requires constant gowth.

I disagree. I believe that technology can and will push us into a green consumer revolution.

I don't think we will consume less in the future I think we consume exponentially more than we do currently. But we will do it using green technologies that are both recyclable and biodegradable without damaging the environment.

I believe that we can change the world without sacrificing a consumer society. We simply have to invest in environmentally friendly and sustainable methods of production.

I have faith that when the human mind is pushed for environmental sustainability without profit being the motivation anything is possible.

a reply to: Isurrender73

we certainly can't consume "exponentially" more than we do now, now can we infinitely increase consumption of finite resulrces such as fossil fuels.

Should we ever get the political balls to give up fossil fuels and other finite resources then yeah - maybe we can continue to increase "consumption" - but that would also require 100% recycling of everything else - because everything on this earth is a finite resource - there is not infinite water unless you recycle it all (fortunately earth dose that pretty well!), there is not infinite food under any circumstances (there is limited room to grow it), there is only a limited amount of steel, even if we include the asteroids......

"Lots" is not infinite - "lots" will still run out sooner or later.

I read somewhere that the world's supercomputers could be used ot design super efficient solar cells. Although, if they spent a fraction of the amount they do drilling oil on actually properly researching solar energy we would be able to rely solely on the sun's energy within 5 years.

I think the fact that many countries have chosen to opt out of the new Kyoto Protocol also shows how little most of the world gives a shiit about climate change.

If history is anything to go by nothing will be done until everything is #ed and we have no other choice.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

The idea of not enough arable land and not enough water are solved by moving most crops to indoor hydroponics. We can build high rise hydroponics buildings that use desalinted water and solar.

With this technology we could have LA be 100% green and self sufficient in 20 years if we actually wanted to.

Plant based fabrics, plastics, and metal like material are all existing technologies.

Solar is viable to create all the energy we currently use with an exponential potential to create more energy.

Electric cars, and hydrogen fuel cells for transportation, if pure electric isn't viable for larger vehicles such as freight trucks.

Desalination technology is viable.

Most of these technologies are less than 50 years old. Investment in these technologies will only make them better.

The problem isn't viability the problem is cost. Which is why I said that as soon as environmental sustainability becomes more important than profits anything is possible.

So I stand by what I said. We can and will consume exponentially more with the right sustainable technologies.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Sure must have been a hot one in Turkey this summer

a reply to: Isurrender73

doesn't matter - there is only limited room indoors because we can only build structures "x" high with the current materials and we only have a limited amount of those materials.

Hydroponics requires recycling water - as I said.

plant based fabrics still uses up elements in eth soil - so that is a limited resource - if you do not have 100% recycling then eventually you run out.

Same with everything else - sooner or later you run out if you do not have 100% recycling.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: FyreByrd

Now I've heard everything.

I have to admit that the Islamic world fully embraced Hitler's Germany so, the precedent is certainly there for political alliances of convenience with socialists.

SARCASM AHEAD

Billiant observation - Truly relevant to Climate Chance.



I love the quality of discussion. Yeppers - keep on denying that thar ignorance.

a reply to: Isurrender73

without sacrificing a consumer society

Yes...heavens forbid that comes to pass. If there ever was something worth preserving...it's consumerism.

Which is why I said that as soon as environmental sustainability becomes more important than profits anything is possible.

I can see that happening....never. As long as you want to preserve consumerism...environmental sustainability is way down the pecking order.