Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are more similar than you think.

Members here are arguing about two presidential candidates in particular (besides BushCLinton). Donald Trump (the so-called billionaire right winger) and Bernie Sanders the (left wing champion of the poor)

They're both nationalist socialists, which means they're both fascists. They just approach it from different angles. (Which has always been the m.o. of all republicans and all democrats). You will read about why that is the case in the following link:

Why the Candidates Keep Giving Us Reasons to Use the "F" Word

they both embody key elements of fascism. They both think the nation comes first, and they both think the United States is an organization (not a spontaneous order) that should be under someone’s control.

None of the two respect property rights or personal liberty. And without those two, there is no freedom.


Here's another part of the article

The difference is that Sanders sees both the problems and the solutions from the workers’ perspective, so he’s focusing on both the exploitation by capitalists and keeping immigrants out to protect the wages of US workers. The losses to US workers matter more than the large gains to foreign-born workers coming here.

Trump sees all of this from the CEO/owner/capitalist perspective. He thinks the United States is, or should be, like a big firm where we all work together for a common goal. He envisions himself as the CEO, negotiating deals with other countries as if they, too, were just big corporate firms. But nations are not firms — they are spontaneous orders.

As I argued in an earlier column, “Socialism Is War and War Is Socialism,” this desire to turn spontaneous orders into hierarchies is characteristic of both war and socialism. It is also deeply embedded in fascism, and Sanders and Trump exemplify that tendency among the presidential candidates, though they do so with different emphases and rhetoric.

Here's another link that shows Bernie Sanders has no regard for the non-American poor.

On Immigration, Bernie Sanders Sounds Like Donald Trump
Says relaxing immigration restrictions is a right-wing Koch plot.

a reply to: TheBandit795

Great thread.

My favourite comment:

"Probably overused and especially around here, but Hayek's Road to Sefdom dedication "To the Socialists in All Parties" would be an appropriate title for this article."

a reply to: TheBandit795
I'd sure like to hear a good definition of Fascism.

originally posted by: ugmold
a reply to: TheBandit795
I'd sure like to hear a good definition of Fascism.

Fascism is national syndicalism, a form of socialism.

It wholly rejects individualism, laissez faire and liberalism in favor of the absolute primacy of the state.

"We declare war against socialism, not because it is socialism, but because it has opposed nationalism. Although we can discuss the question of what socialism is, what is its program, and what are its tactics, one thing is obvious: the official Italian Socialist Party has been reactionary and absolutely conservative. If its views had prevailed, our survival in the world of today would be impossible."

-Benito Mussolini

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: ugmold
a reply to: TheBandit795
I'd sure like to hear a good definition of Fascism.

Fascism is national syndicalism, a form of socialism.

It wholly rejects individualism, laissez faire and liberalism in favor of the absolute primacy of the state.

"We declare war against socialism, not because it is socialism, but because it has opposed nationalism. Although we can discuss the question of what socialism is, what is its program, and what are its tactics, one thing is obvious: the official Italian Socialist Party has been reactionary and absolutely conservative. If its views had prevailed, our survival in the world of today would be impossible."

-Benito Mussolini

Thanks

I thought Mussolini said "Corporatism was Fascism".

a reply to: TheBandit795


They are national socialist? Whaaaaat?

Bernie is a democratic socialist and Trump? Who the hell knows he doesn't do anything but talk #.

Fascism is corporate control which is what we have now.

Sheesh.

a reply to: ugmold

Corporatism is a form of syndicalism.

the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction

Many people confuse cronyism with corporatism.

Basically, fascism is where the government allows people to hold their property so long as they manage it exactly as the government desires.

One of the catch-phrases you need to watch for public-private partnership.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yep, fascism doesn't respect private property. I highly doubt Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump do.

a reply to: TheBandit795

yeah well you got any better ideas for candidates ? lol

a reply to: Kapusta

Anyone who wants to get rid of the federal reserve and fractional reserve banking would be nice.

We can play with definitions all day long.

In the end, the only question that remains is;

"Is my standard of living going to increase or decrease when "______________" becomes president?"

originally posted by: TheBandit795
a reply to: Kapusta

Anyone who wants to get rid of the federal reserve and fractional reserve banking would be nice.

Rand perhaps ?

a reply to: Kapusta

Not sure. He doesn't seem to me to be up to par with his dad.

a reply to: onequestion

Bernie is anti-immigration and nationalist (link. And he's a socialist as we all know.

originally posted by: TheBandit795
Here's another link that shows Bernie Sanders has no regard for the non-American poor.

It shows no such thing!

All he's saying is that he was elected to represent the American people as his first priority and that's what he intends to do.

If you're going to assert that Bernie's is against making an effort to end global poverty, you're gonna have to do better than that.

This sort of thinking, and articles espousing the rhetoric within, has been on the rise lately since a known democrat socialist decided to run for president.

"National socialism", aka Nazi policy, is not a matter of economic policy. It is the attempt to unify a nations people as a collective being. Ultra-nationalism, ultra-patriotism. THat way the fascist state could more easaily justify it's decisions on war, and more easily get the support of the people when killing masses of others.

Best way to think of it is that the "National Socialists" of today are the people that wave their flag and scream god bless America, all while we find out that our nation has killed 4 million+ people in the middle east>

Sounds familiar?

Advocating for workers rights or the benefit of the economic welfare of the people is not national socialism.

I wish people would educate themselves on the difference.

Great a thread pushing the fallacy that Socialism = fascism. Strawmanning the opposite side of the debate in the opening post, I can see this thread is going to go places...

a reply to: Flatfish

I remain with what I've said.

He argues that much of this suffering is the result of U.S. free trade policy. But instead of agitating for internationalist solutions like cross-border unionization, as proposed by the global justice movement against neoliberalism, Sanders argues for protectionist policies and economic nationalism.

Sanders’ support for the Democrats confounds his position. After all, it was the Democratic Party under Bill Clinton that passed NAFTA, established the WTO, cut the big deals with China and imposed some of the worst IMF structural adjustments programs on developing countries.

Ominously, Sanders’ economic nationalism has led him to look for allies among Republican right-wingers like Lou Dobbs and Patrick Buchanan, who see China as a rival to U.S. power and are looking for political justification for a new Cold War.

In denouncing Permanent Normalized Trade Relations (PNTR) with China, Sanders wrote, "As the greatest democracy on Earth, we must ask why American companies are turning communist China into the new superpower of the 21st century? While Microsoft is ‘saving a dollar,’ it is helping undermine our economic and military security by gutting our manufacturing and technological infrastructure, and moving it lock, stock, and barrel to one of our major international rivals."

Once in the House, Sanders made one of his worst environmental decisions. He worked with then-Texas Gov. George Bush to lead the charge for dumping nuclear waste from Vermont’s Vernon reactor in Sierra Blanca, an impoverished town inhabited mainly by Chicanos on the border with Mexico.

Together, they worked to pass the Maine-Vermont-Texas nuclear waste compact, and then took advantage of Bill Clinton’s decision to allow interstate transportation of low-level nuclear waste. Sierra Blanca, already a toxic waste dump, has thus been poisoned for generations.

A Socialist in the Senate?

Bernie Sanders Voting Record Antithetical To His Purported Anti-War Stance



a reply to: introvert

What do you think the majority of politicians in the U.S. are doing?

Advocating for workers rights or the benefit of the economic welfare of the people is not national socialism.

That's not all what's he's advocating for. He's also a warmonger, as seen in my links above.




a reply to: Krazysh0t

Socialism alone is not fascim, where did I say that? National socialism is fascism.