Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

Over the years I came to the conclusion that the knowledge that there exists a creator to the world (with all the details below. Scroll down to see what I mean) is extremely simple and any thinking human whose brain is functioning normally will come to that very conclusion.

The obvious question is why does such a large quantity of people in the world, so many people of all generations among them genius minds of big scientists and philosophers deny that fact?

The answer is bias. A persons intellect is distorted by his desires, preconceived notions, and society. The knowledge that there exists a creator to the world threatens a persons comfort and desires because if there is a creator then he must a purpose for his creation, which might include things required of a person that threatens his comfort. A person does not like to do things that are uncomfortable to him, refrain for doing as he pleases, or be looked upon as unusual from his society. So a person tries to find all kinds of things illogical as they may be to rely upon so he can have a clear conscious while continuing to do as he desires. Many people don't even think for themselves they just blindly follow the herd of people of who are influenced by those big bias leaders of thought. Only an unbiased person who's only purpose is to find the truth no matter how uncomfortable it may be can see the clear truth that shouts itself out to the world.

Now this this knowledge is best found by contemplating to root question which is the following and nothing else. All other subjects such as morality, religion, and so forth can only be discussed after this root question is answered: Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical? This question will lead the truly unbiased person to the inevitable truth of the existence of a creator with the following conclusions:


There exists a being, who is the master of everything that exists and who brought all things into being at the time he desired. He sustains them as long as he so desires, and rules over them with complete authority. This Being is perfect in every way, having absolutely no imperfection whatsoever. He does not depend on anything else, and is not affected by anything whatsoever.

Gods existence is absolutely without beginning or end. That is, He did not pass from nonexistence into existence, and will absolutely never pass into nonexistence. He therefore always was, and always will be, and it is impossible for him to cease to exist.

God is the cause of all that is, but He himself is not the result of any cause. Rather, His existence is necessary, intrinsic to his nature. He has absolutely no structure, nor does He have any element of multiplicity. Rather, He is structureless and ultimately simple. Nothing that applies to the physical relates to God at all. He is divorced from any boundary or limit, from every association, and from every natural law.

The true essence and nature of God cannot be grasped at all. It has no analogy, neither with any concept that exists among created things, nor with any idea that the imagination can conceive or the intellect comprehend. There are no words or descriptions which are truly fitting and proper to use in relation to God.

When we speak of God, we make use of words, but we do so only in borrowed or metaphorical terms, so that we should understand what we must regarding Him. Our vocabulary contains only words pertaining to natural concepts, bound by the limitations of created things, and it it
therefore impossible for us to say anything at all without these words. But all who seek God and speak about Him must clearly realize that any descriptions or words used in relation to God do not truly relate to Him. They can apply only as borrowed terms, and in no other sense.

Lets together debate the existence of god from the the question that I wrote above: "Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?"

Edit/Update:

let me expand a bit more on the question from one of my replies:

How could something physical and limited exist without there being a cause for its existence? Yet how could there be a god if no body created him? Both dont make a lot of sense but you have to agree that these are the only two possibilities. What makes more sense? Limited quantity of existence that always existed without anything limiting its quantity of existence, existing without anything making it exist, and eventually developing and changing itself from simple into being more complex or that there exists an unlimited creator whose above any physicality and time who brought limited existence from non existence and makes the entire creation exist?

Shall we begin?

I plan on watching this thread progress!!!

a reply to: Grimpachi

You think it will be different, somehow?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Phage

Nope. Not in the slightest, but I am bored.

a reply to: arimass101

Honestly, reading that made my physically ill. I love how you assume so much of people. I'm glad you have a relationship with your "creator" and I'm glad it gets you by, but I find your sentiments delusional and scary. The universe was created by my anus.

If God is so powerful, then why doesn't he exist? Huh? Huh?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Fixed. Thanks. I originally wrote it in wordpad.

a reply to: arimass101

...required to come to that very conclusion.

Required?? Is that a footnote on our birth certificates?

I stopped reading there. Nothing is required.

Faith is given freely.

a reply to: arimass101

Honey! Is there any popcorn left?

I'm not an atheist and because I believe, I can't pretend to be one either.

originally posted by: arimass101
"Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?"

Shall we begin?

Logic is subjective when religious people are involved.

Regardless, why does it matter which is more logical? How would that prove the existence of your god?

Hmmm. I believe there is a being that is referred to as god, but I don't see any evidence presented that even starts to prove he exists. Oh well.

Oh...sorry. Where's the proof?

originally posted by: arimass101
a reply to: Grimpachi

Fixed. Thanks. I originally wrote it in wordpad.

Only someone well versed in ATS knows you have to word pad or risk losing your work. So my question is how many new accounts have you made?

a reply to: arimass101

I actually enjoyed some of your thoughts. Especially the part about how we try to quantify "God" with our limited human capacity. That discussion could actually lead to some interesting places.

But I'm not so sure you or anyone else can "prove" that God exists to an atheist. This subject has been beaten to death by far greater minds than we have here on ATS, and for thousands of years.

I believe a better way to frame your statement would be that it might be possible to prove that the existence of God is more logical than the premise the Universe has no origin.

Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical? This question will lead the truly unbiased person to the inevitable truth of the existence of a creator with the following conclusions:

If the concept of a divine being was logical, it would be one of the hypotheses considered by scientists.

It's not because it isn't.

God is just a catch-all for everything that we don't understand because some people find it scary to say "I don't know." Don't you find it interesting that, as human beings gain more knowledge, fewer things are attributed to god? There was a time when people were convinced that every good or bad thing that happened in their world was due to punishment or reward from god... now, most of us know better but a few hold-outs prefer living in denial instead of embracing logic.

If this is all you bring to the table to "prove" that the universe was created by a magic man in the sky, color me thoroughly unimpressed.

a reply to: arimass101

You can't prove God. Only God can by making itself known. Like giant person we can touch and watch perform miracles. Sorry, I do believe that there is something, but there is and never will be proof.

originally posted by: Answer

Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical? This question will lead the truly unbiased person to the inevitable truth of the existence of a creator with the following conclusions:

If the concept of a divine being was logical, it would be one of the hypotheses considered by scientists.

It is a hypothesis considered by scientists. Maybe not all of them, but there are most definitely scientists out there that are perfectly comfortable with the notion of a creator.

The reason science can't deal with the issue as a whole is because it deals with understanding the material universe. How is a discipline based entirely on the material universe supposed to deal with a concept that is by definition immaterial?

If the concept of a divine being was logical, it would be one of the hypotheses considered by scientists.

Your exactly the person I was referring to when I wrote:

A persons intellect is distorted by his desires, preconceived notions, and society.

and

Many people don't even think for themselves they just blindly follow the herd of people of who are influenced by those big bias leaders of thought.

I miss Benard, at least his threads were somewhat original.

a reply to: arimass101

If I follow your logic...

The true essence and nature of God cannot be grasped at all. It has no analogy, neither with any concept that exists among created things, nor with any idea that the imagination can conceive or the intellect comprehend. There are no words or descriptions which are truly fitting and proper to use in relation to God.

When we speak of God, we make use of words, but we do so only in borrowed or metaphorical terms, so that we should understand what we must regarding Him. Our vocabulary contains only words pertaining to natural concepts, bound by the limitations of created things, and it it therefore impossible for us to say anything at all without these words. But all who seek God and speak about Him must clearly realize that any descriptions or words used in relation to God do not truly relate to Him. They can apply only as borrowed terms, and in no other sense.

There exists a being, who is the master of everything that exists and who brought all things into being at the time he desired. He sustains them as long as he so desires, and rules over them with complete authority. This Being is perfect in every way, having absolutely no imperfection whatsoever. He does not depend on anything else, and is not affected by anything whatsoever.

Gods existence is absolutely without beginning or end. That is, He did not pass from nonexistence into existence, and will absolutely never pass into nonexistence. He therefore always was, and always will be, and it is impossible for him to cease to exist.

God is the cause of all that is, but He himself is not the result of any cause. Rather, His existence is necessary, intrinsic to his nature. He has absolutely no structure, nor does He have any element of multiplicity. Rather, He is structureless and ultimately simple. Nothing that applies to the physical relates to God at all. He is divorced from any boundary or limit, from every association, and from every natural law.

...it seems it is of no concern here.