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Rethinking Nuclear Submarines as Spaceships
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Rethinking Submarines as Spaceships
Part One
Once the A-bomb was developed physicists turned to harnessing the new mode of power in other ways. The US Air Force decided that it wanted an atomic powered bomber that could reach anywhere in the world non-stop without refueling. It dreamed of giant planes that could stay in the air on indefinite patrol, possibly only coming down every few weeks for crew rotation. Obviously an impossible dream, but they set to work toward that goal. Two B-36 bombers were dedicated to be modified to carry experimental reactors.
As the saying goes, the air force went off half-cocked in their efforts. As an experimental unit, the reactor was hung under the belly of the B-36. It provided no power for propelling the plane. It was for demo purposes and perhaps a PR show more than anything. The Air Force gave up the effort after two flights of that contraption. They concluded that the required shielding for the reactor made the concept impractical. Probably more important to the dismissal was that they never got seriously involved in a design for a nuclear-powered type of jet engine for such an aircraft.
The jealous rival of the Air Force, the Navy, picked up the idea in 1947 of using nuclear energy to propel machinery and asked industry to provide a design for a submarine reactor. Nukes were perfect for their submarines. It would be able to stay on patrol indefinitely without refueling or surfacing. And so the transition started as the submarines and bigger naval ships were designed for the new mode.
The design for the world’s first operational atomic powered ship, a submarine, was accepted and the keel laid in 1952. lt was named the USS Nautilus. It was launched in 1954 and commissioned later that year.
For a hundred years, subs have been effective and efficient weapons of war. A modern submarine is an even more fearsome weapon, some designs are huge and with a utility function much like an aircraft carrier, a moveable, but submersible, fortress. The US has a subsurface fleet of sizeable proportions with an incredible capability of not only launching sophisticated torpedoes, but mine laying, firing missiles from underwater, special compartments and airlocks for SEAL teams, and other special ops equipment. As of this date, mid-2015, the US has 75 commissioned submarines in 4 different classifications, all nuclear. The last diesel-electric submarine was retired in 1990.
**************************************
In 2002, an English hacker named Gary McKinnon got deep into supposedly secure Pentagon and NASA computer files by searching for computers that didn’t have passwords. He spent a lot of time in his efforts. Eventually, he claimed that he ran across crew change rosters for ships’ officers. But the names of the ships did not appear in standard US Navy registries. It is noteworthy for our cause here that in the sixteen-minute interview (linked here) that he did not mention that aspect of his findings which were in the early releases about his discoveries. Nor did he give in the interview any indication that he believed that we actually had a mysterious fleet in space even though he earlier had professed that his goal to find factual data to prove his suspicions that the unregistered ships were actually manned spaceships.
He does detail the one instance of how he was caught looking at a image of a huge tubular object in space with a portion of the earth visible in the background. The file was discovered on a computer in the notorious NASA Building 8. He claimed that object to be an alien craft, "something not man-made" and "cigar shaped" floating above the earth. However, he didn’t give any indication of why he assumed it was an alien craft when he supposedly had proof that the US Navy had space capable ships! Our suspicions are aroused. We need to ponder that point.
It may well be that he made a deal with the authorities in the US that it was OK to mention an alien tube-shaped ship, but not to equate it with the mysterious ship names and rosters—neither of which he mentioned in the interview, just the belief that the image was an “alien ship.” Was this a scripted interview designed to avoid some basic, tell tale facts and shift to more exciting and dubious details?
What would be the general public’s reaction to his credibility of supposedly seeing an alien ship by hacking into files in NASA’s Building 8? --He wasn’t taken seriously. The public’s response was on the order of: “Ho-hum. Oh, sure, hacker boy, hunkered down in your attic loft, what else you got?” Who but conspiracy freaks would believe him? But if we assume that the image was of a genuine US Navy tube ship and not of the suggested alien ship, then that puts a whole new angle to the story. That would be supporting proof of the existence of US ships, the rosters and a whole lot more.
www.snotr.com... McKinnon video
Part One
Once the A-bomb was developed physicists turned to harnessing the new mode of power in other ways. The US Air Force decided that it wanted an atomic powered bomber that could reach anywhere in the world non-stop without refueling. It dreamed of giant planes that could stay in the air on indefinite patrol, possibly only coming down every few weeks for crew rotation. Obviously an impossible dream, but they set to work toward that goal. Two B-36 bombers were dedicated to be modified to carry experimental reactors.
As the saying goes, the air force went off half-cocked in their efforts. As an experimental unit, the reactor was hung under the belly of the B-36. It provided no power for propelling the plane. It was for demo purposes and perhaps a PR show more than anything. The Air Force gave up the effort after two flights of that contraption. They concluded that the required shielding for the reactor made the concept impractical. Probably more important to the dismissal was that they never got seriously involved in a design for a nuclear-powered type of jet engine for such an aircraft.
The jealous rival of the Air Force, the Navy, picked up the idea in 1947 of using nuclear energy to propel machinery and asked industry to provide a design for a submarine reactor. Nukes were perfect for their submarines. It would be able to stay on patrol indefinitely without refueling or surfacing. And so the transition started as the submarines and bigger naval ships were designed for the new mode.
The design for the world’s first operational atomic powered ship, a submarine, was accepted and the keel laid in 1952. lt was named the USS Nautilus. It was launched in 1954 and commissioned later that year.
For a hundred years, subs have been effective and efficient weapons of war. A modern submarine is an even more fearsome weapon, some designs are huge and with a utility function much like an aircraft carrier, a moveable, but submersible, fortress. The US has a subsurface fleet of sizeable proportions with an incredible capability of not only launching sophisticated torpedoes, but mine laying, firing missiles from underwater, special compartments and airlocks for SEAL teams, and other special ops equipment. As of this date, mid-2015, the US has 75 commissioned submarines in 4 different classifications, all nuclear. The last diesel-electric submarine was retired in 1990.
**************************************
In 2002, an English hacker named Gary McKinnon got deep into supposedly secure Pentagon and NASA computer files by searching for computers that didn’t have passwords. He spent a lot of time in his efforts. Eventually, he claimed that he ran across crew change rosters for ships’ officers. But the names of the ships did not appear in standard US Navy registries. It is noteworthy for our cause here that in the sixteen-minute interview (linked here) that he did not mention that aspect of his findings which were in the early releases about his discoveries. Nor did he give in the interview any indication that he believed that we actually had a mysterious fleet in space even though he earlier had professed that his goal to find factual data to prove his suspicions that the unregistered ships were actually manned spaceships.
He does detail the one instance of how he was caught looking at a image of a huge tubular object in space with a portion of the earth visible in the background. The file was discovered on a computer in the notorious NASA Building 8. He claimed that object to be an alien craft, "something not man-made" and "cigar shaped" floating above the earth. However, he didn’t give any indication of why he assumed it was an alien craft when he supposedly had proof that the US Navy had space capable ships! Our suspicions are aroused. We need to ponder that point.
It may well be that he made a deal with the authorities in the US that it was OK to mention an alien tube-shaped ship, but not to equate it with the mysterious ship names and rosters—neither of which he mentioned in the interview, just the belief that the image was an “alien ship.” Was this a scripted interview designed to avoid some basic, tell tale facts and shift to more exciting and dubious details?
What would be the general public’s reaction to his credibility of supposedly seeing an alien ship by hacking into files in NASA’s Building 8? --He wasn’t taken seriously. The public’s response was on the order of: “Ho-hum. Oh, sure, hacker boy, hunkered down in your attic loft, what else you got?” Who but conspiracy freaks would believe him? But if we assume that the image was of a genuine US Navy tube ship and not of the suggested alien ship, then that puts a whole new angle to the story. That would be supporting proof of the existence of US ships, the rosters and a whole lot more.
www.snotr.com... McKinnon video
(Continued to next post)
a reply to: Aliensun
Across the field of UFOs, we have witnessed fairly small craft, medium-size craft and incredible, gigantic cigar shapes that defy common imagination in size and the method of how they move through the air. In addition, many of us personally have seen massive triangles move over our heads without a sound. While the means by how they operate have been mysterious in the past, from the first sighting of any of those craft we have known that such feats are real and not magic. Principles of physics are being used or avoided to allow those attributes despite our constant clamor of reciting our long-held, self-imposed thought limits on the workings or avoidance of gravity, mass and inertia. Only fools would continue to ignore the obvious and not wonder about just what are our capabilities after all of these years of watching these craft. That is, fools and those in the know.
It long has it been observed that UFOs of all manner of shapes and sizes have an affinity for descending into and ascending out of water with apparent ease. Originally, they were thought to be crashing into the sea, but once it became known that they also burst forth from water, then that idea had to change to the more astounding one that they were, shall we say, underseaworthy. Obviously, they have the ability to live in three regimes, water, air and space. These features point up their remarkable utility of being of which we would crave.
Who’s to say that a particular type of nuclear submarine doesn’t venture out into the wide ocean, scan the area for other ships and then with “make it so…” orders from the captain, buttons are pushes and the propeller assembly becomes disengaged. Other buttons are pushed to engage the reactor’s turbine to divert power to a field-producing generator that encloses the entire ship in a charged field, creating a local region unaffected by gravity. The ship, in effect, has escaped the normal bonds of gravity, mass and inertia. Encompassed as such, it rises to the surface like a cork and on into the air if unrestrained, like a balloon. More than likely, of course, from its hiding place below the waves it would be instantly thrust upward as an immense, speeding bullet into space. Just exactly as frequently happens when an alien UFO bursts from the sea.
It is not important whether submarines are both the sea-going vehicles as we typically know them and at the same time the exact same machines that zip into space. I merely suggest that it is feasible for them to be strongly related designs, seemingly wildly different at first thought, but yet functioning quite similarly in their respective environments. Making submarine-like vehicles that secretly fly it would be an excellent way to build the vehicles in plain sight in standard shipyards before the eyes of everyone, domestic and foreign.
The question must arise, however, of whether a sea/space vehicle can be a serviceable war machine in both theaters, water and/or space. The interior mechanics would remain fairly standard except the propeller system would be inactivated in space and maneuvering would be done by a variation of the protective null-mass envelope. The reason and answer for a space capability would very much depend upon the type of armament.
The USS Pennsylvania is one of the Ohio class submarines, there are 18 members in that class and they are the largest submarines of the Navy, dwarfing the other classes. The “battleship” of the underwater fleet you could say, and heavily armed. The USS Pennsylvania is twenty years old and has not had its reactor refueled. It is 560 feet long and displaces 16,499 long tons.
The main weaponry on most Ohio class subs is 24 Trident II missiles. Those missiles on the Ohio class subs stationed variously around the world’s oceans (we are told) are the second line of defense for responding to an enemy attack and a key deterrent to preventing a first strike on our mainland from an enemy. The missiles can be fired while underwater. Perhaps they would perform even better if launched in the vacuum of space.
Given their advantage in space of a “free” altitude above any target and the lack of atmospheric resistance during much of their “climb-out” phase, they would command a far larger targetable area and be more variable in the approach to the target. In effect, their unique launch position would cause their actual range to equal or exceed that of most ICBMs. Resource by resource, sea patrol or space patrol, the extra effort to attain the space position would be golden over the typical. And the last thing you would want to do is to talk about it.
The Ohio class subs currently cost approximately 2+ billion each, about equal to the cost of a B-2 bomber and are far more efficient, reliable and durable. Plans are underway to built 12 new Ohio class subs at a cost of about 4.9 billion each by 2029. We have to wonder why the expense projections have more than doubled. Perhaps the “sea” of space is beckoning for longer voyages of these craft made bigger and more complex. Construction is expected to begin in 2021.
Rethinking Nuclear Submarines
Second part
Across the field of UFOs, we have witnessed fairly small craft, medium-size craft and incredible, gigantic cigar shapes that defy common imagination in size and the method of how they move through the air. In addition, many of us personally have seen massive triangles move over our heads without a sound. While the means by how they operate have been mysterious in the past, from the first sighting of any of those craft we have known that such feats are real and not magic. Principles of physics are being used or avoided to allow those attributes despite our constant clamor of reciting our long-held, self-imposed thought limits on the workings or avoidance of gravity, mass and inertia. Only fools would continue to ignore the obvious and not wonder about just what are our capabilities after all of these years of watching these craft. That is, fools and those in the know.
It long has it been observed that UFOs of all manner of shapes and sizes have an affinity for descending into and ascending out of water with apparent ease. Originally, they were thought to be crashing into the sea, but once it became known that they also burst forth from water, then that idea had to change to the more astounding one that they were, shall we say, underseaworthy. Obviously, they have the ability to live in three regimes, water, air and space. These features point up their remarkable utility of being of which we would crave.
Who’s to say that a particular type of nuclear submarine doesn’t venture out into the wide ocean, scan the area for other ships and then with “make it so…” orders from the captain, buttons are pushes and the propeller assembly becomes disengaged. Other buttons are pushed to engage the reactor’s turbine to divert power to a field-producing generator that encloses the entire ship in a charged field, creating a local region unaffected by gravity. The ship, in effect, has escaped the normal bonds of gravity, mass and inertia. Encompassed as such, it rises to the surface like a cork and on into the air if unrestrained, like a balloon. More than likely, of course, from its hiding place below the waves it would be instantly thrust upward as an immense, speeding bullet into space. Just exactly as frequently happens when an alien UFO bursts from the sea.
It is not important whether submarines are both the sea-going vehicles as we typically know them and at the same time the exact same machines that zip into space. I merely suggest that it is feasible for them to be strongly related designs, seemingly wildly different at first thought, but yet functioning quite similarly in their respective environments. Making submarine-like vehicles that secretly fly it would be an excellent way to build the vehicles in plain sight in standard shipyards before the eyes of everyone, domestic and foreign.
The question must arise, however, of whether a sea/space vehicle can be a serviceable war machine in both theaters, water and/or space. The interior mechanics would remain fairly standard except the propeller system would be inactivated in space and maneuvering would be done by a variation of the protective null-mass envelope. The reason and answer for a space capability would very much depend upon the type of armament.
The USS Pennsylvania is one of the Ohio class submarines, there are 18 members in that class and they are the largest submarines of the Navy, dwarfing the other classes. The “battleship” of the underwater fleet you could say, and heavily armed. The USS Pennsylvania is twenty years old and has not had its reactor refueled. It is 560 feet long and displaces 16,499 long tons.
The main weaponry on most Ohio class subs is 24 Trident II missiles. Those missiles on the Ohio class subs stationed variously around the world’s oceans (we are told) are the second line of defense for responding to an enemy attack and a key deterrent to preventing a first strike on our mainland from an enemy. The missiles can be fired while underwater. Perhaps they would perform even better if launched in the vacuum of space.
Given their advantage in space of a “free” altitude above any target and the lack of atmospheric resistance during much of their “climb-out” phase, they would command a far larger targetable area and be more variable in the approach to the target. In effect, their unique launch position would cause their actual range to equal or exceed that of most ICBMs. Resource by resource, sea patrol or space patrol, the extra effort to attain the space position would be golden over the typical. And the last thing you would want to do is to talk about it.
The Ohio class subs currently cost approximately 2+ billion each, about equal to the cost of a B-2 bomber and are far more efficient, reliable and durable. Plans are underway to built 12 new Ohio class subs at a cost of about 4.9 billion each by 2029. We have to wonder why the expense projections have more than doubled. Perhaps the “sea” of space is beckoning for longer voyages of these craft made bigger and more complex. Construction is expected to begin in 2021.
a reply to: Aliensun
He actually stated that he was originally searching for evidence of UFO's, and then stumbled on these Navy files with names of officers 'off world'...he wasn't originally searching for evidence of such Navy 'spaceships'.
Nor did he give in the interview any indication that he believed that we actually had a mysterious fleet in space even though he earlier had professed that his goal to find factual data to prove his suspicions that the unregistered ships were actually manned spaceships.
He actually stated that he was originally searching for evidence of UFO's, and then stumbled on these Navy files with names of officers 'off world'...he wasn't originally searching for evidence of such Navy 'spaceships'.
Your first post has me thinking about atomic aircraft design.
The Air Force modified an existing bomber design to test the feasibility of an ever patrolling, never landing Nuclear powered bombing platform. The designs were scrapped (shelved?) due to being impractical because of the levels of radiation shielding to the crew compartments that would be required to protect the crew...it would simply be too heavy and too large (ignoring the dangers involving a crash / accident to those on the ground below).
They obviously were not thinking laterally at that time, as the dream of an atomic aircraft can be realised without any additional shielding to the bomber or it's crew compartment.
The solution is simple;
Build the reactor into an aerodynamic lifting body frame...and tow it behind the bomber. Since it was never going to land, it wouldn't require consideration for that. Although, if required for emergencies etc, it could feasibly be winched back into the main craft, timed to provide only a minimum of exposure to the crew during the time it takes to make an emergency landing.
Picture it...tethered to the bomber, being towed behind at a distance sufficient to nullify the radiation danger to the main aircraft and crew. NO requirement for extra shielding to the main aircraft.
In times of war, an enemy targeting this set-up flying over their territory would be extremely unwilling to blow it out of the sky, either air to air, or from the ground, as they would essentially be inviting a large dirty bomb to fall into their own laps.
Of course, these days crew shielding is a moot point now we have automated drones flying around...any number of which can be nuclear powered, either directly via a small onboard atomic reactor, or via nuclear batteries much like the curiosity rover (and Viking landers) used for power.
The Air Force modified an existing bomber design to test the feasibility of an ever patrolling, never landing Nuclear powered bombing platform. The designs were scrapped (shelved?) due to being impractical because of the levels of radiation shielding to the crew compartments that would be required to protect the crew...it would simply be too heavy and too large (ignoring the dangers involving a crash / accident to those on the ground below).
They obviously were not thinking laterally at that time, as the dream of an atomic aircraft can be realised without any additional shielding to the bomber or it's crew compartment.
The solution is simple;
Build the reactor into an aerodynamic lifting body frame...and tow it behind the bomber. Since it was never going to land, it wouldn't require consideration for that. Although, if required for emergencies etc, it could feasibly be winched back into the main craft, timed to provide only a minimum of exposure to the crew during the time it takes to make an emergency landing.
Picture it...tethered to the bomber, being towed behind at a distance sufficient to nullify the radiation danger to the main aircraft and crew. NO requirement for extra shielding to the main aircraft.
In times of war, an enemy targeting this set-up flying over their territory would be extremely unwilling to blow it out of the sky, either air to air, or from the ground, as they would essentially be inviting a large dirty bomb to fall into their own laps.
Of course, these days crew shielding is a moot point now we have automated drones flying around...any number of which can be nuclear powered, either directly via a small onboard atomic reactor, or via nuclear batteries much like the curiosity rover (and Viking landers) used for power.
edit on 26-7-2015 by MysterX because: added text
Who’s to say that a particular type of nuclear submarine doesn’t venture out into the wide ocean, scan the area for other ships and then with “make it so…” orders from the captain, buttons are pushes and the propeller assembly becomes disengaged. Other buttons are pushed to engage the reactor’s turbine to divert power to a field-producing generator that encloses the entire ship in a charged field, creating a local region unaffected by gravity. The ship, in effect, has escaped the normal bonds of gravity, mass and inertia. Encompassed as such, it rises to the surface like a cork and on into the air if unrestrained, like a balloon. More than likely, of course, from its hiding place below the waves it would be instantly thrust upward as an immense, speeding bullet into space. Just exactly as frequently happens when an alien UFO bursts from the sea.
I know it's a flippant answer, but I just can't help it. It's the truth. We know they don't have this technology, because the Joint Chiefs are not walking around with a constant erection and hooked up to a fluid IV due to continuous orgasm. We'd have to replace half the Pentagon. They'd stroke out [ No pun intended ] if a weapon like that was developed.
Early experimental reactor to power a bomber… thank god it never 'flew'. Been enough nuclear accidents…
link to image
Robert Del Tredici photo of jet 'power plant'
link to image
Robert Del Tredici photo of jet 'power plant'
edit on 26-7-2015 by intrptr
because: additional
And the simplest and most obvious explanation to all this is that he found a treasure trove of honey pot material left as a trap for anyone trying to
hack their way into NASA's servers. Even fake, he would still have to go to court for the hack. I say he found nothing, as boring as it sounds.
originally posted by: CAPT PROTON
And the simplest and most obvious explanation to all this is that he found a treasure trove of honey pot material left as a trap for anyone trying to hack their way into NASA's servers. Even fake, he would still have to go to court for the hack. I say he found nothing, as boring as it sounds.
It wouldn't be the first time. I've run into several run by DOE.
There is a military base in Hawaii that is capable of handling sea, undersea, air and space traffic. It would be a perfect location for something like
this. It is called the Barking Sands Missile Range Navy Base.
Source
Other than that, it holds another record. It is the one and only military installation in the world that can support multiple operations for planes, ships, spaceships and submarines at the same time.
Source
a reply to: Aliensun
Let me get this straight in case I've misunderstood. The USAF couldn't work out how to make a nuclear powered bomber. So given their lack of interest and know-how somehow the US Navy managed to invent nuclear technology that could make a submarine, not only travel under water but also provide the power to lift it into the air (something the USAF couldn't do with their planes) and then travel into space as well?
The US Air Force decided that it wanted an atomic powered bomber that could reach anywhere in the world non-stop without refueling. It dreamed of giant planes that could stay in the air on indefinite patrol, possibly only coming down every few weeks for crew rotation. Obviously an impossible dream, but they set to work toward that goal. Two B-36 bombers were dedicated to be modified to carry experimental reactors. ...As the saying goes, the air force went off half-cocked in their efforts. As an experimental unit, the reactor was hung under the belly of the B-36. It provided no power for propelling the plane.
Let me get this straight in case I've misunderstood. The USAF couldn't work out how to make a nuclear powered bomber. So given their lack of interest and know-how somehow the US Navy managed to invent nuclear technology that could make a submarine, not only travel under water but also provide the power to lift it into the air (something the USAF couldn't do with their planes) and then travel into space as well?
a reply to: Aliensun
Yes, my friend, Gary McKinnon is covered somewhere here in this incredible just-released whistleblower overview of the secret space program:
Whistleblower's website
Yes, my friend, Gary McKinnon is covered somewhere here in this incredible just-released whistleblower overview of the secret space program:
Whistleblower's website
edit on 26-7-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition
I remember reading about McKinnon and his hacking adventures and one thing that sticks out was his comments about being guided by someone or something
else through those files. Also I never heard any sort of names for those ships he supposedly saw. I`m hoping one day he would mention a few of those
names, and hoping even more at least one of them is called the Kraken.
Now if it were possible that there are interstellar ships piloted by Earthborn humans why even continue to build others in the atmosphere with all its gravity, weather and other hazardous bs.? If its possible to build starships then it seems logical that establishing a base offworld is also possible and then there would be no need for secrecy here on Earth. Even with automated construction you would still need a sizable group of people to operate various functions and they would have to keep their mouths and keyboards to themselves, a break-away civilization as it were.
Now if it were possible that there are interstellar ships piloted by Earthborn humans why even continue to build others in the atmosphere with all its gravity, weather and other hazardous bs.? If its possible to build starships then it seems logical that establishing a base offworld is also possible and then there would be no need for secrecy here on Earth. Even with automated construction you would still need a sizable group of people to operate various functions and they would have to keep their mouths and keyboards to themselves, a break-away civilization as it were.
edit on
26-7-2015 by StratosFear because: autocorect needed correcting
Back in the 1970`s Pan Am (yeah that Pan Am, the airline) owned a nuclear engine test facility in Arizona. so, if they were working on a nuclear
aircraft engine back in the 1970`s imagine how much progress they have made on it over the last 35+ years.
originally posted by: tubbytick
a reply to: intrptr
That would have to be one massive aircraft to house a reactor like that, seems too much like science fiction than scrapped plans
Hi tubby tick. welcome to ATS! Yah, the reactor was too heavy, the thrust from the engines too weak to sustain flight and the exhaust was radioactive.
Oh well, they had big plans back then. Even the power plants themselves are dangerous as we saw in Fukushima.
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