Misandry in the Media ~Fat, Lazy, and Stupid American Men

a reply to: mOjOm

It's not about being mistreated. I would much rather be a man than a women. If you spend a considerable amount of time with them you know. I had to escort my OLDER female cousins and men would stalk and harrass them. That is something as a man you would never have to deal with. Being mindraped by the media of what is acceptable as a woman (same for men but in a different way). It was just things that I noticed from being around women my whole, eye opening things I never have to worry about as a man. They are trying mto mind rape and destroy both genders but trust it is a little rougher for women 1.

a reply to: christophoros
I was stalked by my ex after I left her. Had to get a no contact order against her. She even put a GPS tracker in my car. To say men don't get stalked is incorrect. I'm sure women get stalked more than men. It took months of dealing with her for me to do anything about it. Most men don't like to look like a victim.

I don't give a #. I don't need this counter argument to exist. I think it's ridiculous when women do it, and based on the men in my life, it's not a discussion we've ever stressed. Making it a big issue will convince some people that it is, but I think most men are fine.

When I see characters on TV it doesn't reflect me on any level. It's a weird thing to feel. I've heard people say "Cosby's character was a father figure to me" but I've never felt so deeply attached to a character. TV never satisfied an emotional need for me. I think we should discourage it, it's not worth the counter argument.

a reply to: FlyingWhale

And that's where masculinity goes wrong men don't confront their issues they are taught to be strong.

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: FlyingWhale

And that's where masculinity goes wrong men don't confront their issues they are taught to be strong.

I think the learned behavior line of thinking is exaggerated. Men and women do have different emotional needs. It's evolution. If I don't meet the expectation of slumping over in tears, it's not because I learned to suppress emotions. If I was was taught anything it was to know my self worth. This is a good thing to teach. My parents didn't smother me when I cried. My tears never got unnecessary validation. If that is teaching me to be tough, Thank god. We need more of that.

a reply to: mahatche

What does scratching your knee as a child and not being smothered have to do with deep seeded emotional issues or depression?

I have always ignored these things myself, and continue to hold a door open for people, not just the ladies, and sometimes I have experienced a non responsive woman when doing a courtesy like holding open a door, but never cared about it. Perhaps she was thinking "what was he expecting, a big kiss for holding the door open?" I never worried about it. Some people are pretty stuck on themselves and it usually shows, but that shouldn't stop being polite.

It helps being as handsome a guy as I am, but I never gloat over it.. .

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: mahatche

What does scratching your knee as a child and not being smothered have to do with deep seeded emotional issues or depression?

You are using masculinity and "learning to be tough" as if they are problematic. You can't make the argument, then say what does it have to do with anything. You introduced it, and see it as the cause of the deep seeded emotional issues.

I'm saying I don't want people to stop teaching their sons to be tough. Tough is a good thing. I think the degree to which those issues exist is exaggerated. I think men are biologically less emotional. It's psychology 101, any text book will point it out. We should stop forcing the "social construct" argument with such complete disregard for science. Masculinity exists as it does because it's been beneficial for millions of years. Our brain structures are undeniably different. Some of these "toxic masculinity" concepts are the same qualities that drove humanity to the heights we've reached. Competition and aggression have their good sides, so does being tough.

I don't feel emotionally over whelmed, because I just don't feel it. It's not there for me to suppress, but every woman I've ever known cries constantly. I don't think I'm the one who got the short end of that stick.

a reply to: FlyingWhale

ME too pal...she knwe Tie Kwon Do..
WE ARE cool.

a reply to: mahatche

Hey there is enough toughness in the male community. You know what there isn't? Responsibility,leadership,communication,empathy, and a whole bunch of other thing we are good in the tough department.

Who cares how media or society portrays men? If you want to combat such stereotypes, you have to man-up and be that which you want to portray.

I open doors for everyone, including young women. Some are grateful, some are not.

They don't have to thank me, I just do it.

I don't care what other people perceive what a man to be and I just do what I think is best. Screw everything else.

originally posted by: christophoros
Hey there is enough toughness in the male community. You know what there isn't? Responsibility,leadership,communication,empathy, and a whole bunch of other thing we are good in the tough department.

You are confusing 'thugness' with 'toughness'.

You know what tough is?
Being responsible when those around you won't be.
Leading those around you through the good and the bad, not just the good.
Communicating even when you know the communication is unfavourable to the recipient.
Showing empathy to those that need it, regardless of what those around you think.

We need far less 'thuggery', and far more 'toughness'.

originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: ghostrager

I've noticed that it is not socially accepted to acknowledge sexism against males in the US culture.

I put up an article on Facebook the other day about the legal rights women have in the US, that men do not. Pure facts.
An uneasy "silence" came from my american family (usually all vocal about many social issues).
My kids "liked" it, and my french friends asked me , hey, were those true?
The men have rights here that they do not have in the US, so they had trouble believing it.
My kids weren't raised in the US, so they had no idea they were being "innppropriate" in even liking and commenting on it - I felt kinda bad about that - I knew I was risking disapproval with the family, they didn't. They didn't know these were facts that are not to be spoken of.

But I repeatedly find it funny how in a "Patriarchial" culture, it is socially unacceptable to support rights for men, and fashionable, and praised, to support women's rights (even to denigrate men).

Shouldn't it be the other way around, if this is a Patriarchy???

The thing is, I agree with you.

I've been in the "social justice" movement in a variety of ways since about 2005, and that's mostly me working with others on various anti-poverty and anti-racism initiatives.

However, having adopted a framework for analyzing bigotry, prejudice, stereotyping, sexism, etc, I became 100% clear that people had a double standard when it came to the same directed at either males or white people. Suddenly, that very same critical lens would be mysteriously absent in most of my colleagues.

All one has to do is look at so many FB posts such as "Haha, don't 'manterupt'" or "only men 'mansplain'" and are arrogant, etc.

Also all of the statements and posts about "all white people are ___ ____ ___," to which there is usually either a resounding silence on the part of people I know OR even worse, laughter, applause, and agreement.

Yes, it IS socially unacceptable in the US to acknowledge either kind of bigotry.

I myself have experienced people either calling me out or even going cold on me after I publicly addressed some sexist statements about men or racist statements about whites.

Men's versus women's rights:

Let's be clear, men in our society have and do experience more intrinsic privilege and historically rights.

However, part of the patriarchy is that where men are seen to be better leaders and workers, women are seen to be inherently better parents. Hence, women DO experience far better outcomes in family courts.

With my court case for my six year old, I had three lawyers advising me: My mother (corporate lawyer), my aunt (family law attorney), and my actual lawyer, a female family law lawyer. All three without a doubt said that the courts are biased in favor of women in family law. This is demonstrable via statistics too.

Also, when it comes to rape or abuse allegations women almost always win.

What are the other examples of laws or rights you cited?

originally posted by: amazing
OP, you're half right. You made a good point that men are portrayed as stupid, fat and lazy in sitcoms and commercials. LOL Really good point. The most famous men on TV perhaps being Homer Simpson, and Al Bundy.

However, that doesn't negatively affect/effect men in any meaningful way.. Neither does the Father's day commercial or anything like that.

There is NO War on Family values. That's a myth perpetrated by the "poor me" crowd. Those weak males that have no backbone and can't take responsibility for their own lives. They must find someone to blame and that of course is Women.

Grow a pair mates and take responsibility for your own lives. I do. No woman walks all over me. The non existent war on family fails to hurt me or my family.

The truth is that men are CEOs and presidents of most of the big companies in the world. Men make more films. Men make up most of the military and military leadership in the world. Men make more money than women. Men generally have more power than women. Men make up most of the world leaders and men hold most political offices in the US

Stop being victims and take control of your lives.

I agree with you that we still live in a "man's world." But I disagree whole-heartedly with your idea that there are not negative effects in society of stereotyping men negatively.

You are presenting the same argument people make when they say "White people and society can't experience any negative effects from stereotyping or anti-white bigotry so there is no problem and stop discussing it."

There are all kinds of pernicious effects of bigotry of any kind, including division within society, inter-personal offense, possible mistreatment of a male in a certain situation.

I would like to take the opportunity right now to address the limits of the social justice model "Sexism or Racism is only real when directed towards women or minorities(non-whites) because both require systemic power to have real impact." What you are saying is a derivative of that.

I'll give a great example of how there can be micro-power systems governed by a female or minority, systems that can be brought to bear on a white or male.

This past spring I spent three months going through a rigorous application process for an Analyst position with the New York City Council. I did three interviews, I had an inside reference, I submitted a portfolio of work samples, and they had no less than three full conversations with references. My contact and the Deputy Director (who interviewed me 2/3 of the times) said that the office wanted to hire me and I had beat all of the competition.

At the last minute, my hire was cancelled by a higher up in the chain, either at City Hall or the final interviewer (who was a director and both African American and female).

BOTH my internal contact and the Deputy Director stated that the reason they think I didn't get the job that I basically was going to be hired for was because they didn't want a white male.

So, here is an example of how a micro-system (i.e. not our entire society) had power wielded by a city council that is extremely diverse (ethnically, sexual orientation, and gender. There is an entire LGBT caucus within the city council), and how such power was wielded to prevent my hire.

That is a tangible, substantial, very negative impact of discrimination towards me.

So I say to people who say "Men or white people cannot experience 'real discrimination' in our society" that its bullocks.

I actually initiated an initial EEOC complaint a couple of days ago about it.

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: ghostrager

So your trying to force women into marriage I don't get it? What exactly is your solution to stop divorce rate? My mom is divorced she didn't decide to do it on a whim. My dad was a piece of sht adulterer. You do know you have to cite reasons for getting divorced right? You seem to be pointing the finger at women for divorce rates when it is literally one of the hardest things a women can do. You know taking care of kids with no help and financial insecurity. Women totally want that! Come on if men had the balls and weren't so egotistical and listened to their partners maybe women wouldn't divorce them.

Hold on a second, all stereotypes are bad.

A lot of women are "POS adulterers" too. It's all case by case basis.

My ex, the mother of my child, literally cheated on me, and then took off across the country and moved from Arizona home to Pennsylvania, putting 2700 miles between my kid and I. I had to move to the east coast for him to have a father, even though she created the situation!

You know how these negative stereotypes of men played out in MY life?

Even to this day, even though she factually cheated and admitted it, and factually basically abandoned me and took off, people often assume that I'm the deadbeat or "why aren't you two together?" For YEARS until recently people blamed me for the distance between my child and I, even though I didn't create it!

The reason: because most people (male and female) are operating off a stereotype of men being the abusers and single mothers always being in the right and them being the victims.

Sometimes, fathers and men are the victims, as well as the children caught in the crossfire.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I feel you but that dude I was responding to was trying to generalize and point the finger at women. I just used an example it is usually implied that we are not speaking of all people when I talk of my dad. The problem is not the genders themselves but people not willing to struggle or empathize with their significant other.

originally posted by: christophoros
a reply to: mahatche

Hey there is enough toughness in the male community. You know what there isn't? Responsibility,leadership,communication,empathy, and a whole bunch of other thing we are good in the tough department.

You talk about good qualities as if they are problematic. You see tough people as trouble makers. You have things backward. Sensitivity makes communication damn near impossible. No one can handle differences of opinion. You can't communicate with out being tough. Responsibility and leadership means making some people unhappy. People that lack toughness wear themselves out trying to please everyone.

And men have perfectly fine levels of empathy. We may not do back flips through meadows on the way to wipe our friends tears away, but every non sociopath I know feels empathy. What's wrong with maintaining the balance in how we handle problems? Sometimes going to mom felt best, but my dads tough love was also right. The emotional approach has it's value, but it shouldn't come at the cost of toughness.

I'm so tired of people viewing the world through the framing of identity politics. Throwing masculinity through the mud like it's a bad thing with no value. Anyone who defends masculinity is treated like an insecure MRA. No, sorry masculinity is a good thing, we need balance.

a reply to: christophoros

My adult son has talked about this since he was about 13 or 14. He often asks where the strong men are on TV, and why is it that so many girls seem to prefer very thin men with smaller muscles to very muscular men. (He naturally looks like a battle ready Viking, so he knows he won't ever be that 'ideal'.)

I've taken it to be just another assault on body image, just like women have dealt with all these years where the thin model type body most of us will never have is held as the ideal.

That TV Magic box really does have some weird power. My son at 16 had self esteem issues because he was growing into a man looking more like Brock Lesner than like a thin anemic looking anime character so many of the girls fawn over, that he wouldn't even NOTICE when the girls were tripping over themselves trying to get his attention.

Anyway, as a mom, I see it too. For me though, the ideal man will always be a strong, hard worker with strong family values. I like Ross Poldark's character in the new Poldark. I try to support shows like that.

in comedies on TV, men are mostly presented as being overweight, and/or dumb...Charlie sheen being the exception. he was good looking, successful, witty, a take charge type of guy, so of course, they made him out to be a drunken, chauvinistic, non-committal, with the emotional maturity of an 10 yr old boy......however, dramas are quite the opposite, with men being presented as being mature-thinking, in good physical condition, and emotional stalwarts. to me, it's your outlook on life, and how secure you feel with yourself....with I might add, the ability to let a lot of this crap go in one ear and out the other.