Idaho city’s ordinance tells pastors to marry gays or go to jail

Religion and homosexuality need to coexist.

Now that gay marriage is a thing like it ought to be, we've got our freedom. Churches that want to say NO should have theirs. Besides, the friendly ones that say YES will become very popular among the gay community.

We don't expect that a Muslin has the right to marry in a Christian church, so there is a sound precedent for religion to discriminate at their discretion here.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Religion and homosexuality need to coexist.

They do....sometimes. Buddhists have no problem here. Natural/spiritual thinking has no problem. Of the Abrahamic faiths the Jews are the most tolerant.

If gays have the right to marry, pastors also have the right not to marry them. They can't have it both ways.

originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
If gays have the right to marry, pastors also have the right not to marry them. They can't have it both ways.

You didn't bother to read the thread did you?

These pastors had a for profit public business. The state has a non-discrimination law including LGBT.

The pastors were in violation of state law.

They chose to change their for profit business to a non-profit church.

a reply to: DragonsDemesne

If gays have the right to marry, pastors also have the right not to marry them. They can't have it both ways.

Right but this is about for-profit wedding chapel, not church.

People don't have to worry about the government forcing churches to marry gay couples. That will never happen... EVER.

The govt ordinance is illegal as they do not have the right to tell a religious institution who they must marry.

The church should be exempt from any local, state or federal laws. Same as the local, state and federal govt is exempt from any rules of churches.

Pretty simple stuff. Geez, what is the problem?

originally posted by: Feltrick
Pretty simple stuff. Geez, what is the problem?

You didn't read the thread.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
As well as a lot of politically correct liberals and AGC supporters. Religions, their fanatics and zealots come in many different flavours. You're not exempt.

The difference being that there are no "liberals" threatening war, destruction, violence and murder against other Americans, the way a member of this very thread is seemingly doing as a fanatical "Christian".

Show me one example here of any liberal threatening violence against others.

originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
If gays have the right to marry, pastors also have the right not to marry them. They can't have it both ways.

They don't have it both ways, the law protects religious organizations and clearly states that they are not required to perform same sex marriages.

If you'd bothered to read any further than the first biased propaganda post you would have discovered that these people are NOT a part of a religious organization, they are running a business.
In addition, they were NOT threatened with arrest or fines, they CHOSE to sue the state after redefining their PRIVATE business, and changing it from a non-denominational service to a fanatical Christian preaching business claiming victim status in the hope of making money.

These people are Christians attempting to profit through deceit and propaganda.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
As well as a lot of politically correct liberals and AGC supporters. Religions, their fanatics and zealots come in many different flavours. You're not exempt.

The difference being that there are no "liberals" threatening war, destruction, violence and murder against other Americans, the way a member of this very thread is seemingly doing as a fanatical "Christian".

Show me one example here of any liberal threatening violence against others.

All you have to do is do a search on google or youtube. There are tons of physical attacks by gays, lesbians and the LGBTQ crowd. There have even been videos on ATS. You been living in a cave?

Cheers- Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

What should i Google, cause at the moment i've read 5 pages of attacks against GLBTQ+

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You don't get to define what is Christian, nor Muslim, nor Jew...
Our Holy Books have done that.

One would think so, huh? If only it were that simple with Christianity. However, besides the fact that Christians themselves can't agree on the meaning of the their own scriptures, there is the very important definition that defines what a Christian is supposed to believe in the Nicene Creed.

The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
If gays have the right to marry, pastors also have the right not to marry them. They can't have it both ways.

You didn't bother to read the thread did you?

These pastors had a for profit public business. The state has a non-discrimination law including LGBT.

The pastors were in violation of state law.

They chose to change their for profit business to a non-profit church.

Any commercial business in the secular world is fair game. Once religion is put aside, there is no excuse for refusing to supply goods and services. If a church runs a commercial business, then it's under the same rules as everyone else.

You can't discriminate against the dollar.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

What should i Google, cause at the moment i've read 5 pages of attacks against GLBTQ+

The hatred and sheer stupid ignorance will never dissolve completely. Not in our lifetime anyway. You only need look at the thorny issue of racism in America to know that while it should be extinct, there are still ignorant souls out there who think the colour of one's skin denotes superiority / inferiority as an example of persistent social issues.

Some people will never ever be able to view those different to them as equals.

Sad really.

a reply to: markosity1973

It is sad, especially when it it leads to hate and violence which is cultivated from generation to generation. for every younger person that is more accepting there are others who openly attack GLBTQ+ people and people of different Race

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Secondly, no, the Bible is pretty clear on homosexuality.

Not the New Testament.

There are references in Romans, I Corinthians and Timothy though, as you suggest, there is debate as to what specifically they are about.

Of course, in I Corinthians Paul also wrote that "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman" so we're definitely talking about salad bar Christianity.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Scholars are still discussing Christianity(Jesus' teachings) vs Paulism. I'll take the Gospels and the testaments of his apostles and not sold on Paul. AKA Saul of Tarsus.

originally posted by: rationalconsumer
From the Washington Times:

"Coeur d‘Alene, Idaho, city officials have laid down the law to Christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines."

I am declining to provide any spin or commentary on the article. However, I will engage in the discussion once it begins.

Note [correction]: this article was from October 2014.

This seems like an illegal ordinance so they shouldn't have to do it. The only possible way I could see if this were legal were if it's a small town and the local pastor also handles all of the state paperwork for everyone as part of a volunteer program. If that were the case, that pastor would have to marry gay couples, but be permitted to do so outside of a church setting.

Anyways assuming that improbable example isn't what's going on, a case like this should be trivial to win. It would never even have to go to the SCOTUS, the state supreme court would be enough, if it could even get that far. I have a hard time seeing any judge, anywhere rule in favor of the city here.

Christians will claim this is the Gay Agenda.