Violent, disturbing films...is it "just a movie"?

The subconsious mind and autonomic nervous system do not distinguish between real violence and 'fake' violence. Here's some actual research on the subject.

In 1972, the Surgeon General issued the following warning on violent TV programs: "It is clear to me that the causal relationship between televised violence and antisocial behavior is sufficient to warrant appropriate and immediate remedial action. … There comes a time when the data are sufficient to justify action. That time has come."" (Steinfeld, 1972).

ithp.org... (with references)

In fact playing violent video games and watching theatical violence desenistize one to actual violence and are used by the military to promote 'killing' ...

Several articles by Dave Grossman @ www.killology.com...

Grossman, D., "Trained to Kill: Are We Conditioning Our Children to Commit Murder?"

Christianity Today, cover story, August 10, 1998. (Received national writing award, translated and reprinted in periodicals in eight languages; and reprinted in over a dozen U.S. and Canadian periodicals, to include: Hinduism Today, US Catholic, and Saturday Evening Post.)


Grossman, D., "Teaching Kids to Kill." National Forum: Journal of the Phi Kappa Phi National Honor Society, Fall, 2000.

Grossman, D., "On Killing II: The psychological cost of learning to kill." International Journal of Emergency Mental Health, Summer 2001.

Violence in the media has been increasing and reaching proportions that are dangerous,” said Emanuel Tanay, MD, a retired Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at Wayne State University and a forensic psychiatrist for more than 50 years.

“You turn on the television, and violence is there. You go to a movie, and violence is there,” Tanay told Psychiatric Times. “Reality is distorted. If you live in a fictional world, then the fictional world becomes your reality.”

- See more at: www.psychiatrictimes.com...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ColeYounger

You're one of the types who gets angry at kids playing Grand Theft Auto and think they go out and start shooting up shopping malls because they play those games aren't you?

You very well know that it is not as simple as watch a slasher film and go out and kill people.

You are unable to dispute the research and so you resort to ad hominem?

If you have supporting references that violent videos and films don't promote delusional perception of reality - please share it with us.

"Leave it to Beaver" contributed to thousand of children thinking they and there families were abnormal - because they weren't like the Cleavers.

People spend more time in front of Screens then every before and it's clouding our ability to clearly evaluate self and others let alone reality.

I have never, in real life, see a gun battle - but not a day goes by that media doesn't project thousands of gun battles on to the consciousness of consumers. It's not truthful. Porn depicts sex that isn't normal or regular or human by any stretch of the imagination - yet young people model their behaviar, not on human role models, but on fictional alteregos.

Please don't belittle this discussion with such attacks. If you have something productive to say, and you usually do, please do so.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I know you want to believe it doesn't affect people, but the scientific research says otherwise.

It will not affect all people, and you are one of the lucky ones.

It will drastically affect up to 20% of all people.
Because around 20% of the entire population has
severe issues at any given time.

It will mildly affect 20-40% of all people, to varying
degrees of just a tiny bit, to somewhat effected.

And it will not affect around 40% of people.

But just because you are one of the 40% doesn't negate the fact that it does affect the majority of people, even if in some small and nearly unobservable way (like driving patterns just after playing a violent driving game).
You are a sample size of 1, which tells us nothing at all about how the rest of the people in the world are affected.
This is a way of thinking that one says to oneself, my personal experience is the experience of the entire world.
Well sorry, research and reality says you can not judge the behavior of all humans with a sample size of 1, your own personal experience.

As for the foreign market, Japan has stopped reproducing almost entirely.
They are just giving up as a species. Is that normal behavior?

And I would say it effects (affects???) all of us to some degree.

originally posted by: HenryLee
Perhaps we should just ban anything that anyone finds offensive. Ban history books, way to much violence in those. Definitely ban the Bible, violence again. Probably going to have to ban journalism as well. Once we ban all these things we can sit under trees weaving baskets /s

Maybe we could also stop deflecting blame away from people who commit horrendous acts, personal responsibility and all that jazz.

Please don't overreact.

No one is suggesting any Bans. As our friend Shamrock6 above points out, it's best to know the possible effects and talk honestly with your children, show them where the "Stories" we get sucked into could never happen in 'real life' (i.e. the Walking Dead - canned goods would run out and if nobody is working the fields or hunting games - everybodies going to starve - a particular peeve of mine.)

People, as you so distanfully call them, are the accumulated sum of all sense perceptions up to now. A lot of it, we have little control over if we are not conscious of how we've been conditioned by our family, media, church, club whatever.

You may love to play your video games and never kill or harm anyone physically - but how about your speech - how do you speak to people - how do you think? For most - it's a more subtle conditioning and a more subtle effect.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ColeYounger

You're one of the types who gets angry at kids playing Grand Theft Auto and think they go out and start shooting up shopping malls because they play those games aren't you?

See, you do perfectly match the 5 ways Powerful people trick you into hating underdogs, everything in those points, is what you do, and are.

LOL.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ColdNCursed
While we who are older know that they are fake events. (Despite the fact that some horror movies are based on true stories/have/are happening.)

Don't worry, any OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT REPORT that says it is based on a true story, is likely VERY embellished to the point of fiction anyways. And if it says, "inspired by true events", then all bets are off. It's probably mostly fiction.

Fixed it for ya.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: ColeYounger

I suspect rather than violent movies leading to violent action, it de-sensitizes the populace, especially youth.

It introduces a 'norm', an acceptability of violence as natural or a given.

I prefer uplifting movies. Sea Biscuit, is an example. On the other end of the scale, Seven was so negative, I was outrage by it. In most violent movies, the good guys win out in the end. One enjoys the relief from the violence and it implies 'everyone lives happily ever after'.

Seven took it to another level. No one 'won'. The bad guy, the good guy, no one...utterly depressing.

Bottom line. it what sells...

Actually that was amazingly refreshing, it showed us that for pity's sake, the good guys DO NOT have to win, and in all likelihood win less OFTEN than they win!!

Amazing that a movie that was designed for just this effect makes you angry, such a boring existence waiting for a hero, do you have any idea how stupid that really is ??

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm so tired of hearing about how us combat veterans are predisposed to violence. You do understand that there's tens of thousands of us not running around beating people up and shooting people, right?

Who's more likely to lose their crap when confronted with a potentially violent situation?

A guy who's read about them in books and took some instruction during the academy class?

Or a guy who spent 7 months dealing with violence on a nearly daily basis?

Dude I'M a combat veteran. The point is that we have training to be violent, some of us have even exercised that training in real life. That means that we are more likely to fall back on that training in situations that may not require it. Yes, I understand that many veterans don't do this, but you would be VERY dishonest if you suggested that there is no link there.

There was a paper written, I think it was for the international association of Chiefs of police, a while back that took a look at use of force by and citizen complaints against combat veterans compared to either non-military or non combat veteran law enforcement. I'll try to find it, but it showed that there may be some evidence that combat veterans are less likely to use force and less likely to receive citizen complaints than the other categories.

If you have a link, I'm ready to read it.

I know it's cool to paint all of us that have been in combat as incapable of dealing with it and because we've seen combat we are somehow predisposed to run around committing acts of violence against people but it's not really a fair shake.

*eyeroll* Stop assuming things about me.

ETA: I'm not sure why responses to me in this thread aren't showing up in my replies to threads page...

What does being a 'combat veteren' have to do with it. I grew up in the Military with 'combat vets' all around and mostly they were pretty f***d up people. Not in public, where they might dishonor the service - but on base and with their families. My Dad was one that wasn't physically or verbally violent - but in order to be so, he was completely shut down to us and died young from the stress. What he lived through in WWII and Korea gave him nighmares his whole life - we never woke him any closer then the end of the bed or couch.

Maybe if he'd had violent media (he was born in 1920) - it would have been 'easier' on him go kill strangers in a foreign land. But he never wanted to fight, simple Ohio farm boy, but was drafted and did his duty. Went from private to Colonel over the course of his career, the Army called him back up after WWII and he stayed until retirement.

I get the sense that these reactionary posts are unconscious defensive mechanisms and not rationally thought out. I'd like to be wrong.

I came up with a potentially valid argument in favor of Media Violence - but I've nothing to substainiate it whatsoever.

I understand that you may miss the 'high' of combat (See: "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi) for other ways to promote that sense of 'self-less presence' where there is no though only action.

Personally, I think that's why history glorifies war - because it's the only way most men (people) ever experience that state - but that experience is possible though many activities - perhaps gaming does it for you. Me - playing music, giving presentations, knitting on occassion.

As a 'combat vet', I'd think you would want to find other sources of 'flow' and want to leave the horrors of combat behind for something productive.

Too many unstable people in the world to say that there wouldn't be some sort of dysfunctional side effects to at least some of the populace who watch extreme violence, whether that violence is real or fake.

Watch some idiot blow up a garden shed on youtube... and somebody somewhere is going to get the bright idea to try it themselves too.

There are far too many psychological complexities, personality traits, dysfunctional logic and reasoning, neural misfirings, etc etc when it comes to the human animal for this stuff to not have an impact of some sort.

For anyone to say that there isn't any affect(s) at all, is being way too short-sighted of the bigger picture here.

originally posted by: ColeYounger
I've seen a couple recent thread comments defending extremely violent films. Well, not really defending the film, but admonishing 'overly-sensitive' people to "lighten up, it's just a movie. You're over-reacting".
It's not real. You're sitting in a theater. Your mind "knows" that this is just a film.

Now, we all know that it's not good to be 'overly' sensitive. This world can be cold and cruel at times, and will chew you up and spit you out if you're not tough. So maybe seeing some violent content and getting somewhat de-sensitized to it is good? Maybe it's somehow helping us?


But then there is the school of thought that says everything we see and hear may actually affect and influence us far more deeply than we realize. One's subconscious mind doesn't perceive it as "just a movie."
Are these images actually toxic to our minds?. You wouldn't drink poison, but you'll watch slasher movies?

Unlike drinking poison, the effects aren't immediate. They're happening to your mind. (One could easily argue that it's not good to see someone getting their head chopped off. Period. Real or not. On any level.)

We've probably heard stories about parents letting their kids watch horror movies. My sister had a friend (a single mother) who let her
6 and 8 year- old son and daughter watch 'Jeepers Creepers'. A sensible person would agree that this is irresponsible. Like many "adult"
behaviors, does it somehow become OK to watch this stuff when one turns 16? 18?

I have to agree! Garbage in equals garbage out! Geez I was freaked out when I saw "Jeepers Creepers" and I was like 35 when I saw it!

For awhile I was watching way to much news at nite and I did notice I would get angry, tense, and worried while doing do. I have cut back and watch more light hearted stuff. Definitely makes a difference!

a reply to: FyreByrd

This post is completely irrelevant to what I was saying and makes zero sense in context. Did you even read what I was saying to that person? Because the only reason I told him that I was a combat veteran was because he was accusing me of belittling veterans which he alluded to him being a part of. So I told him that I was also one to drive the point that I'm not just talking out my ass about this group of people.

In fact, if you had read my other responses to that poster, you'd see that I told him that I'm a non-violent person despite liking violent media. Reading your two responses to me in this thread, I'd suggest you go back and read my other posts in this thread before responding to this one.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ColdNCursed
While we who are older know that they are fake events. (Despite the fact that some horror movies are based on true stories/have/are happening.)

Don't worry, any OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT REPORT that says it is based on a true story, is likely VERY embellished to the point of fiction anyways. And if it says, "inspired by true events", then all bets are off. It's probably mostly fiction.

Fixed it for ya.

No... It was correct as written. Movies that say they are based on true stories are likely very embellished to the point of fiction. Your correction is silly and unprovable, not to mention steers the conversation off topic.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Thank you for your comments. You obviously understood the OP!
More and more, I'm seeing ATS members post comments that are not only knee-jerk, they're barely tangental to the OP.

Apparently people are still thinking that my OP says: "If you watch a violent movie, you'll leave the theater and go out and commit violent acts." I didn't even infer that.

I'm saying that there is evidence that the subconscious mind does NOT differentiate
between "real" versus "just a movie." You're not winning an argument by repeatedly telling me "I know that it's just a movie". There is no argument here. I'm trying to discuss the idea that imagery may affect us more than we think.
Maybe far more. That maybe it can't be just brushed off so easily.


That's the subject I wanted to discuss.

I'm on disability for severe PTSD, so my reactions are magnified...but I say yes, watching movies certainly affects your brain in ways you don't realize. I can't go to movie theaters because of the noise level, but even at home I can't watch movies with realistic violence. If I'm in the throes of a PTSD episode I can't even watch cartoon violence (for instance, in 'Megamind' the cartoon cops were pointing cartoon guns and I panicked). One time I walked into the living room while my dad was watching 'Stalingrad'....I was outside in the driveway before I realized what I was doing. Again, this is an exaggerated response due to my condition, but it is definitely there.

I would add that I let my 6 year old watch horror movies, but we also watch the SyFy show 'Face Off' to see how special effects are done and we've watched documentaries on how movies are made. We only watch the ridiculous ones, I would never let her watch some crap like 'Saw'...aka torture porn. She just caught 2 baby frogs and named them 'Freddy' and 'Krueger' but other than that she has not displayed one unsavory action that could be linked to watching scary movies. It's all about moderation and being there as a parent to guide them through things, like start a discussion about why what you're watching is wrong and make sure they understand it's not real.

a reply to: sirlancelot

I 100% agree. I have to limit my news intake as well. I will skim headlines just for the sake of being informed, but if I delve too deep I become depressed and anxious.

People just need to be more aware that everything, positive and negative, seeps into your subconscious. Just acknowledging this fact consciously will help people process things in a more healthy way.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: FyreByrd

This post is completely irrelevant to what I was saying and makes zero sense in context. Did you even read what I was saying to that person? Because the only reason I told him that I was a combat veteran was because he was accusing me of belittling veterans which he alluded to him being a part of. So I told him that I was also one to drive the point that I'm not just talking out my ass about this group of people.

In fact, if you had read my other responses to that poster, you'd see that I told him that I'm a non-violent person despite liking violent media. Reading your two responses to me in this thread, I'd suggest you go back and read my other posts in this thread before responding to this one.

You are correct - I read your post and saw what I wanted to see (or am conditioned to see by my experience) and overreacted.

This is a subject that has concerned me for a long time. To the point of not allowing my daughter easy access to any mass media. We still had TV in the home and listened to the radio - but never when children were present. She was able to see TV at other's homes. One of the reasons we chose the school we did was because of their adament 'no media' policy.

When my family returned home from Germany (I'd never been in the States before), I remember the first time I watched TV while waiting for our family car (singular btw) to be offloaded - what I remember is the advertisments. It took me a number of years to recognized how intrusive that was on a young mind (I was six at the time).

Once you've seen something whether it be in person/in real life or fictional you can never get that picture, feeling, sound out of your mind ever again (unless it's so tramatic as to trigger suppression - which real live trauma does - to protect the mind but 'projected violence' doesn't have that escape clause - interesting idea). There are a lot of images and sounds that I wish I could remove from my mind that I can't. I can tell myself it's just a movie (my parents did after me being terrifid by "The Green Barrets" and know that's true but it never goes away.

I think at the very least it desensitizes us to things we should be more disturbed about when they happen in real life.
It's not if, but rather how much.

I have also heard a theory that todays most violent entertainment is preparing people right now, for exactly those times, which are ahead of us, in almost all the scenario's human life is reduced to very little value.

Circa Rwanda 94

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I think at the very least it desensitizes us to things we should be more disturbed about when they happen in real life.
It's not if, but rather how much.

I have also heard a theory that todays most violent entertainment is preparing people right now, for exactly those times, which are ahead of us, in almost all the scenario's human life is reduced to very little value.

Circa Rwanda 94

Look at all the apocolyptic storys now - I haven't see a good utopia for ages.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ColdNCursed
While we who are older know that they are fake events. (Despite the fact that some horror movies are based on true stories/have/are happening.)

Don't worry, any movie that says it is based on a true story, is likely VERY embellished to the point of fiction anyways. And if it says, "inspired by true events", then all bets are off. It's probably mostly fiction.

We should worry.

It is not one film
one TV show
playing one game
that causes problems,
it is the constant and consistent
bombardment of the message:
killing people is the way to solve problems
beating people is the way to solve problems
good guys shoot first and ask questions later
good guys beat the cr-- out of people, or kill them,
and are rewarded for it.

Worst of all are the hollywood hypocrites:

who scream about violence in real life
then stuff it down the throats of people:

who tell police through their shows
that the best way is to kill first then ask questions:
then get angry when the police kill:

who demonstrate how to commit mass murder
and then become enraged when someone commits mass murder:

who say guns are the problem - when they are teaching people how to use
guns in the most horrific and inappropriate ways imaginable

Your post made me think about WWE wrestling. They beat the crap out of each other, then do anti-bullying commercials ! Apparently, they can't see how ridiculous this looks.

a reply to: grandmakdw

We probably dont agree all the time, but I wanted to say thanks for the links you provided, and to say I agree with just about everything you have said in this thread!
I threw my television out many years ago because the bias made me angry (affected me!) and I am just so sick of the never ending stream violence.
Television (any media) could be such a wonderful thing if it was used to properly educate, but instead it fills our lives with a never ending stream of rape murder torture etc, and in as much gory detail as possible, on an hourly basis, 24/7/365.
IMO, those who say "it hasn't affected me" have already been desensitised, thats why they think it doesn't affect them.