Long Beach Police Officer Kills unarmed 20 year old college student

a reply to: Answer

I agree again. It is hard to find facts; exactly what I've been pointing out.
As I've said before, I've dealt with more than my fair share of intoxicated and aggravated, scared, out-of-control young folks. Not nearly as many as someone involved in law enforcement or corrections but a goodly number over 25 years of living and working with college students like this young man. But never, ever, in all those encounters did I even entertain the idea of needing to shoot the stupid kid.
That officer was incompetent. (Just like the one in the video someone posted.) He may have gone "by the book" where she did not, but his incompetence and fear caused that young man's death. His brain was frozen in fear, causing a cessation of the ability to think critically. What was in his bloodstream that would cause such a reaction?
There were at least one firetruck full of fire fighters nearby. Those people are in fine physical condition and have seen their share of drunk, distraught people. Why in the name of all that's holy couldn't that cop have looked around him and said, "Can I get some assistance getting this guy some help?" Paramedics were there along with the firetruck, according to one of the witnesses. But all the cop could do was scream, tazer, and shoot. That is incompetence.

Was his temporary freeze-up caused by some chemical he ingested?
We'll never know until drug testing is used on police. Broad spectrum drug testing, not just for illegal substances. We need to know what is causing these officers to be so paranoid that they are shooting clearly unarmed people.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: diggindirt
No, I think someone high on drugs / crazy, coming at you aggressively after instructions to stop, after using non lethal force methods, should.

Senseless loss of life? It's rather simple dont you think? Person doesnt try and attack someone after multiple warnings and non lethal force, and person lives.

I sincerely hope that neither you nor a family member is identified (even mistakenly) as high on drugs/crazy. See, when you're intoxicated, no matter what the substance, you have trouble following commands. Especially when those commands are being screamed at you.
This officer wasn't a rookie. He should have had better sense than to approach someone described as intoxicated and injured from a fall by screaming. The screaming is the thing that all the witnesses I heard agree upon, the cop was screaming at the young man who had his hands above his head. Then he shot him multiple times.
What would cause a rational person to behave that way? Paranoia. Why was he paranoid of an unarmed man with blood running down his body and his hands above his head?
Those drug tests I speak so of so often would give a more complete picture of this situation.

a reply to: diggindirt

Paramedics and firefighters will "stage" in situations like this.

They will usually park a block away from the location of the incident until the police give the all clear.

If the officer asked for the paramedics and firefighters to come help him subdue the person they would not be allowed to do so.

In the city I used to work for the paramedics would stage down the street until we gave the all clear, even for two juveniles fist fighting...

So your idea is simply out of the question.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig
Man, that's messed-up.
Our fire fighters and paramedics help the cops all the time. At least they assist the county sheriff's department. I know because I've seen some of the bumps and bruises they've gotten in the process.
So, why not back off and wait for someone who could help?
You're a cop. What would make you afraid of a young, bloody man who was reported to be intoxicated, "irrate" and "a little bit violent" but unarmed? This is a sincere question because this has completely mystified me. What about that situation could have made him freeze up and take a life?
I spent some time this afternoon talking with a couple of dear friends about this case. One is a retired police chief from a small college town. The other is a retired jailer. They had no explanation beyond "he froze up and lost control."
They share my opinion that drug testing of officers in a shooting is the only way to know the full story. They've handled their share of intoxicated, injured people but neither ever thought of shooting an unarmed person with their hands above their head. What makes a veteran officer "freeze up" over an intoxicated college kid?

a reply to: diggindirt

Didn't really want to get involved with this thread. I really just wanted to answer your question about paramedics not helping.

That said, I wasn't there so I cannot judge the officers actions.

However, I can say that I can envision this situation turning into a justified use of deadly force depending on how it transpired.

If the officer was called to the scene in regards to a violent, bloody man on drugs, and backed off to wait for help, what would happen to the officer if the suspect was able to hurt a citizen while waiting for said help?

Accusations of dereliction of duty? Lawsuits for not stopping the violent man?

Everyone says that "what ifs" don't matter. Well, let me tell you, "what ifs" ABSOLUTELY matter in law enforcement scenarios.

Again, I will restate (so I am not called a lying, corrupt, murderous pig), I am NOT saying this officer was justified. I was not there.

I can see how a situation like this could escalate to a justifiable use of force. I can also see how using deadly force could of been the wrong choice.

It all depends on the facts and circumstances of the event.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig
Thanks for your reply.
I can't get my head around that viewpoint. But I've never walked a mile in your shoes.

a reply to: diggindirt
I agree with your sentiments in the regard of no, I do not get high on drugs and come after a police officer after being hit with a flashlight and being tazed. My family does not do this either, which is why I have never had this issue with law enforcement.

Standardized EMS training doesn't allow to have Paramedics arriving on scene before law enforcement in violent situations. Heck, most situations are as Torquey described. Fights, intoxicated individuals, overdoses, any pediatric trauma, psychiatric / suicidal thoughts. No EMS agency in the USA teaches paramedics to get involved without the scene being declared safe by LEO.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I'm not sure you've ever encountered a killer cop you couldn't defend.

This story reminds me of the killing of Fouad Kaady



The man survived escaping a burning car, with severe burns, cuts and blood all over his body.
He was sitting Indian Style on the side of the road comatose when police arrived.

He did not respond to their commands naturally so they tased him.
He jumped on one of their police cars probably from being tazed so they shot him 5 times.

The officer in the video basically admitted he did not know what to do if the guy complied because he did not want the man anywhere near him.

He was hoping for the Body Bag Option and got it.

There were discrepancies from eye witness accounts vs what the police said.

Of course, an "Internal" investigation cleared the police of any misconduct.

originally posted by: Monger
a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I'm not sure you've ever encountered a killer cop you couldn't defend.

He has. As have I.

But cop haters like to ignore it. Makes the hate easier when you ignore facts

a reply to: Shamrock6

I knew I would be accused of being a murderous pig, or murderous pig supporter by at least one person.

It's funny though, I don't recall defending this officer at all.

However, I do recall saying that I could think of how the situation could of been justified, as well as not.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Yea but you didn't call this cop a murderous psychopath who needs to be hung drawn and quartered so clearly you're an apologist for him.

Duh.

originally posted by: Monger
a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I'm not sure you've ever encountered a killer cop you couldn't defend.

How on earth did you get that he was defending the cop in this case?

Again, I will restate (so I am not called a lying, corrupt, murderous pig), I am NOT saying this officer was justified. I was not there.

What is there in that statement that is ambiguous or would lead you to believe he was defending the cop? It seems to me that he made his position pretty clear and you are the one jumping to conclusions and screeching like a whipped pup.
Do you have anything other than one-liners to add to the discussion?

American cops are such cowards!

"O no a teens walking towards us with hes hand in there air! Must shoot him before I wet my panties!"

Cowards.


If britishs police shot kids for being abit rowdy there would be no one left here!

Grow some balls America.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: NthOther

the witness you decide to believe said the kid was acting "out of his mind" and was "really close range" to the officer. So someone acting out of their mind, bloody, unable to be stopped by tasers, going at the officer, with at least one witness thinking the man WAS aggressive.

Easy to be an armchair cop hater.

Which is why in the civilised world the police would have pinned him down and cuffed him then called a ambulence not sumarly executed him!

He was un freaking armed!

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: diggindirt

The evidence of drug use is in the OP, did you even read it?

Yeah shrooms, far from "hard core" drugs and not injectable.

originally posted by: Answer
Yay another ATS thread where everyone makes up their mind based on A SINGLE NEWS STORY before all the facts are out.

When are you people going to learn?

If the cop seems to be in the wrong, you trust the first source.

If it seems like a legitimate shoot, you say "I'll wait til I see all the evidence that the shooting was actually justified."

Bunch of double-standard embracing ninnies.

In the civilised world shooting a kid thats clearly unarmed is unjustifble.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: NthOther
The kid wasn't even armed.

Case closed, guess he posed absolutely no risk whatsoever then. You cop haters are ridiculous. Especially funny since there are so many terrible shootings where the cop should be locked up for life and you sit here and focus on all these shootings that are reasonable, destroying all your credibility on the actual bad shootings.

Sure he posed a risk, just not enough of a risk to warrent summary execution in a civilised country.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: diggindirt
or anything that would suggest aggression.

Are you unable to read?

"He (Morad) was like coming toward him like this all bloody from head to toe, it was quite a scene. He was acting very aggressive," said witness Bob Garner. "At that moment he (the officer) was solo and I think in his mind he had to make a decision, and his decision, I believe from what I saw, was two tasers and a fall from a second story did zero. 'I have no other choice,' that's what it appeared like to me."

The guy was high on HARDCORE drugs, was not following commands, kept going at the cop, tasers did nothing. Take some responsibility. The only one to blame is the guy who chose to create this situation via drug use.

Sorry but what the hell do you define as hardcore drugs?

When do "soft" core drugs become "hard" core drugs?

When they stop being tic tacs?

As someone who lives in the drug capital of england I find this amuseing as in my area we have had like one police shooting in resent memory and it was a gang banger with a shot gun. If we shot drug addicts round here there would be no one left!

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: EternalSolace


If a US Marshal from 1880 encountered an idiot on PCP during that time period, would they shoot them or beat them? My bet is they'd beat them into submission. It makes one wonder... were the peace keepers from the wild west made of sterner stuff than today's law enforcements.
Why would you guess that? I would say people from the era of gun fights in the street would shoot someone.

So you know that because of all the Westerns you've watched? The ones where they walk up to a drunk with a gun and just smack em on the head with the butt of their pistol and drag them off to the jail cell to sober up?

Please...

Ok then maybe a modern example british police who are quite capable of subdueing strung out people in my area without shooting them?